ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
25 May 2012, 03:42 AM | #31 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Here and there
Posts: 935
|
Hope it works out of you.
IMO you deserve a full refund, no matter of elapsed time… especially on a misrepresented watch (by mistake, I'm sure) Surely Steve with make it right though. |
25 May 2012, 03:54 AM | #32 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kingstown
Posts: 58,281
|
|
25 May 2012, 04:08 AM | #33 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Here and there
Posts: 935
|
|
25 May 2012, 04:14 AM | #34 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK
Watch: SS White Daytona
Posts: 1,060
|
Whether the warranty time has elapsed or not the seller should offer a full refund especially on this watch.
Period |
25 May 2012, 04:15 AM | #35 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Real Name: Roscoe
Location: florida
Watch: 16618
Posts: 646
|
You are using the forum to manipulate your desired outcome which isn't in accordance with the terms stated in the sale
|
25 May 2012, 04:16 AM | #36 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kingstown
Posts: 58,281
|
|
25 May 2012, 04:18 AM | #37 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 3,177
|
Quote:
__________________
"Oh, you give a f****' aspirin a headache, pal!" |
|
25 May 2012, 04:24 AM | #38 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 3,177
|
Let's stop throwing around the word "misrepresented." The ad doesn't say original or that the dial came w/ the watch. I don't recall, but I don't think the conversation as to oriignality came up (correct me if I'm wrong) until AFTER the sale had happened. And even then, what Steve told the OP personally is his opinion only that it is original to the watch. Reasonable minds can differ as to whether that dial should have come with the watch, unless this is one of those rare vintage Rolex bright lines?
__________________
"Oh, you give a f****' aspirin a headache, pal!" |
25 May 2012, 04:42 AM | #39 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Real Name: Martin
Location: UK
Posts: 7,023
|
Quote:
As I said before this could all be a misunderstanding and its not directed at Steve but more to your general comment on homework. |
|
25 May 2012, 04:56 AM | #40 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Farnham
Posts: 43
|
If it is sold as a gloss 5513 with matt dial fitted then I believe that would be fair. I would certainly not have been interested.
As there is a considerable difference in value between a genuine matt submariner and a gloss submariner with a dial swap then it is being misrepresented. I love the look of the watch, but i have been sold one thing when it is actually something else. Believe me nobody would be happier if someone could tell me that 8.67mil Submariners were matt! PS I have been emailed by a forum member who informed me that a lot of 8.5mil, and onwards, gloss dials were swapped out under warranty because of cracking and replaced with MK III service dials. Could this explain the anomaly? |
25 May 2012, 04:59 AM | #41 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 3,177
|
Quote:
Ah well - if I were the seller I'd make it right and take it back so everyone were happy; don't see, apart from the US customs issue (kinda a big deal), why that can't happen. But that is a decisions between the parties to this private transaction.
__________________
"Oh, you give a f****' aspirin a headache, pal!" |
|
25 May 2012, 05:46 AM | #42 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Real Name: Roscoe
Location: florida
Watch: 16618
Posts: 646
|
...
|
25 May 2012, 07:23 AM | #43 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North America
Posts: 11,066
|
Steve M. clearly states the linked FS ad:
"5 day no questions asked return policy (no time limit on issues of authenticity,However the odds on there bieng any non Rolex parts are next to zero,I thouroghly inspect each and every watch that I sell)" There is considerable testimony stating that dial doesn't appear to be correct and/or original with regards to the serial number of this particular watch, thus it is now up to Steve to prove the contrary at this point in my opinion. If he doesn't want to get involved in that process he should simply refund the watch per his stated refund policy. It is as simple as that in my book. Otherwise it should be noted to presumptive buyers that Steve M doesn't adhere to his own policies and stated business rules, however, I'm fairly certain that the parties will work this one out as one's reputation is all that counts in this business. Best of luck and keep us posted. |
25 May 2012, 07:25 AM | #44 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Real Name: Martin
Location: UK
Posts: 7,023
|
Quote:
|
|
25 May 2012, 07:50 AM | #45 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bordeaux
Posts: 70
|
|
25 May 2012, 08:12 AM | #46 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Real Name: Bob
Location: Dallas, Texas
Watch: Daytona Meteorite
Posts: 3,413
|
Gosh,this is a disappointing story. I hope Steve weighs in here soon, and provides a satisfactory alternative. There is risk now in shipping back to the US, which makes the situation murky for both parties.
__________________
meteor flying to Earth onto my wrist... 116509 Daytona Meteorite, 116520 Daytona Black, 116710 GMTIIC, 16013 DATEJUST, CARTIER SANTOS 100 W20090X8, IWC Big Pilot, IWC Top Gun "Everything works out in the end. If it hasn't worked out, it's not the end." |
25 May 2012, 08:30 AM | #47 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 6,382
|
No intentional offence, and I apologize in advance, but...
Sorry for the interruption, but where does it state "matte" in the advert.
I see only "maxi." "FS-Full set 5513 MAXI Submariner ND..box-papers-booklets-band..etc..7k BEAUTIFUL is too understated to describe MY feelings about this watch..but most of you know that the 5513 has been my favorite watch to sell/collect and heck..even just to talk about! the 5513 was really the first sports rolex that was produced in abundanced and priced so that even the working class gents of the time could realistically afford to buy one(with a tiny bit of saving upo) It has the widest and most varied spectrum of dial styles and is just affordable enough to attempt to own one of each! anyways..here we have a great example 5513 with nice thick case,nice strong movement keeping good time,nerly mint dial with lovely light yellow patina on the matching hands and hour plots maxi dial 8 million series case 93150 bracelet box (inner and outer) papers booklets paperwork envelope and finally a signed photograph of the famouse wound that tried to annihilate the Mulholland!..lol (just kidding..you DONT want to see it!) 7K u.s. currency and includes Insured world-wide shipping(international customers may experience some difficulties in returns ,so please ask any questions before you commit..I dont mind answering them,it's my job!..lol) 5 day no questions asked return policy (no time limit on issues of authenticity,However the odds on there bieng any non Rolex parts are next to zero,I thouroghly inspect each and every watch that I sell)" Regards, |
25 May 2012, 09:06 AM | #48 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 3,177
|
Quote:
__________________
"Oh, you give a f****' aspirin a headache, pal!" |
|
25 May 2012, 09:49 AM | #49 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North America
Posts: 11,066
|
I realized that as well, but then we're opening a whole another can of worm. I know Steve, and a bunch of other sellers, on VRF argue that a Rolex can be constructed by various parts and be sold as "original" and "authentic" while others, like me, feel that it is a bit of a Franken-watch, cobbled together by parts as the watch actually never came out of Bienne factory in the first place. But back to this thread.
My view on this particular deal, as the fact appears until now, hasn't changed. |
25 May 2012, 09:56 AM | #50 |
2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Real Name: David Farkas
Location: Los Angeles
Watch: 116610, 5712/1A
Posts: 8,057
|
As many have stated when it comes to vintage watches many things are argued even amongst top experts when dealing with "originality" and "authenticity"
When buying vintage pieces it is good to ask the seller many questions regarding what their views of originality and authenticity is when it comes to vintage pieces in general. This will give the buyer an idea if the sellers views of originality and authenticity parallel theirs Hope SM chimes in soon |
25 May 2012, 10:15 AM | #51 | |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 6,382
|
Quote:
I e-mailed him about his "wound picture." That's all. |
|
25 May 2012, 10:51 AM | #52 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Real Name: Nikos
Location: Florida
Watch: Rolex GMT 16750
Posts: 8,415
|
Quote:
As for the paint defect thing and service dials........I am of the opinion that the very 1st batch of WG glossy dials had paint defects and spider cracked. They were replaced with the newer WG glossy dials that did not have this defect. Never was a WG glossy dial replaced with a matte during a Rolex service its the other way around. Keep in mind in the mid 80's when these were introduced most people wanted the NEW look and matte was the old style. No way a person that bought a NEW style watch would see Rolex putting the OLD style dial acceptable to them at the time.
__________________
Follow Me On Instagram @nickgogas Original Owner ROLEX 16750 GMT Daily Wearer For Over 13,000 Days And Counting |
|
25 May 2012, 11:37 AM | #53 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 3,177
|
Quote:
__________________
"Oh, you give a f****' aspirin a headache, pal!" |
|
25 May 2012, 11:52 AM | #54 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Real Name: Eric
Location: Hong Kong
Watch: 1665
Posts: 1,495
|
Quote:
I have to agree that much due diligence is required before buying vintage, but I also empathize that the buyer relied on a 'trusted' seller to be upfront and knowledgable of what was sold. As a 'trusted' seller and known vintage dealer there should have been more transparent communication and knowledge passed throughout the sale. Just my 2 cents.
__________________
_____________ All GREEN |
|
25 May 2012, 12:02 PM | #55 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 3,177
|
Quote:
I don't think he's playing semantics with his words - he is clear this is a genuine Rolex product or he'll take it back anytime. He may or may not be passing judgement on the originality of the watch.
__________________
"Oh, you give a f****' aspirin a headache, pal!" |
|
25 May 2012, 12:18 PM | #56 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Real Name: Pep
Location: Miami
Watch: GMTIIc, Pam320
Posts: 2,773
|
Quote:
I read through the whole thread and while I know NOTHING about vintage watches let alone sales, I will not give an opinion to that regard. However, since you have offered your opinion on the matter when you don't have a dog in this fight (pressumably), I feel that you could receive opinions on your posts. You are coming off a bit defensive and strong for a member that himself has many watches on the For Sale forum. I, for one, would be scared to enter into any business dealing with you when it is clear you will stonewall the buyer should there be any discrepancy. The seller is ALWAYS going to be a seller and should ALWAYS make the customer happy. Unless the buyer is trying to scam you, you should ALWAYS make sure the buyer is happy. It is sound business practice. I have been in business since I left high school and it has always been my business philosophy which has carried me fairly far. Take what I say for what it is worth and not a criticism. Step back and do yourself a favor. I highly doubt you are gaining any customer's trust with your posts. Notice the Moscos, DavidSWs etc have steered clear of this controversy like they do all others.
__________________
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -Benjamin Franklin Prick #8 |
|
25 May 2012, 12:29 PM | #57 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SoCal
Watch: Rolex
Posts: 1,308
|
This seems to be quite a mess. If it were me, I would exchange the watch for something else that satisfies as being original and authentic and chalk it up as a lessoned learned. Vintage can indeed be tricky. I'd bet it's safe to say that there are a lot more vintage pieces out there with replacement service parts or "swapped" parts than all original examples. There is just no way to know, even if everything on the watch is period correct. Unless you buy from the original owner or you are the original owner.
That isn't to say that the seller shouldn't stand by his product...especially a well known, respected seller. If something was marketed with specifics and priced accordingly, then that is what should have been delivered. The seller is saying the dial is original to the watch and I suppose he's challenging anyone to come up with hard facts to say otherwise. Would Rolex know what dial originally came with this watch? Perhaps a service center could research that for you if you took it in for service. |
25 May 2012, 12:39 PM | #58 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Real Name: Vincent
Location: LON HKG SYD
Posts: 1,236
|
Quote:
You need to be upfront and knowledgeable of what was sold, whether new or vintage. |
|
25 May 2012, 01:24 PM | #59 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: france
Posts: 796
|
This watch was sold for the price of an original matt dial 5513, this is a first indication of how to construe the seller's ad.
When the buyer sent him an e.mail about the dial being original to the watch or not, the seller asserts it is an original matt dial 5513, right? He does not argue that his ad did not mention the word "original", that the buyer should have done his "homework" or whatever BS, right? So what exact word is written or not in his ad is no more relevant, as this is a binding assertion that clearly gives us the correct interpretation of the seller's ad. By asserting the watch has an original matt dial, the seller commits himself to refund the buyer if it is not true. Period. |
25 May 2012, 01:47 PM | #60 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Real Name: Roscoe
Location: florida
Watch: 16618
Posts: 646
|
Quote:
You have no idea who you are talking to. I have more watches then most sellers here. I have a Shop in my community where my reputation is strong and flawless so I could care less if you wouldn't buy a watch from me as I don't need the forum to sell anything. Steve is my friend and I myself have just went through a ordeal shipping a watch into the USA and had it stopped by customs and had to pay Duties and taxes which is exactly what will happen to Steve if this fella who didn't do his homework before he bought a watch and then didn't bother to inspect it for a month returns the watch... So say what you will at the end of the day most of the people reading this will still be a wanna be or a hater and I will still have 64 Rolex watches. |
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
*Banners
Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.