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Old 4 February 2024, 09:09 AM   #91
JMac6
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The only response I ever got after my initial inquiry in April was an email asking if I was interested in the Red Gold version. I replied that I was but I haven't received a response since. I sent them an email a few days ago with a much longer explanation of why Iíd love to own one of their watches to hopefully see if I get some kind of update.

I really donít think I have a good chance. I only initially reached out later in the day after the first reveal/announcement. I just wasnít quick enough.

I also wish theyíd reconsider and just keep this series going. I know thatís not the plan but it would be nice just so I can get one lol.

Hope you get some good news.
I am in the same boat. I am maintaining optimism. Rose gold and black, if that is the combo, is perhaps my number 1.

If he is making 99 per series and 5 or so metals, that is a lot of watches. This community is smaller than I think we realize. That point makes me optimistic. Less optimistic is that we received the same email and the watch is so hot. I do get the sense that people are losing interest in the hobby, at least relative to 1-2 years ago.
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Old 4 February 2024, 09:31 AM   #92
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I am in the same boat. I am maintaining optimism. Rose gold and black, if that is the combo, is perhaps my number 1.

If he is making 99 per series and 5 or so metals, that is a lot of watches. This community is smaller than I think we realize. That point makes me optimistic. Less optimistic is that we received the same email and the watch is so hot. I do get the sense that people are losing interest in the hobby, at least relative to 1-2 years ago.

In an interview, he did mention the titanium edition is planned for 99 pieces but likely to be a lot less. (60 was lightly mentioned)


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Old 4 February 2024, 09:32 AM   #93
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I am in the same boat. I am maintaining optimism. Rose gold and black, if that is the combo, is perhaps my number 1.

If he is making 99 per series and 5 or so metals, that is a lot of watches. This community is smaller than I think we realize. That point makes me optimistic. Less optimistic is that we received the same email and the watch is so hot. I do get the sense that people are losing interest in the hobby, at least relative to 1-2 years ago.
I hope youíre right but thereís a lot of people out there with disposable income. The watch market has definitely cooled but Iím unsure how much itís affected the independent scene. All I know is I want one.
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Old 4 February 2024, 09:47 AM   #94
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I havenít see one in person but from all the photos and videos that have been shared I agree about the value proposition of these watches. Itís getting close to my limit for what I can spend but even if it went a little higher Iíd still immediately jump at the chance to get one.

I absolutely think you should reach out. It doesnít hurt to try.
The sousciption edition with the zirconinum case for 50k CHF was definitely a bargain.

I am sure the market has slowed down even for independents. But anecdotal experience also suggests that independents are still in short supply. A friend and my wife both failed to get a FPJ allocation this year when I thought it would have been a given. And the wait for a Voutilainen just seems to be getting longer and longer.
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Old 4 February 2024, 12:41 PM   #95
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I hope youíre right but thereís a lot of people out there with disposable income. The watch market has definitely cooled but Iím unsure how much itís affected the independent scene. All I know is I want one.
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The sousciption edition with the zirconinum case for 50k CHF was definitely a bargain.

I am sure the market has slowed down even for independents. But anecdotal experience also suggests that independents are still in short supply. A friend and my wife both failed to get a FPJ allocation this year when I thought it would have been a given. And the wait for a Voutilainen just seems to be getting longer and longer.
On balance, the watch market has unquestionably slowed down. Specific to independents, the market may be slowing a little bit but it is definitely hot and any slowdown is pretty imperceptible (well, at auction things have seemed to slow down - although the market, in my opinion, has shifted from the old guard to the young guns). I am not sure whether or not we have reached the peak but if we have not, I bet the peak is near.

I imagine that my experience is similar to others: I am increasingly disillusioned by the mainstream brands (price, quality, service, you name it), and have found that the experience with independents is far more satisfying. I do not think the market for independents is healthy right now - a decade wait is not a good thing - but I think that more people will enter the market, supply will increase, etc. Personally, I think that independents are the future of high end watchmaking. I guess what I am trying to say - I think that the market is still hot but I think it will normalize in a few years. Guys like SB and even RR are young, and I think people will have an opportunity to get a watch from him - whether it is the SBCA or something else - in the not too distant future.

Re: Voutilainen - I think that he, among many, many others, is just way behind. I have a built spot coming up and there is just no way it will be on time. I don't particularly care, but I think that the wait time is, in part, to satisfy the influx of people that applied 2 years ago.

The one place I do think independents could improve is customer service. Or at least being communicative. Everyone has been super pleasant, but I have only dealt with one independent who kills it in the communication game. But hey, I can forgive the communication issues.
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Old 4 February 2024, 03:41 PM   #96
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Nice watch indeed, on a screen. No way in hell i'm spending that kind of money on a random independent.

I'm expecting all these "independents" to be flushed out in a couple of years, joining the ranks of other well established independent brands such as Rolex, AP, Patek and the likes.
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Old 4 February 2024, 05:20 PM   #97
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We needed a picture this Sunday morning. For me, the future is bright with the indies. Some will get displaced and others will move up the ranks. All are young with a lot of creations inbound. Enjoy. Pick what you like and donít listen to the hype.


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Old 4 February 2024, 05:31 PM   #98
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We needed a picture this Sunday morning. For me, the future is bright with the indies. Some will get displaced and others will move up the ranks. All are young with a lot of creations inbound. Enjoy. Pick what you like and donít listen to the hype.

This belongs to the Musťe d'Orsay

Can't imagine waking up to this every morning.
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Old 4 February 2024, 07:27 PM   #99
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Looks like cracked wheat that is commonly used in tabbouleh
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Old 4 February 2024, 07:51 PM   #100
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@John Doyle - can you please stop posting in the independents threads. I have seen you dump on anything from Ferrier to Moser and now Simon Brette. We get it, you want Rolex and Patek. That’s fine - but let the passionate collectors here have a civil discussion without your silly interjections. They add zero value and just get on people’s nerves. Thank you.
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Old 4 February 2024, 10:19 PM   #101
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I'm not dumping / trashing on independents. In fact i like how many look (except Journe, i hate them all due to overall design philosophy and they all look the same to me) including the Simon Brette as you can tell from my original post. I am just not financially comfortable to drop such an amount of money on something that I am not sure would still be around X years down the line.
Google cracked wheat you'll see that I am right.
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Old 4 February 2024, 10:48 PM   #102
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You’re making cracked wheat sound like it’s a bad thing.
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Old 5 February 2024, 12:34 AM   #103
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At $100k, hardly a bargain. Plenty of options including LMs from his previous employer that I would argue are visually more impressive (all subjective) and done to similar standards.

Reviews from owners are helpful but almost always biased as any negativity could potentially tank the brand and investment. That is what old school brands offer: resilience.

I am a huge fan of indies and wish him all the luck. I hope he ends up being real deal but that is far from certain at this point. Let’s see if he can bring anything new to horology. So far he has done an exceptional job at repackaging old school virtues.
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Old 5 February 2024, 01:03 AM   #104
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I’m very big on Simon Brette but there is definitely a discussion to be had about independents and longevity. Even MB&F was struggling up until a few years ago. There’s obviously no guarantees in the watch industry. What’s successful today can be gone tomorrow. It also doesn’t help that the watch industry overall is on shaky ground right now.

I can’t speak for any current or potential Simon Brette owners but part of my interest in the brand besides just the people and watch is the idea of getting into a young independent. There is an obvious risk with this. What if I get a watch from them and they are out of business in 5 years? Will I still truly love the watch then? Or will I be upset that it’s worth significantly less and that I also can’t send it back to them directly to get serviced?

I’ve thought about this before and still think about it from time to time and to me it’s worth the roll of the dice. I don’t mean to minimize the cost involved. These are not cheap watches. But for me, for what I want to do with my collection. This potential purchase makes sense. That’s what everyone here is doing on an individual level.

The cracked wheat comment was funny btw. Just like I can’t get past the genitalia looking movement on Kudoke watches, you can’t unsee the cracked wheat. I’m ok with cracked wheat. I think it looks amazing.
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Old 5 February 2024, 02:21 AM   #105
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I'm not dumping / trashing on independents. In fact i like how many look (except Journe, i hate them all due to overall design philosophy and they all look the same to me) including the Simon Brette as you can tell from my original post. I am just not financially comfortable to drop such an amount of money on something that I am not sure would still be around X years down the line.
Google cracked wheat you'll see that I am right.
Curious on which independents do you like enough to have owned? BTW, what is the Journe design philosophy which you are referring to? I actually think all Rolex and AP look the same. AP literally have two lines and only one is bought by most people. Among AP, Rolex and Patek, only Patek can promise to service your watch indefinitely into the future.

Also, nothing is certain in the future. Lehman was a hundred years old firm and it vaporized in days. And that was an investment and we have a hobby here which should matter less.. One famous collector (garyg?) said before that you cannot afford it if you cannot afford to break it. Only put what you are comfortable to lose in a hobby.
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Old 5 February 2024, 02:31 AM   #106
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At $100k, hardly a bargain. Plenty of options including LMs from his previous employer that I would argue are visually more impressive (all subjective) and done to similar standards.

Reviews from owners are helpful but almost always biased as any negativity could potentially tank the brand and investment. That is what old school brands offer: resilience.

I am a huge fan of indies and wish him all the luck. I hope he ends up being real deal but that is far from certain at this point. Letís see if he can bring anything new to horology. So far he has done an exceptional job at repackaging old school virtues.
The concave black polished screws, wolf teeth gearing and movement aesthetics sold me. On top of him being a really nice guy with the same philosophy to credit the artisans who helped him create the watch as Max at MB&F.

Agreed that a few of the new comers are very focused on fine finishing but not on new innovation. But it is probably due to market preference today and cost of developing a new complication should be prohibitive. It will be interesting to see who among them will have a second act with something more interesting horologically.
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Old 5 February 2024, 02:38 AM   #107
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The cracked wheat comment was funny btw.
Yes, but John is basically a negative post generator at this point.

Certainly, it's completely valid to raise issues about an independent's longevity (DeBethune was circling the drain until watchbox/1916 bought it). Or about how several of the latest batch of one watchmaker independents seem to have similar visual aesthetics (high swiss-french finish with hour/minutes on a subdial, allowing movement parts to be seen on the front of the dial--the dial designs meant to be modern but inspired originally by A.L. Breguet's souscriptions--making a fashion trend aimed at hooking collectors chasing the next Dufour or Rexhep, rather than making something that shows character beyond the trend or timelessly classic or iconic.

Or something about cracked wheat, sure.
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Old 5 February 2024, 02:43 AM   #108
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. Among AP, Rolex and Patek, only Patek can promise to service your watch indefinitely into the future.
.
Off-topic, but AP's vintage restoration is actually superior to Patek's. AP reps like to say there is a pocketwatch in the the Patek museum which is non-functional. Patek asked AP's help on it and AP said sure, if you give us credit for the service. So, it sits non-functional...

Breguet is another company that will service anything thst has ever been made under the Breguet name, although I would send an old Breguet pocketwatch to Charles Frodsham, as I've seen them work on a museum-quality piece.
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Old 5 February 2024, 02:51 AM   #109
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Yes, but John is basically a negative post generator at this point.

Certainly, it's completely valid to raise issues about an independent's longevity (DeBethune was circling the drain until watchbox/1916 bought it). Or about how several of the latest batch of one watchmaker independents seem to have similar visual aesthetics (high swiss-french finish with hour/minutes on a subdial, allowing movement parts to be seen on the front of the dial--the dial designs meant to be modern but inspired originally by A.L. Breguet's souscriptions--making a fashion trend aimed at hooking collectors chasing the next Dufour or Rexhep, rather than making something timelessly classic or iconic.

Or something about cracked wheat, sure.
Yea Iíve noticed his comments donít really add much to the conversation. And while I chuckled at the wheat comment I didnít take it as anything meaningful. Still, in the most basic level you either like the watch design/look or you donít. Thatís as far as I entertained his comments.

I totally forgot about De Bethune when thinking about struggling independents. Itís funny before I recently put a deposit down on a Voutilainen I was very keen on trying to get a DB. I went to WatchBox in NYC and had a lovely experience. They did eventually reach out to offer a DB perpetual calendar but I decided to pass for various reasons. I was happy to see the brand have some stability but there were other issues I couldnít get past and owning a Voutilainen instead was just way more attractive to me.

Oh and thereís so much to be said about Akrivia / Rexhep. To keep it brief for now, I am not a fan of the direction they are going. The AK-06 was what peaked my interest in the brand and I just donít get the LV collab as far as a direction that I find a smart evolution for the brand. Still, like DB, their security for the foreseeable future seems assured.
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Old 5 February 2024, 03:01 AM   #110
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making a fashion trend aimed at hooking collectors chasing the next Dufour or Rexhep, rather than making something that shows character beyond the trend or timelessly classic or iconic.

Or something about cracked wheat, sure.
Bingo. You took the words out of my mouth. Most new comers are chasing the Dufour trend as opposite to the previous independents like Debeuthe, FPJ, MB&F or Urwerk which are more trend setting type. With that said, I am still very smitten by a few of them and hope their second acts will bring us both innovation and fine finishing.

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Off-topic, but AP's vintage restoration is actually superior to Patek's. AP reps like to say there is a pocketwatch in the the Patek museum which is non-functional. Patek asked AP's help on it and AP said sure, if you give us credit for the service. So, it sits non-functional...

Breguet is another company that will service anything thst has ever been made under the Breguet name, although I would send an old Breguet pocketwatch to Charles Frodsham, as I've seen them work on a museum-quality piece.
Stand corrected. For practical purpose, the restoration service is so expensive that probably only museum level piece is worth the price. There was a New York Times article written by the journalist who looked into restoring a Calatrava passed down by the grandfather. The cost is enough to get a 5270.

Rolex Service Center does not service watches which are over X years old. (Forgot the exact number of years) Since Rolex only stock parts for a number of years but I was told that if the parts is still in stock, they may entertain it. I had a 25 years old Seadweller which was sent to a local service guy by the AD while I thought it was sent to RSC. I was not happy to say the least. And I did not find out until I asked why the service warranty card was not included.

Apology for being off-topic.
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Old 5 February 2024, 05:07 AM   #111
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Yes, but John is basically a negative post generator at this point.

Certainly, it's completely valid to raise issues about an independent's longevity (DeBethune was circling the drain until watchbox/1916 bought it). Or about how several of the latest batch of one watchmaker independents seem to have similar visual aesthetics (high swiss-french finish with hour/minutes on a subdial, allowing movement parts to be seen on the front of the dial--the dial designs meant to be modern but inspired originally by A.L. Breguet's souscriptions--making a fashion trend aimed at hooking collectors chasing the next Dufour or Rexhep, rather than making something that shows character beyond the trend or timelessly classic or iconic.

Or something about cracked wheat, sure.
I really like the openworked aesthetic haha. The voutilainen and Armin Strom I have en router both have that aesthetic. Love the Breguet Tradition too lol :-)


To me, itís a shame to have a beautiful movement and hide it.
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Old 5 February 2024, 05:11 AM   #112
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I really like the openworked aesthetic haha. The voutilainen and Armin Strom I have en router both have that aesthetic. Love the Breguet Tradition too lol :-)


To me, itís a shame to have a beautiful movement and hide it.
Now that you mentioned it, I think I am also drawn to this openwork aesthetic. On my dream list:

FPJ FFC
FPJ minute repeater with sapphire dial
Voutilainen Inverse
Simon Brett

I almost got the VC Overseas Tourbillon Skeleton just a few months ago but completely turned off by the massive price increases. And is still looking for a good deal on a Breguet Tradition on the grey market.
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Old 5 February 2024, 06:53 AM   #113
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A little more of cracked wheat. ; )

But seriously, this is why I love coming to read the opinions of everyone. I learn a lot. I value all. This watch is not for everyone and some may love it. That is great either way. For me, it gives me great pleasure to partake in the journey of each of these artists. I am happy that my watch is special to me. I feel like a patron of the this watchmaking art.

On Tuesday, I will see both Petermann Bedat and Simon Brette at the LVMH Watch Prize and will be so proud of them making it as finalists. This is their life, their art, their creations.

Glad to post pictures if there is interest. Thanks to all for always listening.

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Old 5 February 2024, 07:14 AM   #114
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The back side. Hard to photograph.

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Old 5 February 2024, 07:31 AM   #115
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A little more of cracked wheat. ; )

But seriously, this is why I love coming to read the opinions of everyone. I learn a lot. I value all. This watch is not for everyone and some may love it. That is great either way. For me, it gives me great pleasure to partake in the journey of each of these artists. I am happy that my watch is special to me. I feel like a patron of the this watchmaking art.

On Tuesday, I will see both Petermann Bedat and Simon Brette at the LVMH Watch Prize and will be so proud of them making it as finalists. This is their life, their art, their creations.

Glad to post pictures if there is interest. Thanks to all for always listening.

What if we start the trend of giving nicknames to independent watches like how Rolex has the Hulk, Batman, etc? At this point itís obvious we need to call the ChronomŤtre Artisans the ĎCracked Wheatí. No idea what we will call others but this should be a thing.

I love the idea of buying an independent as being a patron of the arts. Itís a lovely sentiment and one I think is very true especially with newer brands.

Do me a solid. Tell Simon to keep the ChronomŤtre Artisans series going so all forum members can get one :)

I think I speak for a lot of us when I say I canít get enough photos of your watches. Itís always appreciated.
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Old 5 February 2024, 09:13 AM   #116
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The back side. Hard to photograph.

These gears!!!
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Old 5 February 2024, 10:27 AM   #117
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Bingo. You took the words out of my mouth. Most new comers are chasing the Dufour trend as opposite to the previous independents like Debeuthe, FPJ, MB&F or Urwerk which are more trend setting type. With that said, I am still very smitten by a few of them and hope their second acts will bring us both innovation and fine finishing.
The majority of these upcoming watchmakers (I omitted watchmakers who have started more than 10 years ago) already have their "second acts", or third, etc ~
Petermann Bedat: 1967 (dead-beat), 2941 (split second chrono), working on 3rd model
Theo Auffret: 1st watch is a tourbillon; 2nd act is a sports tourbillon
Julien Tixier: 1st watch Tempus Fugit counts down your lifespan; 2nd watch is a secular perpetual calendar
Remy Cools: 1st 2 watches are both tourbillon
Sylvain Pinaud: 1st watch is a chrono; 2nd watch is Origine
Krayon: 1st watch is Everywhere, 2nd is Anywhere

Below watchmakers recently released their 1st watch and are presently working on their next ~
Xhevdet Rexhepi: 1st watch has a complication that most people do not understand. Designing his 2nd watch
Simon Brette: He is working on a complicated 2nd watch
Vincent Deprez: 1st watch is a tourbillon and currently working on his 2nd watch
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Old 5 February 2024, 10:33 AM   #118
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The majority of these upcoming watchmakers (I omitted watchmakers who have started more than 10 years ago) already have their "second acts", or third, etc ~
Petermann Bedat: 1967 (dead-beat), 2941 (split second chrono), working on 3rd model
Theo Auffret: 1st watch is a tourbillon; 2nd act is a sports tourbillon
Julien Tixier: 1st watch Tempus Fugit counts down your lifespan; 2nd watch is a secular perpetual calendar
Remy Cools: 1st 2 watches are both tourbillon
Sylvain Pinaud: 1st watch is a chrono; 2nd watch is Origine

Below watchmakers recently released their 1st watch and are presently working on their next ~
Xhevdet Rexhepi: 1st watch has a complication that most people do not understand. Designing his 2nd watch
Simon Brette: He is working on a complicated 2nd watch
Vincent Deprez: 1st watch is a tourbillon and currently working on his 2nd watch
I didnít know Peterman Bedat was already working on their third. Thatís impressive.

Also I really like this summary. Really captures how fast these new watchmakers are working. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 5 February 2024, 10:45 AM   #119
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Or about how several of the latest batch of one watchmaker independents seem to have similar visual aesthetics (high swiss-french finish with hour/minutes on a subdial, allowing movement parts to be seen on the front of the dial--the dial designs meant to be modern but inspired originally by A.L. Breguet's souscriptions--making a fashion trend aimed at hooking collectors chasing the next Dufour or Rexhep, rather than making something that shows character beyond the trend or timelessly classic or iconic.
It's way too early to broad-brush the SBCA, Origine, 1967, Anywhere, etc, as fashion watches and these watches could very well be the classic/icons of the future. Time will tell.

Personally, I regard the 2020s as the "Impressionism" of watches.
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Old 5 February 2024, 10:48 AM   #120
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On Tuesday, I will see both Petermann Bedat and Simon Brette at the LVMH Watch Prize and will be so proud of them making it as finalists. This is their life, their art, their creations.

Glad to post pictures if there is interest. Thanks to all for always listening.
Wish I could be there to meet you guys! I like both watches and I'm rooting for both of them (does that even make sense haha ).

Please continue to post these fabulous pics. Love them.
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