JLC reputation trend?

[KrakenCali]

I'm very new to high end watch shopping.

What has the JLC reputation trend been over the last few decades? Just looking for some seasoned vets to weigh in and complement the story I'm seeing in the resale market.

Thanks!

[sportsfan0704]

I think their reputation is great. Their watches aren’t for people who are into flipping, but they make some very classic pieces like the reverso obviously with great movements. The master collection is also great. So much versitility, class, and quality.

[GB-man]

All cattle no hat

[037]

Originally Posted by sportsfan0704

Their watches aren’t for people who are into flipping

Except for the Reverso. Then flipping is highly encouraged by design.

Originally Posted by GB-man

All cattle no hat

Accurate.

[acaixguard]

They are considered the watchmaker’s watchmaker for a reason. Great timepieces overall, especially the iconic Reverso. Their Master Control line is well regarded too, though the color schemes in their stainless models can appear a bit monotone in my opinion.

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by GB-man

All cattle no hat

You know more than 50% of those reading this thread will take this to mean the opposite of what you intend. 🤔

My personal go-to is “fur coat no knickers” which doesn’t seem to have the same effect when phrased as “knickers no fur coat”. Hmmm.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

You know more than 50% of those reading this thread will take this to mean the opposite of what you intend.

My personal go-to is “fur coat no knickers” which doesn’t seem to have the same effect when phrased as “knickers no fur coat”. Hmmm.

Lol I would lose most Americans with that one but I’ll keep it in the arsenal for future use. Fur coat no knickers sounds like we are dealing with a flasher peto.

[JR16]

Solid timepieces , but just boring for me . Had a ultra thin Moonphase- beautiful, accurate but got terribly bored of it and got crushed on resale value when I traded it.


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[enjoythemusic]

Has reliability gotten better?

[JohnGT3RS]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

You know more than 50% of those reading this thread will take this to mean the opposite of what you intend. 🤔

My personal go-to is “fur coat no knickers” which doesn’t seem to have the same effect when phrased as “knickers no fur coat”. Hmmm.

I don't know what either one of guys are talking about.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by JohnGT3RS

I don't know what either one of guys are talking about.

I offered jay 4 cows for his fur coat. He countered only if I removed my knickers and included them in the deal. I declined.

[ChetBaker]

Were you able to leave your hat on though?

[athens7]

There seems to be some indication that recent JLC products are not made to the same standards that they were 20 years ago. Considering resale values, it may be worthwhile to find a model from 1990-2010 if you desire a JLC. They are capable of extremely fine work (even today on the high end pieces). I have a 2003 Reverso and am very pleased with all aspects of the watch.

[Nav01L]

There used to be a time where we needed mechanical watches as a matter of practicality. In those days, we didn’t care if the watch we wore wasn’t a legendary design, it had a purpose to fulfill and it did, which is what we liked about it.

In those days, there were plenty of relatively simple watches with no particularly noteworthy movement in simple gold or steel cases with simple classic dials.

We needed them, and they worked for what we needed them for.

But times have changed. We no longer need a watch for its primary purpose. The time is visible on screens everywhere.

And so we no longer accept a watch with a movement that isn’t noteworthy, unless it has a design and history that’s strong enough to distinguish it. That’s why we all like the Rolex Sports Models, or Omega chronographs, or even Panerais. All these watches are so special in how they look that it doesn’t matter how their movement is made and finished.

On the other end of the spectrum, there are watches out there which have movements executed and finished to a fantastic level, beautiful artisan work, if not even sometimes art adjacent. Such movement shine no matter what one puts them into. And so even a relatively simple gold round watch will suffice.

Now what JLC does, at least on its volume products: it takes a movement executed to the level of an industrial brand, i.e. nice but far from extraordinary, and it puts those into basic round cases without much distinction.

And so in 2021, when we really don’t want something that combines the downsides of both worlds JLC fuses them into a product that would have been great in 1966, but has no relevance today.

The only exception is the Reverso, because that at least has a distinctive design.

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I offered jay 4 cows for his fur coat. He countered only if I removed my knickers and included them in the deal. I declined.

And then we just all decided to go have a pint.

There were no arrests and no animals were harmed.

(Are we still talking about JLC?)


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[swish77]

Originally Posted by athens7

There seems to be some indication that recent JLC products are not made to the same standards that they were 20 years ago. Considering resale values, it may be worthwhile to find a model from 1990-2010 if you desire a JLC. They are capable of extremely fine work (even today on the high end pieces). I have a 2003 Reverso and am very pleased with all aspects of the watch.

Yes, I've heard this too. I was excited about the new Master Control line, until I ordered directly from JLC (and promptly returned) a "new" Master Control Calendar that arrived nicked up without plastics and on a worn strap. (I believe I got a demo watch that they tried to pass off as new.)

Then I thought about getting the Master Control Chronograph Calendar, but then I stumbled upon this thread:

https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/n...issue.5270064/

[JakeK]

I have what i consider 4 tiers of watches; Seiko Alpinist, Omega SMP 300, JLC Master Geographic in rose gold, and the VC Overseas.

The JLC is head and shoulders above the Omega in terms of fit, finishing and overall product delivery. It is in my opinion at least 2 tiers above the Seamaster and 1 below the VC.

I think they are an incredible maison with truly quality products that if bought pre-owned are absolute steals.

[RoscoPico]

Originally Posted by swish77

Yes, I've heard this too. I was excited about the new Master Control line, until I ordered directly from JLC (and promptly returned) a "new" Master Control Calendar that arrived nicked up without plastics and on a worn strap. (I believe I got a demo watch that they tried to pass off as new.)

Then I thought about getting the Master Control Chronograph Calendar, but then I stumbled upon this thread:

https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/n...issue.5270064/

my overall take from that thread is that the issue was a very small instance and just on that one reference. and those who faced the issue would buy JLC again

[RoscoPico]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

There used to be a time where we needed mechanical watches as a matter of practicality. In those days, we didn’t care if the watch we wore wasn’t a legendary design, it had a purpose to fulfill and it did, which is what we liked about it.

In those days, there were plenty of relatively simple watches with no particularly noteworthy movement in simple gold or steel cases with simple classic dials.

We needed them, and they worked for what we needed them for.

But times have changed. We no longer need a watch for its primary purpose. The time is visible on screens everywhere.

And so we no longer accept a watch with a movement that isn’t noteworthy, unless it has a design and history that’s strong enough to distinguish it. That’s why we all like the Rolex Sports Models, or Omega chronographs, or even Panerais. All these watches are so special in how they look that it doesn’t matter how their movement is made and finished.

On the other end of the spectrum, there are watches out there which have movements executed and finished to a fantastic level, beautiful artisan work, if not even sometimes art adjacent. Such movement shine no matter what one puts them into. And so even a relatively simple gold round watch will suffice.

Now what JLC does, at least on its volume products: it takes a movement executed to the level of an industrial brand, i.e. nice but far from extraordinary, and it puts those into basic round cases without much distinction.

And so in 2021, when we really don’t want something that combines the downsides of both worlds JLC fuses them into a product that would have been great in 1966, but has no relevance today.

The only exception is the Reverso, because that at least has a distinctive design.

I do agree with this, but more importantly, I just don't think JLC ever nailed it on advertising. It's such a fickle thing to become and stay popular after all isn't it ? I don't really equate quality to popularity at all

[ajw45]

All downhill since Jerome Lambert left as CEO in 2013. During his time JLC did epic things, Duometre line, Compressor line, AMVOX, Extreme Lab, Navy Seals, all sorts of crazy stuff. After he left they went without a CEO for years cause Richemont and just treaded water until the new CEO joined and she doubled down on the Reverso and ladies pieces while the entire industry moved to sports watches. Oops.
I think JLC has one if the best back catalogs, an awesome brand to buy pre-owned, but the modern JLC is uninspiring.... To me. They are selling truckloads of Reversos in China so what do I know.

Generally, I think Richemont is slowly killing all their brands, from limited edition VC rubber straps to Odysseus purchase requirements, to basically everything bad about Panerai, JLC suffers a bit from cost cutting in the mid/low end and then ridiculous pricing and poor service at the high end. I'll never forgive JLC for sending my platinum Duometre to the same Richemont service center as eta based Panerais and it coming back totally fubared... Twice.

[scarlet knight]

I own a Reverso. Previously owned a Geophysique, MUT Moon and a Reverso Tribute to 1931. I think they are great watches. I never had a problem.

[cfree011]

I love JLC; however I agree that their best pieces were pre-2012. That is when they really pushed innovation.

I have a rose gold master compressor diving chrono and it is the best watch in my collections. Fit and finish is way above my Rolex SD43, and the bezel feel is awesome.

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[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by ajw45

Generally, I think Richemont is slowly killing all their brands.....

Interesting, that's the conclusion I've come to recently, so this week decided to eliminate Richemont brands from my want lists. Bailed on a 42mm 'limited edition' boutique bronzo, Richemont is asking crazy money for, and let's be honest, a very basic movement and case, plus yeah the dial section is too small / imbalanced yet that personal preference.

Might get a Bell & Ross bronze, wife and i agree it's better looking, plus it has a more functional bezel at 1/3rd the price of Richemont's Panerai.

Agree with others, look for older JLC. Same with Patek, look at Geneva seal models, or better still pre-1970s high complications if you can.

[KrakenCali]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Interesting, that's the conclusion I've come to recently, so this week decided to eliminate Richemont brands from my want lists. Bailed on a 42mm 'limited edition' boutique bronzo, Richemont is asking crazy money for, and let's be honest, a very basic movement and case, plus yeah the dial section is too small / imbalanced yet that personal preference.

Might get a Bell & Ross bronze, wife and i agree it's better looking, plus it has a more functional bezel at 1/3rd the price of Richemont's Panerai.

Agree with others, look for older JLC. Same with Patek, look at Geneva seal models, or better still pre-1970s high complications if you can.

How do newbs like me differentiate between basic and more advanced movements? The ultra moon looks amazing to me, but for $10k, I'm worried I'll grow out of it as I learn more about watches.

[JohnGT3RS]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

And then we just all decided to go have a pint.

There were no arrests and no animals were harmed.

(Are we still talking about JLC?)


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I had some beers to see if I could understand what you guys were talking about. it did not help. I still want a Reverso.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by KrakenCali

How do newbs like me differentiate between basic and more advanced movements? The ultra moon looks amazing to me, but for $10k, I'm worried I'll grow out of it as I learn more about watches.

Have no personal experience with ultra moon. Yet yes...

Ahhh yes, life, in general, can be a type of paradox. The more you learn, the more you may realize you don't know. That's wisdom! Sure many of us made 'mistakes' or had faith in.... early on. Learn, read, study, and think for yourself instead of following 'herd mentality'.

The first priority, for me, is "is it reliable" for the way it will be used. Equally important is how is the service department and parts availability if things go awry. If your vaulted Swiss timepiece spends six months a year at service then is it 'worth it' for the troubles? A recent poll on TRF shows one 'high horology' brand seems to have a nearly 50% service rate(!).

i'd also ignore today's grey resale pricing, as over the decades we've seen peaks and valleys. Everyone i know agrees today's bubble is on the most massive of scale, far larger a bubble than we've ever experienced within the timepiece community.

Heck, even ignore what i'm saying PROVIDED you take time, read up, learn, and critically think for yourself.

WARNING: Some brands may get a bit confusing with truly great vintage pieces, yet 'new' ownership / leadership (or being swallowed by a conglomerate) could mean lousy modern models and, worse still, slow service times. This is the polar opposite of the experience that first built the reputation of the company many decades ago. We indeed should celebrate old models and longstanding brands, yet remember that their modern commercial counterpart with new leadership/owners may have very little to do with the early watchmakers and craftsmen who first built the company and gave it such a great reputation decades ago.

There are 'new' companies being created by very well-respected watchmakers. The current market is supporting many truly talented independents (usually producing less than 2500 pieces a year, to perhaps just 50 or less). I'd humbly suggest paying attention to these passionate craftsmen and learn why, and how, they bring their vision to reality. Hope some of this helps. jmho

[swish77]

Originally Posted by RoscoPico

my overall take from that thread is that the issue was a very small instance and just on that one reference. and those who faced the issue would buy JLC again

It was a problem on all of the Master Chronos when they first came out, so not a small instance. Apparently the latest batch includes a fix.

David S. Williams had one for sale earlier this year that I was thinking about buying. I called him and explained the potential jumping-hand problem on this model, so he tested it. And yup, it had the same issue as mentioned in that thread.

[KrakenCali]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Have no personal experience with ultra moon. Yet yes...

Ahhh yes, life, in general, can be a type of paradox. The more you learn, the more you may realize you don't know. That's wisdom! Sure many of us made 'mistakes' or had faith in.... early on. Learn, read, study, and think for yourself instead of following 'herd mentality'.

The first priority, for me, is "is it reliable" for the way it will be used. Equally important is how is the service department and parts availability if things go awry. If your vaulted Swiss timepiece spends six months a year at service then is it 'worth it' for the troubles? A recent poll on TRF shows one 'high horology' brand seems to have a nearly 50% service rate(!).

i'd also ignore today's grey resale pricing, as over the decades we've seen peaks and valleys. Everyone i know agrees today's bubble is on the most massive of scale, far larger a bubble than we've ever experienced within the timepiece community.

Heck, even ignore what i'm saying PROVIDED you take time, read up, learn, and critically think for yourself.

WARNING: Some brands may get a bit confusing with truly great vintage pieces, yet 'new' ownership / leadership (or being swallowed by a conglomerate) could mean lousy modern models and, worse still, slow service times. This is the polar opposite of the experience that first built the reputation of the company many decades ago. We indeed should celebrate old models and longstanding brands, yet remember that their modern commercial counterpart with new leadership/owners may have very little to do with the early watchmakers and craftsmen who first built the company and gave it such a great reputation decades ago.

There are 'new' companies being created by very well-respected watchmakers. The current market is supporting many truly talented independents (usually producing less than 2500 pieces a year, to perhaps just 50 or less). I'd humbly suggest paying attention to these passionate craftsmen and learn why, and how, they bring their vision to reality. Hope some of this helps. jmho

Just to clarify, are you saying JLC is the brand with the 50% service rate? If not, which brand are you referring to? Is JLC known for requiring frequent service?

[RoscoPico]

Originally Posted by swish77

It was a problem on all of the Master Chronos when they first came out, so not a small instance. Apparently the latest batch includes a fix.

David S. Williams had one for sale earlier this year that I was thinking about buying. I called him and explained the potential jumping-hand problem on this model, so he tested it. And yup, it had the same issue as mentioned in that thread.

ah a bummer to hear. I do love JLC, and am now curious to know which year my master control is.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

You know more than 50% of those reading this thread will take this to mean the opposite of what you intend. 🤔

My personal go-to is “fur coat no knickers” which doesn’t seem to have the same effect when phrased as “knickers no fur coat”. Hmmm.

More like “all bite, no bark” in this context