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EagleArmsHBAR · 22 March 2021, 10:18 PM

I walked into a jewelry store this weekend and was looking at their used watched and had a great conversation with the owner of the store. I casually mentioned that I was looking for an older five digit no-date submariner and he said he could get me one from one of his contacts.

A while later he told me that he found a really nice 5513 from the early 1970s for me and he sent a pic. I was beyond words when I saw it. I let him know it appeared to have a fake dial at minimum. He later told me that he contacted the seller again and that time the seller mentioned to him that the dial was "refinished".

I have no idea if the whole watch is fake (looks like a Mexico/Jamaica cruise terminal special to me), but take a look:

EagleArmsHBAR · 25 March 2021, 12:06 AM

No comments on this one?

Tools · 25 March 2021, 02:21 AM

Looks like a dial refinish, but the small image of the rest doesn't allow for much more.

Eingram141 · 25 March 2021, 08:59 AM

Id be very wary of this watch shop/owner. They are trying to sell a redial watch and they claim they didnt realize it was a redial? Red flag number 1.
Only when you tell them you know it is a redial and they respond by telling you it is in fact a redial. Red flag 2.
The seller has info that the watch is a redial and apparently in contact with the previous owner and is still proceeding forward with selling a watch as a genuine Rolex. Red flag 3.
I am not saying this person is guilty of selling fake goods. Maybe it is just an honest mistake. But they are certainly still continuing down the exact path of someone who is selling redialed Rolex without disclosing it.

R.W.T. · 25 March 2021, 07:55 PM

You know...only the "Rolex Police" care. I realize that it's a refinished dial. LOTS OF ROLEX HAVE REFINISHED DIALS...it's not illegal, nor is it in the regular game of used watch sales...an issue. Watch dials GET REFINISHED if they are damaged. Especially if you can't get a replacement. It's terribly commonplace in watchmaking to refinish dials...that's why there ARE dial refinishers.... it's ONLY an issue for a collector.
Rolex serviced my bubble back in GENEVA in the 80s with a refinished dial on it and didn't bat an eye. ROLEX sent dials for refinishing in NYC when they didn't have a service replacement. If you like the watch...and the rest checks out...buy it....if you don't like the dial...get a replacement. Too much internet.

stmoore · 25 March 2021, 08:35 PM

That’s one terrible looking coronet. Not on any sub I’ve ever seen....

zapokee · 25 March 2021, 09:38 PM

Not sure about it simply being a refinished dial.

It looks very much like the dreadful fake I bought for 80 bucks from a guy on the street 20 years ago that eventually got me into genuine Rolex. I still have it.

swaini3 · 25 March 2021, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zapokee

It looks very much like the dreadful fake I bought for 80 bucks from a guy on the street 20 years ago that eventually got me into genuine Rolex. I still have it.

Lol. Yes, Guilty of that too. It was somewhere in NY a loooong time ago, the guy opened opened his coat and had lots of them......

never2late · 25 March 2021, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swaini3

Lol. Yes, Guilty of that too. It was somewhere in NY a loooong time ago, the guy opened opened his coat and had lots of them......

Well, when he opened his coat like that in New York City you were very fortunate watches were all he was showing you.

harry in montreal · 25 March 2021, 11:38 PM

RWT, what are you talking about?

The dial Is the most valuable part of many watches, so alerting someone to the issue of a refinish is pretty important. Plus it indicates that other components could have been repaired poorly. It’s a huge service the ‘too much internet ‘ folks offer new buyers.

Do you disagree with me ?

Andjwhite · 25 March 2021, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zapokee

Not sure about it simply being a refinished dial.

It looks very much like the dreadful fake I bought for 80 bucks from a guy on the street 20 years ago that eventually got me into genuine Rolex. I still have it.

Post a pic!

1675-David · 25 March 2021, 11:50 PM

How much is the seller asking? The dial is crap but if the rest is OK... post good clear images of the case, front, back and between the lugs, side view would be good and a shot of the movement if possible. From what I see is a decent watch with a bad redial and service insert.

EagleArmsHBAR · 26 March 2021, 12:21 AM

He was asking something like $11,000. I passed.

swaini3 · 26 March 2021, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by never2late

Well, when he opened his coat like that in New York City you were very fortunate watches were all he was showing you.

mechachia · 26 March 2021, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zapokee

Not sure about it simply being a refinished dial.

It looks very much like the dreadful fake I bought for 80 bucks from a guy on the street 20 years ago that eventually got me into genuine Rolex. I still have it.

I had a considerably more dreadful fake Datejust (it said "Oysterquartz" on the dial, among other things) that I wore for many years in my youth. 30 years later, I was finally able to afford the real thing.

SN13 · 26 March 2021, 03:07 AM

I accidentally told my Friend's Friend that his Rolex was fake.

He took offense.... "We're in the Jewelry BUSINESS!" "WE would know if it was FAKE!"

Jeweler != Knowledgeable

SS Oyster · 26 March 2021, 04:35 AM

The hands look painted, not lumed. Crown is wrong. Lugs look overly polished. Can't see lug holes, clasp, back of end links, engraving between the lugs, etc. so much is missing for us to comment.

EagleArmsHBAR · 26 March 2021, 06:31 AM

Yeah the whole thing is sketch AF. He is trying to sell me others now, but I'm really not interested at all. I'd rather buy from Bob's or Swiss Watch Expo.

@orariofisso · 26 March 2021, 06:31 AM

saying that this is merely re-finished dial is putting it wayyy to lightly. looks like garbage. and thats 50% of value of the watch. for 11k they are stupid or complicit.

@orariofisso · 26 March 2021, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleArmsHBAR

Yeah the whole thing is sketch AF. He is trying to sell me others now, but I'm really not interested at all. I'd rather buy from Bob's or Swiss Watch Expo.

such a drag, man. sorry if it leaves you with a bad taste in your mouth. There are plenty of decent dealers out there. good call on Bob's or SWE.

zapokee · 26 March 2021, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andjwhite

Post a pic!

I thought about posting one, but I'm pretty sure posting fakes (and possibly even discussing them) is against forum rules...

77T · 26 March 2021, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zapokee

I thought about posting one, but I'm pretty sure posting fakes (and possibly even discussing them) is against forum rules...

I agree you shouldn’t post a fake solely for the vicarious pleasure of the one making the request. You said you knew it was a fake and that’s good enough.

As for the OP’s jeweler, he just isn’t a vintage expert (or maybe a Rolex expert either). Jewelers are retailers of a wide product range and can’t be experts in everything.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

1665fan · 26 March 2021, 10:05 AM

Junk.....I wouldn’t buy anything from someone would sell that POS

J_1964 · 26 March 2021, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleArmsHBAR

Yeah the whole thing is sketch AF. He is trying to sell me others now, but I'm really not interested at all. I'd rather buy from Bob's or Swiss Watch Expo.

How About Purchasing From a Trusted Seller Right Here at TRF?

EagleArmsHBAR · 26 March 2021, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_1964

How About Purchasing From a Trusted Seller Right Here at TRF?

I've sold to Bob's and David SW before and bought from SWE and several ADs. I merely walked into this guy's store, looked at his watches,and told him what I was on the lookout for if the deal was right. He proceeded to text me pics of this garbage and other Subs that were over polished and over priced.

harry in montreal · 27 March 2021, 12:36 AM

I still enjoy asking businesses like that for their junk or treasures. I’ve scored a few over the years that are my best watches. Sometimes they can be sharks, other times they can be uninformed. You never know until you ask

Tridor · 29 March 2021, 04:57 AM

Run in the opposite direction of that watch.

davie489 · 31 March 2021, 06:14 AM

Terrible

daOnlyBG · 31 March 2021, 06:27 AM

Something tells me that the dial isn't the only problem.

miamiclay · 31 March 2021, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mechachia

I had a considerably more dreadful fake Datejust (it said "Oysterquartz" on the dial, among other things) that I wore for many years in my youth. 30 years later, I was finally able to afford the real thing.

Yours may have been fake, but Rolex did make Oysterquartz Datejusts, all with “Oysterquartz” on the dial, for 24 years, ‘77-‘01.

25 March 2021, 02:21 AM	#3
Tools TRF Moderator & 2024 DATE-JUST41 Patron Join Date: May 2007 Real Name: Larry Location: Mojave Desert Watch: GMT's Posts: 43,040	Looks like a dial refinish, but the small image of the rest doesn't allow for much more. __________________ (Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....) NAWCC Member

26 March 2021, 03:07 AM	#16
SN13 "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Florida Posts: 1,124	I accidentally told my Friend's Friend that his Rolex was fake. He took offense.... "We're in the Jewelry BUSINESS!" "WE would know if it was FAKE!" Jeweler != Knowledgeable __________________ IG@Construction_Time --- 1986 DD 18038 --- 1992 YM 16628 --- 2015 116600 SD4K --- SBDX001 MM300 --- 2009 Omega Ploprof White --- 2010 Omega LE LMPO

29 March 2021, 04:57 AM	#27
Tridor "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: The Ozone Watch: DD, DJ, SubC Date Posts: 1,666	Run in the opposite direction of that watch. __________________ "Never complain about the air-conditioning on a private jet." - Michael Nesmith

31 March 2021, 06:27 AM	#29
daOnlyBG "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Odorious Onion Watch: yes, it's hipster Posts: 1,568	Something tells me that the dial isn't the only problem. __________________ Here come dat boi Jerry

25 March 2021, 12:06 AM	#2
EagleArmsHBAR "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA Posts: 241	No comments on this one?

25 March 2021, 08:59 AM	#4
Eingram141 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: New Orleans Posts: 62	Id be very wary of this watch shop/owner. They are trying to sell a redial watch and they claim they didnt realize it was a redial? Red flag number 1. Only when you tell them you know it is a redial and they respond by telling you it is in fact a redial. Red flag 2. The seller has info that the watch is a redial and apparently in contact with the previous owner and is still proceeding forward with selling a watch as a genuine Rolex. Red flag 3. I am not saying this person is guilty of selling fake goods. Maybe it is just an honest mistake. But they are certainly still continuing down the exact path of someone who is selling redialed Rolex without disclosing it.

25 March 2021, 07:55 PM	#5
R.W.T. "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,973	You know...only the "Rolex Police" care. I realize that it's a refinished dial. LOTS OF ROLEX HAVE REFINISHED DIALS...it's not illegal, nor is it in the regular game of used watch sales...an issue. Watch dials GET REFINISHED if they are damaged. Especially if you can't get a replacement. It's terribly commonplace in watchmaking to refinish dials...that's why there ARE dial refinishers.... it's ONLY an issue for a collector. Rolex serviced my bubble back in GENEVA in the 80s with a refinished dial on it and didn't bat an eye. ROLEX sent dials for refinishing in NYC when they didn't have a service replacement. If you like the watch...and the rest checks out...buy it....if you don't like the dial...get a replacement. Too much internet.

25 March 2021, 08:35 PM	#6
stmoore Banned Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: US Watch: Gilt Posts: 1,592	That’s one terrible looking coronet. Not on any sub I’ve ever seen....

25 March 2021, 09:38 PM	#7
zapokee "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Japan Posts: 4,344	Not sure about it simply being a refinished dial. It looks very much like the dreadful fake I bought for 80 bucks from a guy on the street 20 years ago that eventually got me into genuine Rolex. I still have it.

25 March 2021, 11:38 PM	#10
harry in montreal "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Montreal Watch: The Habs pick 1st! Posts: 3,589	RWT, what are you talking about? The dial Is the most valuable part of many watches, so alerting someone to the issue of a refinish is pretty important. Plus it indicates that other components could have been repaired poorly. It’s a huge service the ‘too much internet ‘ folks offer new buyers. Do you disagree with me ?

25 March 2021, 11:50 PM	#12
1675-David "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Stockholm Posts: 6,010	How much is the seller asking? The dial is crap but if the rest is OK... post good clear images of the case, front, back and between the lugs, side view would be good and a shot of the movement if possible. From what I see is a decent watch with a bad redial and service insert.

26 March 2021, 12:21 AM	#13
EagleArmsHBAR "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA Posts: 241	He was asking something like $11,000. I passed.

26 March 2021, 04:35 AM	#17
SS Oyster "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: USA Posts: 8,800	The hands look painted, not lumed. Crown is wrong. Lugs look overly polished. Can't see lug holes, clasp, back of end links, engraving between the lugs, etc. so much is missing for us to comment.

26 March 2021, 06:31 AM	#18
EagleArmsHBAR "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA Posts: 241	Yeah the whole thing is sketch AF. He is trying to sell me others now, but I'm really not interested at all. I'd rather buy from Bob's or Swiss Watch Expo.

26 March 2021, 06:31 AM	#19
@orariofisso "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 37	saying that this is merely re-finished dial is putting it wayyy to lightly. looks like garbage. and thats 50% of value of the watch. for 11k they are stupid or complicit.

26 March 2021, 10:05 AM	#23
1665fan "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: East coast Posts: 6,590	Junk.....I wouldn’t buy anything from someone would sell that POS

27 March 2021, 12:36 AM	#26
harry in montreal "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Montreal Watch: The Habs pick 1st! Posts: 3,589	I still enjoy asking businesses like that for their junk or treasures. I’ve scored a few over the years that are my best watches. Sometimes they can be sharks, other times they can be uninformed. You never know until you ask

31 March 2021, 06:14 AM	#28
davie489 "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: wycombe Posts: 58	Terrible

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