Rolex Oyster without serial number?

[josefrichter]

Hi everyone,

I have purchased a 1968 Rolex Oyster Perpetual Date, but have option to return it, so I'd like to ask you for advice, please:

- The watch doesn't seem to have a serial number engraved between lugs. nothing on 6 o'clock, nothing on 12 o'clock. See photos. The seller issued me a card with a serial number 1785xxx but I don't know where they took it.
- The seller seems to be reputable, they have a brick & mortar store in Italy and they have over 300 reviews on Chrono24 with average rating of 4.6. They offer the option to return within 30 days without stating reason (Italian law) and they provide "18 months guarantee" (not sure what that really means).
- The watch looks almost like brand new - if it's from 1968, I'd expect a few more signs of age, unless it was in tresor most of the time
- The strap is not original, apparently - I knew about that
- The price was around 3k EUR, which seems to be a bit below market rate

Do you think this might be genuine watch? Is there any Rolex that doesn't have serial number between lugs? Is there any reason for Rolex not to have a serial number, other than being fake or stolen? This is my first Rolex, so I am very inexperienced.

Thank you very much for your opinion and advice

[Old Expat Beast]

Sorry, but there's a lot wrong with this watch. Even if it's all real (which I doubt), look how much shorter the bottom right lug is than the bottom left. Get your money back as fast as you can.

[dan993]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Sorry, but there's a lot wrong with this watch. Even if it's all real (which I doubt), look how much shorter the bottom right lug is than the bottom left. Get your money back as fast as you can.

Nail on head

[Tools]

I might ask how it is determined that this is a "1968" model if there are no identifiable features that would say so.

There is no reason for a '60s, or '70s model Rolex watch to not have the model and serial stamped at each side of the case unless the case is not a Rolex case, but an aftermarket replacement.

[jvmartin]

The watch only looks like new because it has been polished... the serial/model may have rubbed off due to the previous strap rubbing against the case or it could have been intentionally rubbed off... sometimes on these older models it is very difficult to see the serial number... have you removed the strap and looked using a jeweler's loupe or are you just looking at it through the gap between the case and strap?

[josefrichter]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Sorry, but there's a lot wrong with this watch. Even if it's all real (which I doubt), look how much shorter the bottom right lug is than the bottom left. Get your money back as fast as you can.

Thank you. Yes, that's very weird.

[josefrichter]

Originally Posted by Tools

I might ask how it is determined that this is a "1968" model if there are no identifiable features that would say so.

There is no reason for a '60s, or '70s model Rolex watch to not have the model and serial stamped at each side of the case unless the case is not a Rolex case, but an aftermarket replacement.

The seller says so, and they send me the serial number, which I have no idea where they took. Is it possible at all that the serial is "worn off"?

[josefrichter]

Originally Posted by jvmartin

The watch only looks like new because it has been polished... the serial/model may have rubbed off due to the previous strap rubbing against the case or it could have been intentionally rubbed off... sometimes on these older models it is very difficult to see the serial number... have you removed the strap and looked using a jeweler's loupe or are you just looking at it through the gap between the case and strap?

Look at the second photo. I haven't removed the strap nor used the jeweller's loupe, but isn't it obvious there is absolutely nothing on the case?

I have looked from all possible and impossible angles and I don't see even a hint of engraving. Is it possible that it would be so rubbed off naturally, that I wouldn't see it at all?

Anyway, even if it was rubbed off naturally, it would be kinda difficult to potentially resell that piece, assuring the buyer that the serial is just worn off, wouldn't it?

[Tools]

Originally Posted by josefrichter

The seller says so, and they send me the serial number, which I have no idea where they took. Is it possible at all that the serial is "worn off"?

Sometimes the numbers get rubbed off from the bracelet end link constantly scraping against it.

It seldom completely obliterates the number, and it is even more unlikely that it would completely obliterate the numbers on both sides. Even it did, the marks from the end link scraping would be obvious.

A seller telling you "this is the serial number" is meaningless if the number, or some other method of ID, cannot be established. A number can be pulled out of thin air or easily gotten off the Internet.

Rolex has been known to pull up a number with acid etching, or comparing an original movement serial number with what the case number was when built. But this would provide an actual paper trail or documentation.

If they don't have a number on the case, indications that a number was ever there, or cannot provide actual, original, papers, the odds slip dramatically.

[josefrichter]

The serial number IS THERE :-o Based on jvmartin's suggestion, I took off the strap and took the best loupe I could find and best light I could find, and after some fiddling, at certain angle of light, I was indeed able to finally see the serial number.

See the attached photo - is it possible that it's so shallow engraving that it's almost impossible to see with naked eye?

Do you think there's still a chance this is a genuine Rolex?

Thank you

P.S. is it safe to post photos of serial number to a public forum? I really don't know. thank you.

[J_1964]

Still, with what was mentioned about the disparate length of the bottom lugs, Send It Back!

[dan993]

Do not keep this watch are you ignoring the different lug length?

[Porsche]

is everyone sure about lug-length? Looks like watch / pic is taken at an angle to me...

[Notsoprobro]

Glad you found it, I was about to say that it's hard to see but I definitely saw a 7 behind the strap.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Porsche

is everyone sure about lug-length? Looks like watch / pic is taken at an angle to me...

Sure. The top lugs don't look great either.

[josefrichter]

The lugs are visibly different, that’s very weird. Any ideas why would that be? Maybe there was some dent and they decided to mill/grind it?

Would it make sense to visit nearest Rolex dealer to have a look and give opinion?

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by josefrichter

The lugs are visibly different, that’s very weird. Any ideas why would that be? Maybe there was some dent and they decided to mill/grind it? Yes, it's just a bad fix.

Would it make sense to visit nearest Rolex dealer to have a look and give opinion? No

Send it back

[PRSWILL]

A watch of this age should be authenticated at an AR - take the back off and it will tell the whole story. The lug difference could be polishing, could be these were hand cut at the time and tolerances were not as great as today.

[dan993]

Originally Posted by josefrichter

The lugs are visibly different, that’s very weird. Any ideas why would that be? Maybe there was some dent and they decided to mill/grind it?

Would it make sense to visit nearest Rolex dealer to have a look and give opinion?

IMO and it's a beginners opinion the lugs don't look symmetrical and refinishing has been carried out. It seems to me you want to keep the watch anyway so ignore the advice you're asking for and keep it.

[josefrichter]

I arranged a visit to authorized Rolex reseller and they will give me they opinion. Of course I want to keep the watch, but only if it’s legit :-) The reseller is 300 km from here, have to make the trip.

Do you think the Rolex reseller can also judge whether the diamonds are legit? I would ask a local jeweler in my town, but we’re in strict lockdown and no jeweler would even pick up the phone now :-o I was lucky to get hold of the Rolex folks, because watchmakers are allowed to repair watch during lockdown 🙈

I don’t mind the irregular lugs, as long as that is a result of fixing 50+ years old watch that had some dents, and not a result of being fake. I have to say that the dial looks so precise to me, that if it’s fake, it’s a super good one. But I’m no expert, so I’ll go see one. Wish me best of luck. I spoke to seller and he said he’s ok to take it back if I decide so.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by PRSWILL

A watch of this age should be authenticated at an AR - take the back off and it will tell the whole story. The lug difference could be polishing, could be these were hand cut at the time and tolerances were not as great as today.

A Rolex case would never have left the factory that uneven, however long ago. It's been very crudely refinished. Anyway, OP isn't taking my advice so I'm done here.

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by josefrichter

I arranged a visit to authorized Rolex reseller and they will give me they opinion. Of course I want to keep the watch, but only if it’s legit :-) The reseller is 300 km from here, have to make the trip.

Do you think the Rolex reseller can also judge whether the diamonds are legit? I would ask a local jeweler in my town, but we’re in strict lockdown and no jeweler would even pick up the phone now :-o I was lucky to get hold of the Rolex folks, because watchmakers are allowed to repair watch during lockdown

I don’t mind the irregular lugs, as long as that is a result of fixing 50+ years old watch that had some dents, and not a result of being fake. I have to say that the dial looks so precise to me, that if it’s fake, it’s a super good one. But I’m no expert, so I’ll go see one. Wish me best of luck. I spoke to seller and he said he’s ok to take it back if I decide so.

Why keep this thing? Even if it’s fully legit, which it’s not likely, it’s gnarly. Surely you can, and must, do better.


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[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by PRSWILL

A watch of this age should be authenticated at an AR - take the back off and it will tell the whole story. The lug difference could be polishing, could be these were hand cut at the time and tolerances were not as great as today.

Cases have never been hand made. Hand polished yes, but this is the work of an inexperienced ‘polisher’ In my opinion it’s a hack job to hide damage without welding.

The hands are aftermarket as is the dial. Unless it was very cheap I’d be sending it back.