JLC reputation trend?

[psv]

JLC themself came up with the "watchmakers watch" thing. Idiotic.

JLC is a brand with great history and some classic, dare I say almost iconic, designs, like the Reverso or the Deep Sea Alarm. They have also played an important role as a movement maker, and they have supplied calibers to the biggest brands out there, like Audemars Piguet, Patek Philippe, etc.

Having said all of this - I think their brand management has been flawed. Over the years, they have been all over the place - too many models, limited editions this and that, too big watches or too small, and so forth. Their quality control has been a challenge at times - I have owned several JLCs that have had issues and had to go back to JLC for service (hence, brand new watches, their QA should never have released these watches for sale).

You have to buy JLCs because you love them and plan to keep them. Resell values are lower and they tend to be harder to offload as well.

Which model are you thinking of?

[KrakenCali]

Originally Posted by psv

JLC themself came up with the "watchmakers watch" thing. Idiotic.

JLC is a brand with great history and some classic, dare I say almost iconic, designs, like the Reverso or the Deep Sea Alarm. They have also played an important role as a movement maker, and they have supplied calibers to the biggest brands out there, like Audemars Piguet, Patek Philippe, etc.

Having said all of this - I think their brand management has been flawed. Over the years, they have been all over the place - too many models, limited editions this and that, too big watches or too small, and so forth. Their quality control has been a challenge at times - I have owned several JLCs that have had issues and had to go back to JLC for service (hence, brand new watches, their QA should never have released these watches for sale).

You have to buy JLCs because you love them and plan to keep them. Resell values are lower and they tend to be harder to offload as well.

Which model are you thinking of?

Ultra Thin Moon

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by KrakenCali

Just to clarify, are you saying JLC is the brand with the 50% service rate? If not, which brand are you referring to? Is JLC known for requiring frequent service?

No, it was Patek. Do a poll on JLC servicing here on TRF and see what comes back. i love the older JLC's, yet i'd pass on anything new.

Originally Posted by psv

JLC is a brand with great history and some classic, dare I say almost iconic, designs, like the Reverso or the Deep Sea Alarm.....

Wonderfully said! Alas, some very impressive brands have suffered at the hands and fate of 'new' corporate owners. Richemont purchased JLC in 2000.

Having said all of this - I think their brand management has been flawed. Over the years, they have been all over the place - too many models, limited editions this and that, too big watches or too small, and so forth.

This sounds very much like many Richemont's Panerai complaints. Have heard the Panerai guys give the exact same complaints.

Their quality control has been a challenge at times - I have owned several JLCs that have had issues and had to go back to JLC for service (hence, brand new watches, their QA should never have released these watches for sale).

This is why pre-2000 models may be the best way to go, yet then we may have to still deal with Richemont's servicing department (unless you know a truly talented watchmaker / independent who can also get parts).

[ts3]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

This sounds very much like many Richemont's Panerai complaints. Have heard the Panerai guys give the exact same complaints.

This is why pre-2000 models may be the best way to go, yet then we may have to still deal with Richemont's servicing department (unless you know a truly talented watchmaker / independent who can also get parts).

Same is true for IWC, unfortunately. In the 1990s they where competing with Rolex on some fronts and with high-end brands on others. Not so much today.

[Henrimontgomery]

JLC and many other brands from big groups (Richemont) are just coasting on their previous success and history.

Why would anybody care about the history of a brand is beyond me. The product you buy exists in the present, not the romanticised past. Marketing tactics all around to make you believe otherwise.

JLC service is bad. Going to their flagship boutique in Geneva, you face SA that are incompetent and are merely used car salesman in their behaviour. No savoir-être, lies, and just a deep desire to add you to the mailing list for their own KPIs.

Their watches are boring to no end. Round with leather bracelet. Wow. Their sports watches are gigantic and laughable in their design.

Make no mistake, when you buy a JLC; you help a wealthy executive pay for his holidays at the W hotel in Verbier.

[Sandpit]

I struggle with JLC, although it's a brand that does speak to me. Every time they get reasonably close to creating something truly brilliant they seem to miss opportunities.

Take the MUT moon enamel dial. Absolutely stunning, but made in ridiculously small quantities.




They've also missed out on a fantastic opportunity to make some sporty steel watches and almost everything is now focussed on dress. I've said this before, and I'll keep saying it, but I don't understand why they haven't remade the deep sea chrono or alarm.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by ts3

Same is true for IWC, unfortunately. In the 1990s they where competing with Rolex on some fronts and with high-end brands on others. Not so much today.

Kinda a side bar... I loved meeting IWC's Mr. Klaus back in 2000, so much passion and brilliance!

[vman]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

There used to be a time where we needed mechanical watches as a matter of practicality. In those days, we didn’t care if the watch we wore wasn’t a legendary design, it had a purpose to fulfill and it did, which is what we liked about it.

In those days, there were plenty of relatively simple watches with no particularly noteworthy movement in simple gold or steel cases with simple classic dials.

We needed them, and they worked for what we needed them for.

But times have changed. We no longer need a watch for its primary purpose. The time is visible on screens everywhere.

And so we no longer accept a watch with a movement that isn’t noteworthy, unless it has a design and history that’s strong enough to distinguish it. That’s why we all like the Rolex Sports Models, or Omega chronographs, or even Panerais. All these watches are so special in how they look that it doesn’t matter how their movement is made and finished.

On the other end of the spectrum, there are watches out there which have movements executed and finished to a fantastic level, beautiful artisan work, if not even sometimes art adjacent. Such movement shine no matter what one puts them into. And so even a relatively simple gold round watch will suffice.

Now what JLC does, at least on its volume products: it takes a movement executed to the level of an industrial brand, i.e. nice but far from extraordinary, and it puts those into basic round cases without much distinction.

And so in 2021, when we really don’t want something that combines the downsides of both worlds JLC fuses them into a product that would have been great in 1966, but has no relevance today.

The only exception is the Reverso, because that at least has a distinctive design.

Duometre? Extreme Lab?

When you're saying is correct when applied to lower-priced watches.

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by vman

Duometre? Extreme Lab?

When you're saying is correct when applied to lower-priced watches.

Sure, they can do high watchmaking when they want… and when they do, it’s often truly impressive. But I’m not sure that’s what defines the brand in my eyes.

[stockjock1975]

Speaking from personal experience as the owner of many brands from the likes of Patek, ALS, AP, FPJ, Rolex, Cartier, Omega….and yes, JLC - my Jaeger LeCoultre experience has been amazing. Not one bad thing to say about the brand or the products they produce.

The JLC Geophysic 1958 has become one of my most worn pieces in the collection.




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[athens7]

The Geophysic 1958 is, IMO, an example of JLC using its history and skills to great effect. Well bought!

Here's my Reverso Platinum Two from 2003. This watch still displays the influence of Günter Blümlein, who elevated several brands through his involvement. I prefer early ALS over current models for the same reason.

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Lol I would lose most Americans with that one but I’ll keep it in the arsenal for future use. Fur coat no knickers sounds like we are dealing with a flasher peto.

Who knew we just had to wait until this morning for the most appropriate horological application of “fur coat no knickers” ever. Thank you Patek, Tiffany and LVMH. Classy ladies.

(Sorry to pull this thread off topic again, but today is a special day).


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[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

Who knew we just had to wait until this morning for the most appropriate horological application of “fur coat no knickers” ever. Thank you Patek, Tiffany and LVMH. Classy ladies.

(Sorry to pull this thread off topic again, but today is a special day).


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Haha I see your point now.

[mongrelnomoad]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

Who knew we just had to wait until this morning for the most appropriate horological application of “fur coat no knickers” ever. Thank you Patek, Tiffany and LVMH. Classy ladies.

(Sorry to pull this thread off topic again, but today is a special day).


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The LVMH on the back (in the 2021) means it’s an official triple collab! PP x Tiffany x LVMH.

*sigh*

[1sttimerolex]

Originally Posted by 037

Except for the Reverso. Then flipping is highly encouraged by

Accurate.

Hahahahaha. I'm guilty of that myself

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

The LVMH on the back (in the 2021) means it’s an official triple collab! PP x Tiffany x LVMH.

*sigh*

Supreme must be pissed!

[utc66]

Agree! I’ve been looking at JLC for 15 years hoping something strikes my fancy but they are just not that exciting. I want to like them, I appreciate the movement, but just can’t do it.

Originally Posted by Nav01L

There used to be a time where we needed mechanical watches as a matter of practicality. In those days, we didn’t care if the watch we wore wasn’t a legendary design, it had a purpose to fulfill and it did, which is what we liked about it.

In those days, there were plenty of relatively simple watches with no particularly noteworthy movement in simple gold or steel cases with simple classic dials.

We needed them, and they worked for what we needed them for.

But times have changed. We no longer need a watch for its primary purpose. The time is visible on screens everywhere.

And so we no longer accept a watch with a movement that isn’t noteworthy, unless it has a design and history that’s strong enough to distinguish it. That’s why we all like the Rolex Sports Models, or Omega chronographs, or even Panerais. All these watches are so special in how they look that it doesn’t matter how their movement is made and finished.

On the other end of the spectrum, there are watches out there which have movements executed and finished to a fantastic level, beautiful artisan work, if not even sometimes art adjacent. Such movement shine no matter what one puts them into. And so even a relatively simple gold round watch will suffice.

Now what JLC does, at least on its volume products: it takes a movement executed to the level of an industrial brand, i.e. nice but far from extraordinary, and it puts those into basic round cases without much distinction.

And so in 2021, when we really don’t want something that combines the downsides of both worlds JLC fuses them into a product that would have been great in 1966, but has no relevance today.

The only exception is the Reverso, because that at least has a distinctive design.

[Justindo]

Originally Posted by GB-man

All cattle no hat

Haha! This!

I've only had one JLC service experience and it was terribly negative. The Texas service center is a butchery and they won't allow you to send your watch directly to Switzerland unless its vintage or one of their super expensive pieces, which is aggravating. It turned out okay in the end once it finally went back to Switzerland but the process took over a year. Other watch people I know have said the same.

As for the watches themselves, I think the Reverso and the Master lines are great pieces that offer a lot of value for the money in steel. Most of their watches are machined finished but they're the price of Rolex at MSRP so one can't complain.

I have a Reverso from the early aughts and a modern Reverso and have considered one from the Master Collection but I will say the service gives me pause.

[GreatCircle]

The last year released limited blue Memovox was a refreshing JLC and impossible to call monotone…



Did everybody already forget the uber complicated crazy complicated reverso this year?! Haute horology to the moon I guess.

[djnick]

the master thin ultra moon is a great bang for the buck dress watch

[Dr Process]

Tried on a Reverso Tribute duoface moon today. Beautiful reference.

However, had no idea they had so many issues with service. Thankful I stumbled across this thread. Cheers everyone for sharing your experience.

Maybe a less complicated reference is the way to go?!

[Justindo]

Originally Posted by Dr Process

Tried on a Reverso Tribute duoface moon today. Beautiful reference.

However, had no idea they had so many issues with service. Thankful I stumbled across this thread. Cheers everyone for sharing your experience.

Maybe a less complicated reference is the way to go?!

I don't know that the complications matter for service unless you're into the six figure range of JLCs.

[jed11]

I've always toyed with and have come close to adding a JLC throughout the years....reverso, master control line...but once I tried them on (and I've tried them on a lot), just couldn't get over the line and ended up going another direction. Yes, I agree with most that they do offer the 'good bang for your buck' factor but I wouldn't necessarily go with any watch if 'value' was the only thing it offered. It's a factor, yes, but it's not close to the main driver in my watch decision process. And 'value' is all relative.
May still end up adding something from JLC but there are other brands I would have ahead of it based on their current offering.

[cbalster]

They make great watches, and at current values in the pre-owned space, they're being given away compared to what other brands are commanding in prices.

https://www.europeanwatch.com/watch/...ial-39729.html

$8k for a JLC PC with an enamel dial? Perpetual calendars aren't my thing but this is a deal if I ever saw one!

[BLACKHORSE 6]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Have no personal experience with ultra moon. Yet yes...

Ahhh yes, life, in general, can be a type of paradox. The more you learn, the more you may realize you don't know. That's wisdom! Sure many of us made 'mistakes' or had faith in.... early on. Learn, read, study, and think for yourself instead of following 'herd mentality'.

The first priority, for me, is "is it reliable" for the way it will be used. Equally important is how is the service department and parts availability if things go awry. If your vaulted Swiss timepiece spends six months a year at service then is it 'worth it' for the troubles? A recent poll on TRF shows one 'high horology' brand seems to have a nearly 50% service rate(!).

i'd also ignore today's grey resale pricing, as over the decades we've seen peaks and valleys. Everyone i know agrees today's bubble is on the most massive of scale, far larger a bubble than we've ever experienced within the timepiece community.

Heck, even ignore what i'm saying PROVIDED you take time, read up, learn, and critically think for yourself.

WARNING: Some brands may get a bit confusing with truly great vintage pieces, yet 'new' ownership / leadership (or being swallowed by a conglomerate) could mean lousy modern models and, worse still, slow service times. This is the polar opposite of the experience that first built the reputation of the company many decades ago. We indeed should celebrate old models and longstanding brands, yet remember that their modern commercial counterpart with new leadership/owners may have very little to do with the early watchmakers and craftsmen who first built the company and gave it such a great reputation decades ago.

There are 'new' companies being created by very well-respected watchmakers. The current market is supporting many truly talented independents (usually producing less than 2500 pieces a year, to perhaps just 50 or less). I'd humbly suggest paying attention to these passionate craftsmen and learn why, and how, they bring their vision to reality. Hope some of this helps. jmho

Great post and sage advice!

I know this thread is about JLC... but what are your thoughts on Cartier? Also owned by Richemont Group but it seems that Cartier is returning to their roots. Bringing back classic designs, release new designs that stay true to the original DNA, and everyone seems to think that they are well made.

[stockjock1975]

Originally Posted by BLACKHORSE 6

Great post and sage advice!

I know this thread is about JLC... but what are your thoughts on Cartier? Also owned by Richemont Group but it seems that Cartier is returning to their roots. Bringing back classic designs, release new designs that stay true to the original DNA, and everyone seems to think that they are well made.

I own a fairly large collection consisting of JLC, Rolex, Omega, PP, AP, ALS….and Cartier. Having experienced them all, I will say that Cartier makes excellent, highly reliable pieces. I truly feel that my Cartier Santos is one on the best built watches I own. And it is bang-on to the second accurate. Can’t say enough good about what Cartier is doing!


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[Greglaw]

[QUOTE=psv;11849812]JLC themself came up with the "watchmakers watch" thing. Idiotic.

I have ready this phrase many times over the years in interviews and watch magazines and books. I am not challenging you, I would just like to know how you know JLC came up with this, and what documentation supports it?

Because next time I see it in an online article, I would love to address it in the comments section.

[Recondope]

[QUOTE=Greglaw;11857951]

Originally Posted by psv

JLC themself came up with the "watchmakers watch" thing. Idiotic.

I have ready this phrase many times over the years in interviews and watch magazines and books. I am not challenging you, I would just like to know how you know JLC came up with this, and what documentation supports it?

Because next time I see it in an online article, I would love to address it in the comments section.

Not exactly sure who came up with JLC's clever catchphrase but two of the most highly respected watchmakers in the world, Roger Smith and Philippe Dufour both wear a Rolex quite regularly, not a JLC. Similar to JLC's other slogan, "La Grande Maison," it is just typical marketing speak from a once great manufacturer that now mostly rests on its laurels with a few high dollar exceptions. Imho.