FPJ Chronometre Souverain Pt with Havana dial-what’s happening

[MrBenF]

I notice that secondary market pricing for this reference (first photo) has moved very sharply:

- Jan 2019 $26,575 @TS
- Mar 2020 $42,900 @EWC

- That’s price hike of +60% in 14 months
- As recent as Jan (2 months ago) they were listed for ~$28-29k
- By comparison, the same watch with a white dial in Pt is trading at ~$27k

Questions:
1. Why the sudden jump in price for this reference? Is there a rumour that it’ll be discontinued soon or is it something else?
2. Why does it trade at such a large premium over the same watch but with the white dial?


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[Jay (Eire)]

Everything Journe has seen significant price hikes (asking prices) over that time period, and it’s been almost exponential increases in the last few months. There’s plenty of discussion on that on other Journe threads.

I don’t know about current availability of the Havana but that EWC price must be close or over retail.

The white dial CS always sold well below anything else, in recent years for low 20’s. So that’s seen a big bump too.

[Swaye]

The Journe line as a whole has been moving up, and the Havana is no different. Realized sale prices from a dealer I have known for years and years (I trust the numbers) of 28.5K in Dec 2018 and 42.5K last month. Those are sale prices, not asks, and both were Rose Gold Lune's. That's pretty good appreciation.

But, nothing like the fireworks in other parts of the line (I wish I could afford those parts of the line).

Brass took off first, then ruthenium, then the CB kind of coinciding with the Resonance, and lately the Centigraphe. FP Journe is just killing it because of some great auction results recently, some market manipulation by a major player or two, strong demand for exceptional watches with a wholly unique design ethos (I'm a fan can you tell?), and extremely low supply/numbers.

It's a great brand and a great watch and collectors are taking notice. Regrettably it has priced me out of my two favorite references, but that's okay, because I love the two I have.

[kunlun]

It's hard not to root for FPJ a bit, even if it means higher costs for us. When independents with lovely watches like DeBethune and LF are dying, it's so good to see FPJ get a bit of hype. They are in a good place to weather the current situation and thrive in the future. Hopefully, Mr. Journe himself will have another decade and a half at least before the company moves to grow within its own DNA, secure with its private investors who are all deeply committed to the brand.

[BigAppleBill]

Originally Posted by kunlun

It's hard not to root for FPJ a bit, even if it means higher costs for us. When independents with lovely watches like DeBethune and LF are dying, it's so good to see FPJ get a bit of hype. They are in a good place to weather the current situation and thrive in the future. Hopefully, Mr. Journe himself will have another decade and a half at least before the company moves to grow within its own DNA, secure with its private investors who are all deeply committed to the brand.

Well said.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by kunlun

It's hard not to root for FPJ a bit, even if it means higher costs for us. When independents with lovely watches like DeBethune and LF are dying, it's so good to see FPJ get a bit of hype. They are in a good place to weather the current situation and thrive in the future. Hopefully, Mr. Journe himself will have another decade and a half at least before the company moves to grow within its own DNA, secure with its private investors who are all deeply committed to the brand.

Great post. And you are correct, as watch fans we should root for this company. We all know how hard it is to "stick" in this industry as an independent. I root for NOMOS even though I don't own one (yet). I want to see these guys all do well. I think FPJ has perhaps broken through and is mainstreaming a bit, and with their recent financial backing, and prices rising across the board, they may have finally caught fire enough to be a completely safe bet now and in the future.

I hope so. I think his watches are magic. I'd own 3 more of them if I could afford them.

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by kunlun

It's hard not to root for FPJ a bit, even if it means higher costs for us. When independents with lovely watches like DeBethune and LF are dying, it's so good to see FPJ get a bit of hype. They are in a good place to weather the current situation and thrive in the future. Hopefully, Mr. Journe himself will have another decade and a half at least before the company moves to grow within its own DNA, secure with its private investors who are all deeply committed to the brand.

I agree, as owners and supporters we obviously want to see strong prices and a healthily sustainable brand (for Journe and others).

The current situation will have an impact on everyone and every brand, and may be the tipping for some. It would seem Journe should have some protection against this as my understanding from talking to the frontline folks business has been pretty good the last year or so, and as you say they now have some additional financial support (we assume).

[Skyrider01]

A year ago you could walk into a boutique and they would have every version of the Havana dial available. I inquired a few weeks ago about one at my local boutique and they said they would try and locate one. They just emailed me a few days ago saying that none of the boutiques has any Havanas, but it can be ordered from Geneva.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Skyrider01

A year ago you could walk into a boutique and they would have every version of the Havana dial available. I inquired a few weeks ago about one at my local boutique and they said they would try and locate one. They just emailed me a few days ago saying that none of the boutiques has any Havanas, but it can be ordered from Geneva.

Same thing on the secondary. 6 months ago there were always 8-10 of them on Chrono24, now you find one or two. I guess it finally got relatively popular. It's a great watch. I love mine!

[imrsion]

They haven't made many with Havana dials. There are no gold CSs with Havana dial even available right now second hand from what I can see. They're still making them from what I was told the last time I was at the Boutique and at that second hand price, I'd buy it new.

[impinth06]

I brought from a certified FPJ retailer a pre owned chronometre optimum PT 42, box & paper a couple months back for 54k. Now those are listed $75k no b p, $80k with b p

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by impinth06

I brought from a certified FPJ retailer a pre owned chronometre optimum PT 42, box & paper a couple months back for 54k. Now those are listed $75k no b p, $80k with b p

Good deal. It's the whole line. And shockingly these aren't just asking prices. They are actually selling it appears. As I said previously, I wish I had jumped in a year ago. I read stories here about people paying in the 40's for a Resonance a year ago. I am priced out of them now in the 80s-90s. Crazy.

I did catch the Centigraphe perfectly though. Just before they took off. So I will be thankful for that and admire Optimums and Resonances from afar.

[MrBenF]

Originally Posted by imrsion

They haven't made many with Havana dials. There are no gold CSs with Havana dial even available right now second hand from what I can see. They're still making them from what I was told the last time I was at the Boutique and at that second hand price, I'd buy it new.

Does anyone have an approximate split of the production between the *3 different dials (original white, white with embossed markers and Havana)?

The CS model was introduced in 2005, with a 2nd version of the white dial introduced in 2014 and then the Havana in 2017.

So it appears that all FPJ references are being repriced? For the Resonance and Centigraphe, that’s more understandable since those models have been discontinued. But for the rest, wondering if there’s a specific reason or trigger for it? +40% jump in <12 months is pretty significant.

Does anyone expect an increase in MSRPs across his model line soon?

I was fortunate to get a Centigraphe in Pt 4 months ago. My AD has a Havana CS in stock and although timing is not ideal and I feel that RG is a better match for the dial, I am still tempted.

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[Swaye]

Originally Posted by MrBenF

Does anyone have an approximate split of the production between the *3 different dials (original white, white with embossed markers and Havana)?

The CS model was introduced in 2005, with a 2nd version of the white dial introduced in 2014 and then the Havana in 2017.

So it appears that all FPJ references are being repriced? For the Resonance and Centigraphe, that’s more understandable since those models have been discontinued. But for the rest, wondering if there’s a specific reason or trigger for it? +40% jump in <12 months is pretty significant.

Does anyone expect an increase in MSRPs across his model line soon?

I was fortunate to get a Centigraphe in Pt 4 months ago. My AD has a Havana CS in stock and although timing is not ideal and I feel that RG is a better match for the dial, I am still tempted.

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Good deal on the Centigraphe. Nice time to pick one up.

My AD said they have not received a new Havana in awhile, but do not know what the story is with them. I know they have dried up most everywhere. Not sure what that means either, but I am super happy I got mine in RG while they were "cheap."

[Slider817]

Seems strange to pay a premium for a the same watch with a different color dial. Love my White Gold Dial PT Souverain. Got it for a decent price and love wearing it. If the Havana or Regular white dial was substantially less money would have gotten one of those. Love the brand, on the hunt for another FPJ, probably one of the newer Elegante models.

[ialienam]

I was going to ask the same for Journe Tourbillon deadbeat second. It was about $85k or something back late 2019.. And now it's asking around $125k???!!

Well... I know it's discontinued, but why sudden big jump in 6 months?

[Parapraxis]

Any updates on pricing now?

CS Platinum 40mm Havana Dial is about $36k USD retail. What are they trading for now aftermarket?