My Dilemma.

[TheBeardedTaff]

Hi All.

This is my first thread / topic within TRF, and I have to be honest I'm suffering from Paralysis over Analysis..

For a few weeks now I have been on the lookout for my first collectible luxury watch, I say first because I have owned a Zenith El Primero but sold it after needing funds for another purchase.

I would love to start collecting timepieces, I have always, since a boy been fascinated with watches of some description and have owned quite a few over the years, nothing spectacular but watches that I have really liked and really wanted, like the Casios, and the G-Shocks, my first love was a watch that my wife bought me when we first got together, it was a Timberland chronograph, and boy did I love that watch, it was a very busy watch with the chrono, day and date, a Quartz movement but at the time I didn't care, nor understand really, this was 22 years ago by the way, I am now 47.

I want to make this as brief as possible because it's also not very interesting I feel either for you guys to read, but....

My dilemma is, after seeing over the last 2 days a lovely chap on TRF called TraveIIIer (hope that's correct) and all his images of a watch I've kind of been obsessing over the last few weeks, the Panerai Pam233!

His images are mesmerising and encapsulating on the Pam233, and when I seen them for the first time I thought straight away, this is really making my decision easy, Pam it is.....Then I view his instagram and seen his wonderful collection, and there's another watch he has that I have tried on, in my local AD, the Tudor BB GMT.

Back to the dilemma, lol.....My thoughts are.

Do I go for the Pam233 for £5500? or
Tudor BB GMT, and another watch that equates to the value of the Pam?

Now the Pam233 I have waiting (if I want it) is immaculate, but no papers, everything else is there, and from a very reputable physical store that sells luxury pre owned watches..

Is having NO PAPERS a deal breaker spending £5500 for a Pam233, or do I go for the Tudor GMT, and maybe a Longines Master Collection Complications (as I also like busy dials)

As I have said, Paralysis over Analysis...

[Jay (Eire)]

Two very different watches, very different. You are just killing yourself trying to compare them as they are not both comparable.

Can you think about which might work best day to day for you, at work, outside of work. If this is to be one watch, the main watch, which one fits your lifestyle best.

The Tudor in all likelihood is the more versatile watch. But that doesn’t mean the PAM can’t be an everyday piece for YOU.

You’ll hate this next bit but you are spending serious money, wait a bit more. Try and see some more watches in the metal. Make sure you see that PAM in person, pictures be they brand promotional or just us guys here can be misleading.

This is a great position to be in, money in your pocket and a whole world of potential watches to look at.

[TheBeardedTaff]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

Two very different watches, very different. You are just killing yourself trying to compare them as they are not both comparable.

Can you think about which might work best day to day for you, at work, outside of work. If this is to be one watch, the main watch, which one fits your lifestyle best.

The Tudor in all likelihood is the more versatile watch. But that doesn’t mean the PAM can’t be an everyday piece for YOU.

You’ll hate this next bit but you are spending serious money, wait a bit more. Try and see some more watches in the metal. Make sure you see that PAM in person, pictures be they brand promotional or just us guys here can be misleading.

This is a great position to be in, money in your pocket and a whole world of potential watches to look at.

Hi, thanks for the input, I'm not comparing them like for like, just what would suit my budget, would I be better off having 2 watches, one for every day and the other maybe. Bit more of a dressy watch. I've also been lucky enough to have tried on the 233 in WOS in the uk last month, and loved it, the pics are just adding to the fire that's burning.

[shafran]

Go for what you love. Being practical is great but wont quench your desire. I have made that mistake and end up flipping to get the dream watch

[Marchy]

I was in London early this year when I chanced upon an AD of various brands. Although I wasn't actively looking to buy, there were a number of different watches I was interested in, like the Santos and a JLC diver, but I also had the Panerai marina at the back of my mind as somehow I was itching for a Pam too. The SA was very friendly and led me downstairs where the Panerai shelf was next to the Tudor's with BB's and pelagos's. The Tudors were much cheaper although I don't remember the price on the GMT. The Tudors wear beautiful on my wrist. Then I tried on a pam 510 that was listed at £5500. It looked beautiful but I was not impressed with it on my wrist, wore bigger than my FF. But when I tried on a 1090, then that sang to me somehow. I thought this was going to scratch that itch. It was listed at £6500 but got 10% off and VAT refunded at the airport.

[Travelller]

First off, welcome to TRF

I'm also pleased to hear that my 233 post(s) have somewhat enticed you

Like the lads posted above, I'd also recommend you take a little more time before committing to any single watch, particularly as your background suggests your mainly a one-watch kind of guy.

I absolutely love my 233 and (along with my Rolex 126600) it will be the last one to go in any kind of emergency etc. HOWEVER... if I did want to sell it today it would be at a loss... it's a current production reference and I don't see OP removing it from its product line anytime soon.
Ditto for a production Black Bay. If you buy new & change your mind / want to trade it for another watch, you can expect a slight loss.

As for the 233 you found; while the price is ok and even though it's not that easy to reproduce the P.2002 mvmt, I personally would never buy a non-vintage watch w/o papers, period. But that's just me... .

PAM 233 ... Speedmaster... Black Bay... this all tells me that you're getting more and more invested time-wise in the hunt for your next luxury watch (the Zenith El Primero being very much one too) and that's great - the hunt for the ultimate (next) watch is a huge part of the experience so take your time*, enjoy the hunt and keep us posted


/off-topic
*I ordered Omega's latest n greatest, the "321 Ed White". It's biggest selling point is that it's powered by a "re-born" 1949 Omega 321 movement, the predecessor of the former 861, current 1861 and future 3861. Google for more info if interested.
Because I have some time before the watches start to ship to the Boutiques AND because of the considerable price-tag, I've embarked on a long journey to learn about the history of the Chronograph complication. I've started my own "scratchpad" database and I have no less than 180 entries so far and I'm not even close to finishing...
But you get the point - just like with my OP research, I will have a good background and will be able to justify the merit of the venerable 321 movement (or Breitling's AVI 765 tribute, or Longine's Big Eye or ... )

[TheBeardedTaff]

Originally Posted by shafran

Go for what you love. Being practical is great but wont quench your desire. I have made that mistake and end up flipping to get the dream watch

HaHa, I get your point so far for me the 233 is definitely ahead, probably if I'm honest by a big margin, what is seriously not to love about that watch, and as much as I try and think about being practical by having 2 watches for the same money, I will always have in the back of my mind what if I just went for the 233, plus my 50th isn't that far away either

[TheBeardedTaff]

Originally Posted by Marchy

I was in London early this year when I chanced upon an AD of various brands. Although I wasn't actively looking to buy, there were a number of different watches I was interested in, like the Santos and a JLC diver, but I also had the Panerai marina at the back of my mind as somehow I was itching for a Pam too. The SA was very friendly and led me downstairs where the Panerai shelf was next to the Tudor's with BB's and pelagos's. The Tudors were much cheaper although I don't remember the price on the GMT. The Tudors wear beautiful on my wrist. Then I tried on a pam 510 that was listed at £5500. It looked beautiful but I was not impressed with it on my wrist, wore bigger than my FF. But when I tried on a 1090, then that sang to me somehow. I thought this was going to scratch that itch. It was listed at £6500 but got 10% off and VAT refunded at the airport.

Bonus Marchy, bonus!

My story of the 233 actually started with me on the hunt for the 1531 I think it is, with the blue second hand, and the half moon shape PR on the dial, but then when I went into the AD, and they showed me the complete stock they had of PAMS, the 233 almost screamed at me, and didn't really look twice at the 1531.

[Marchy]

Originally Posted by TheBeardedTaff

Bonus Marchy, bonus!

My story of the 233 actually started with me on the hunt for the 1531 I think it is, with the blue second hand, and the half moon shape PR on the dial, but then when I went into the AD, and they showed me the complete stock they had of PAMS, the 233 almost screamed at me, and didn't really look twice at the 1531.

I was also interested at the 233 but could not find one to try on. I was thinking manual wound would be interesting especially if I would not be wearing the watch everyday and the power reserve indicator would tell me when I need to wind it. The date is clean w/o the bubble, and a clear case back. I believe you would be happy with it

[Marchy]

/off-topic
*I ordered Omega's latest n greatest, the "321 Ed White". It's biggest selling point is that it's powered by a "re-born" 1949 Omega 321 movement, the predecessor of the former 861, current 1861 and future 3861. Google for more info if interested.
Because I have some time before the watches start to ship to the Boutiques AND because of the considerable price-tag, I've embarked on a long journey to learn about the history of the Chronograph complication. I've started my own "scratchpad" database and I have no less than 180 entries so far and I'm not even close to finishing...
But you get the point - just like with my OP research, I will have a good background and will be able to justify the merit of the venerable 321 movement (or Breitling's AVI 765 tribute, or Longine's Big Eye or ... )[/QUOTE]



Traveller, I would love to hear your thoughts on chronographs. My good friend has a speedy we bought from an AD in hong kong many moons ago. He thought he bumped it hard into a wall or something after a few drinks and it stopped working, just months into his ownership. He got it fixed and have been working just fine ever since. So I have a little bit of concern on durability. I've never owned a chrono so I'm naive of course. Also too what do you think about its usefulness? Thanks!

[vman]

Pam 233--an excellent watch. You cannot go wrong with it unless you got small wrists. Not a bad way to enter the luxury watch market.

[TheBeardedTaff]

Yes these are two of a few watches that I tried on that day but the 233 definitively shone for me. In particular I liked the 1531 strap on the 233.


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[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by TheBeardedTaff

Hi, thanks for the input, I'm not comparing them like for like, just what would suit my budget, would I be better off having 2 watches, one for every day and the other maybe. Bit more of a dressy watch. I've also been lucky enough to have tried on the 233 in WOS in the uk last month, and loved it, the pics are just adding to the fire that's burning.

Buy the watch you really want, if it means one watch for a while then so be it. Don’t try to fit two watches into the budget as you’ll just be wishing you got the more expensive one that you sacrificed in order to squeeze in two watches. And call every AD and grey in the country to make sure you get the best price.

[TheBeardedTaff]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

Buy the watch you really want, if it means one watch for a while then so be it. Don’t try to fit two watches into the budget as you’ll just be wishing you got the more expensive one that you sacrificed in order to squeeze in two watches. And call every AD and grey in the country to make sure you get the best price.

Cheers man, I have done so much homework regarding pricing and quality and my affordability. I won't get a better price on the 233 than what I'm getting, the only downside in this occasion is no papers, but I have been told that the watch was purchased and sold back to the AD and they're very reputable with excellent Google feedback, and their communication has been second to none, even throughout this Covid19, they've kept me up to date with their store closure and that my watch is in their safe ready for me to collect when possible.

I cannot ask for better service than that.


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[Pongster]

So you decided on the 233 already? Congrats.

Dilemma solved.

[TheBeardedTaff]

Originally Posted by Pongster

So you decided on the 233 already? Congrats.

Dilemma solved.

Yes, although originally the AD was holding it for me whilst I was making the decision.

[rootbeer7]

you won't regret it. I now own a 233, Speedmaster & Seamaster 300MC

[TheBeardedTaff]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

you won't regret it. I now own a 233, Speedmaster & Seamaster 300MC

Hope not man, would love to see some pics of your 233 buddy.

[rootbeer7]

A pleasure.

[TheBeardedTaff]

Nice thanks man, dot dial too.....I can't find a dot dial for the budget, it is a simpler look to the am/pm indicator but not a deal breaker for me.