Why is VC in the holy trinity?

[SROB]

I've considered, I'm considering some of their pieces. People buy, rank, brands for different reasons.

I'm sure many people are able to name many brands, indies, that are far superior to any of these three.

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[GoingPlaces]

Originally Posted by ashbaug2

Unfortunately I resemble that statement... But I would hope I don't contribute to that problem...

Humility is a great trait to have. It serves us all well.

[srvrf]

Wow, people need to separate the historical “holy trinity” of watchmaking from a current “popularity trinity” or “value retention” trinity?

The Holy Trinity of Swiss watchmaking is a historical designation to three Swiss watchmakers that have been around a long time (VC the longest) and have made very complicated and hand finished watches showing their advanced abilities. This isn’t to say that other companies don’t make great watches, just not for as long as these three. Rolex makes great tool watches with many associated innovations. They’re mass-produced, relatively simple, but robust movements hidden behind solid casebacks. Their most complicated movements are in the YM2 and Skydweller which are both relatively recent. VC has had the most complicated watch title in the past (as has Patek) and now has this to show off its watchmaking ability. Other than Patek and AP, who else has been doing this for 100 plus years?




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[Pongster]

Originally Posted by Mr.Rolex1

+1

Because it would seem to me that for OP, Rolex (as well as Omega) has a better claim to be in the trinity.

To my mind, these labels take decades and even centuries to take shape. The fact that we all woke up to the notion that VC is in the trinity with PP and AP is the very proof in itself.

[baamvino]

Originally Posted by Juan Luis

Vacheron is tops along with Patek, in my opinion. But, I would switch Jaeger in, and Audemars, I mean Royal Oak, out!

AP...I mean RO is so overrated.

[kieselguhr]

Originally Posted by Luther89

Stop being pedantic. You know what I mean. We don’t need sales figures to know which brands are more wanted than others. Do I need figures to convince you that Patek is more wanted than omega?

You can provide any kind of evidence that you so choose to substantiate the comment;

Originally Posted by Luther89

VC is not wanted by many at all

Meanwhile,

https://journal.hautehorlogerie.org/...atch-market-i/

Omega is doing pretty well

[DoraTheExplorerII]

I wonder if Breguet could submit a ballot for the Trinity.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by srvrf

Wow, people need to separate the historical “holy trinity” of watchmaking from a current “popularity trinity” or “value retention” trinity?

The Holy Trinity of Swiss watchmaking is a historical designation to three Swiss watchmakers that have been around a long time (VC the longest) and have made very complicated and hand finished watches showing their advanced abilities. This isn’t to say that other companies don’t make great watches, just not for as long as these three. Rolex makes great tool watches with many associated innovations. They’re mass-produced, relatively simple, but robust movements hidden behind solid casebacks. Their most complicated movements are in the YM2 and Skydweller which are both relatively recent. VC has had the most complicated watch title in the past (as has Patek) and now has this to show off its watchmaking ability. Other than Patek and AP, who else has been doing this for 100 plus years?




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Wow, that is some piece.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by DoraTheExplorerII

I wonder if Breguet could submit a ballot for the Trinity.

If it was my vote, it would be Patek, Breguet and Lange.

[RobearH]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

If it was my vote, it would be Patek, Breguet and Lange.

Maybe it should be the Mount Rushmore of watchmakers instead to make room for one more to include Breguet and Lange along side Patek and VC...which would leave AP on the cliff.

That watch above ^ is all the proof this thread needs.

[shafran]

I agree the question is should Lange or Breguet be up there. In my mind it has nothing to do with popularity but the longevity of the company and quality of finishing are top priorities. If you think Rolex should be there based on units sold and percentage of value retained, then you should add Seiko and apple watch. But, it is not about that.

[srvrf]

I’m no historian, nor do I influence any rules, but I don’t think Lange gets considered because they’re not Swiss and Breguet seems to have been in Paris for a lot of its history.


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[capote]

Originally Posted by Syed117

Here's a fun little exercise for everyone.

See something objectively stupid or so ill informed that it makes you laugh? Take a look at the join date.

Chances are it's someone who has joined in 2018 or 2019.

Don't get me wrong. Being here longer isn't some badge of honor unless you're one of the really old guys. Obviously not every new member is posting trash, but trust me on this one and take a look at those join dates the next time your are reading the forum and shaking your head.

+1 and might I add posted in the general Rolex discussion forum

[Cabaiguan]

For all those giving AP shade...w/o this manufacture, we may all be wearing nondescript quartz watches around like some dystopian nightmare. The RO not only saved AP from bankruptcy, but may have also fended off the vultures long enough for the entire Swiss watchmaking industry to survive. For that ALONE (and yes, their grande complications) I would place them atop the heap. They deserve to be one of the trinity.

[somebodyy]

Why is VC in the "Holy Trinity"?

First of all they're the only big watchmaker that does watches on comission at their Les Cabinotiers Atelier.
And they don't do it like Patek who only sells a different dial to some high profile customers... they do it to everyone and build whatever you want if its ethically compatible with the brand.

Some of them led to the most complicated pieces, like these:

- Vacheron Constantin Les Cabinotiers Celestia Astronomical Grand Complication 3600
- Vacheron Constantin Les Cabinotiers Grand Complication Phoenix
- The Vacheron Constantin 57260
- Vacheron Constantin Maitre Cabinotier Astronomica

They also did something great things on their regular collection like this:

- Vacheron Constantin Traditionnelle Twin Beat Perpetual Calendar

Secondly they're the oldest watch manufacturer in continous operation. That's hell of an accomplishment alone.

Now give me a reason why they shouldn't be within the holy trinity? What does Patek and AP make more valuable than VC? Just because some rappers know them?

Originally Posted by Cabaiguan

For all those giving AP shade...w/o this manufacture, we may all be wearing nondescript quartz watches around like some dystopian nightmare. The RO not only saved AP from bankruptcy, but may have also fended off the vultures long enough for the entire Swiss watchmaking industry to survive. For that ALONE (and yes, their grande complications) I would place them atop the heap. They deserve to be one of the trinity.

Ehm... simply no! Do you actually know some proper watch history? In no world the Royal Oak saved the swiss watch industry. Also it's just an assumption that AP would've gone bankrupt w/o the weak selling Royal Oak. It might've save them to go for another attemp of changes.

It's marketing. Shaping history their way and ppl believe it, just like ppl believe that only Rolex is robust.

[CoveWatch]

Originally Posted by Syed117

Here's a fun little exercise for everyone.

See something objectively stupid or so ill informed that it makes you laugh? Take a look at the join date.

Chances are it's someone who has joined in 2018 or 2019.

Don't get me wrong. Being here longer isn't some badge of honor unless you're one of the really old guys. Obviously not every new member is posting trash, but trust me on this one and take a look at those join dates the next time your are reading the forum and shaking your head.

Oooff! Barely made the cut! Guess i can still say silly things and get away with it score!

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by somebodyy

Ehm... simply no! Do you actually know some proper watch history? In no world the Royal Oak saved the swiss watch industry. Also it's just an assumption that AP would've gone bankrupt w/o the weak selling Royal Oak. It might've save them to go for another attemp of changes.

It's marketing. Shaping history their way and ppl believe it, just like ppl believe that only Rolex is robust.

I was in the middle of responding with the same sentiment. The RO does have a place in history, specifically helping shape the modern day sports watch. But in no way should that qualify AP as a "holy trinity" member. Historically, Breguet are much more relevant and impactful to horology. From a modern day perspective, AP rarely innovate and are generally outclassed by Lange.

[jag32]

Originally Posted by brandrea

That pretty much answers the question

I didn’t know Richemont owned Cartier. Wow

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Syed117

Because they paid their Holy Trinity Fees and Rolex refused to.

its a fair question possibly if its VC vs another HH brand not included and why its VC and not them.

Its a ridiculous notion if its why is VC in it and Rolex isn't.

[jag32]

AP was officially removed as a member of the holy trinity with the release of the Code 11:59.

[Spartacus]

If you have to ask, you have not done the research.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by jag32

AP was officially removed as a member of the holy trinity with the release of the Code 11:59.

i would buy a code all day long vs a cellini

i don't wear dressy watches though. For a dressy watch in a more modern size, its pretty nice. 37/38 mm dress watches are an absolute non starter for me so it does fill a nice spot for those so inclined. I love Patek but i feel ridiculous when i have a small dress watch on

[sokoloka]

Originally Posted by CoveWatch

Oooff! Barely made the cut! Guess i can still say silly things and get away with it score!

Same here

Originally Posted by jag32

AP was officially removed as a member of the holy trinity with the release of the Code 11:59.

Yeah, I don't know about that:



https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=694181

@conkers
.

[Cabaiguan]

Originally Posted by somebodyy

Why is VC in the "Holy Trinity"?

First of all they're the only big watchmaker that does watches on comission at their Les Cabinotiers Atelier.
And they don't do it like Patek who only sells a different dial to some high profile customers... they do it to everyone and build whatever you want if its ethically compatible with the brand.

Some of them led to the most complicated pieces, like these:

- Vacheron Constantin Les Cabinotiers Celestia Astronomical Grand Complication 3600
- Vacheron Constantin Les Cabinotiers Grand Complication Phoenix
- The Vacheron Constantin 57260
- Vacheron Constantin Maitre Cabinotier Astronomica

They also did something great things on their regular collection like this:

- Vacheron Constantin Traditionnelle Twin Beat Perpetual Calendar

Secondly they're the oldest watch manufacturer in continous operation. That's hell of an accomplishment alone.

Now give me a reason why they shouldn't be within the holy trinity? What does Patek and AP make more valuable than VC? Just because some rappers know them?



Ehm... simply no! Do you actually know some proper watch history? In no world the Royal Oak saved the swiss watch industry. Also it's just an assumption that AP would've gone bankrupt w/o the weak selling Royal Oak. It might've save them to go for another attemp of changes.

It's marketing. Shaping history their way and ppl believe it, just like ppl believe that only Rolex is robust.

Fantastic first post. Member since 6hrs ago. Talk about history. Lol.


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[GB-man]

We really have a lot of damn fools amongst us. Hard to escape it because the Rolex brand just draws them in like flies on

[somebodyy]

Cabaiguan what a great response!

Please elaborate what the membership length has to do with knowledge?

[steeevvvooo]

Originally Posted by srvrf

Wow, people need to separate the historical “holy trinity” of watchmaking from a current “popularity trinity” or “value retention” trinity?

The Holy Trinity of Swiss watchmaking is a historical designation to three Swiss watchmakers that have been around a long time (VC the longest) and have made very complicated and hand finished watches showing their advanced abilities. This isn’t to say that other companies don’t make great watches, just not for as long as these three. Rolex makes great tool watches with many associated innovations. They’re mass-produced, relatively simple, but robust movements hidden behind solid casebacks. Their most complicated movements are in the YM2 and Skydweller which are both relatively recent. VC has had the most complicated watch title in the past (as has Patek) and now has this to show off its watchmaking ability. Other than Patek and AP, who else has been doing this for 100 plus years?




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Wowowow. What IS that?! Looks incredible

Btw, completely agree about Holy Trinity Vs Value Retention Trinity. We should be buying and wearing what we love, not just what holds value, and history has a lot to do with the romance of this hobby.

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[somebodyy]

That’s the Vacheron Constantin Les Cabinotiers Celestia Astronomical Grand Complication 3600 commissioned by an american business man.

Case: white gold, 45 mm x 13,6 mm
Power Reseve: 3 weeks
Complications: 23
Price: 1 million US$

[steeevvvooo]

Originally Posted by somebodyy

That’s the Vacheron Constantin Les Cabinotiers Celestia Astronomical Grand Complication 3600 commissioned by an american business man.



Case: white gold, 45 mm x 13,6 mm

Power Reseve: 3 weeks

Complications: 23

Price: 1 million US$

Oh. Guess it's off my lottery win list then if it was commissioned

What a great looking watch though

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[TJMike]

I have no idea why VC is in the Holy Trinity. None at all:
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/va...ar-introducing
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/va...ar-introducing
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/va...ges-collection
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/th...eference-57260