Any thoughts on this 6202 dial and bezel insert

[zerocool]

Both look good to me, with the usual 6202 marbling on the dial. I would, however, be grateful for an expert opinion.

Cheers

Screenshot_20160902-083000.jpg

[MonBK]

Looks a lot like Luke Ratmans watch?

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by MonBK

Looks a lot like Luke Ratmans watch?

Ha! My mind went there, too! But, not the same

[zerocool]

Yes a 6202 but definitely not the same (missing turn-o-graph writing?) Looks like a bad redial whoever's it is IMO.

Any thoughts about the originally posted 6202?

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by zerocool

Yes a 6202 but definitely not the same (missing turn-o-graph writing?) Looks like a bad redial whoever's it is IMO.

Any thoughts about the originally posted 6202?

Wait, you don't know about this (lengthy) tale?
Oh, boy. You may wanna pour yourself a drink....

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...highlight=6202

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by zerocool

Yes a 6202 but definitely not the same (missing turn-o-graph writing?) Looks like a bad redial whoever's it is IMO.

Any thoughts about the originally posted 6202?

Funny you would say that.

[zerocool]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Wait, you don't know about this (lengthy) tale?
Oh, boy. You may wanna pour yourself a drink....

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...highlight=6202

That was one of the most entertaining threads I've read in a while..

Any thoughts on the originally posted 6202 anyone?

[Matdaytona]

Originally Posted by zerocool

That was one of the most entertaining threads I've read in a while..

Any thoughts on the originally posted 6202 anyone?

It's not that time of the month already is it must beat Haywood to it sorry op 😊

[kappa]

K

[R.W.T.]

The dial and insert in the first photo look good to me albeit the insert as many are, is a bit rough.

The 6 o'clock marker is very very often whiter on these dials. It is intentional. Maybe a different lume compound. I don't know. Probably has been discussed before.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

The dial and insert in the first photo look good to me albeit the insert as many are, is a bit rough. Maybe a different lume compound. I don't know. Probably has been discussed before.

Nice to see a few non-crown-guard era Subs pop up lately. Such iconic watches.

Yes, the lighter colour lume on the '6' plot can be quite obvious on the 6202/6204/6205 era. Almost looks like a fault but for any readers scratching their heads, it was indeed intentional.

The use of a lighter lume on the '6' plot was an early warning for watchmakers that radium was in use on the dial plots. Later the exclamation mark was used and the underline and I'm thinking the doubled-up 'SWISS' text that we occasionally see may also have been a radium warning.

EDIT : Correcting myself here .... I'm now thinking the lighter coloured '6' marker and the exclamation mark were radium warnings ... while the underline and the double SWISS markings perhaps indicated the shift to tritium. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong on that .

A timely warning though for modern day watch enthusiasts about the on-going risks associated with radium. I was seeking out some cathedral hands for an old non-Rolex project on the weekend and for fun charged up this pot of very early hands with a torch. For the next ten minutes, many of the hands glowed like a Christmas tree. Vive la radium !

[zerocool]

Thanks for the great info R.W.T. and Paul. I was wondering about the lighter shade. And until now I never knew why underline dials existed either (or double swiss.)

Any thoughts on what the fair market value for a piece in this condition would be?

[zerocool]

A ballpark figure would help anyone.. it's been difficult finding prices for these models

[Paul]

Originally Posted by zerocool

A ballpark figure would help anyone.. it's been difficult finding prices for these models

Yip. It's just so seldom that the 620x watches come up for sale , so sales data is really thin. They slot in at the absolute hard-core collectors end of the market too so while big money can change hands .... a seller might wait a couple of years before he finds his deep-pocketed buyer. A few probably trade under the radar too - we'd possibly be quite surprised if we really knew haw many of these very early Subs are out there.

For an absolutely correct 6202 I might throw $30k out there as the ball-park figure you seek. With a dated clasp, correct spec. rivet bracelet I've seen price tags as high as $40k but I don't know if buyers would be easily found at that price point. And when only half a dozen ... perhaps less ... 620x watches pop up for sale to the general public each year, it's really hard to get a feel for value.

If I was buying, I'd hang around the forums and hope I might find a seller keen to move his 6202 along and accept my $25k. If I was selling I'd jump over the forums and head straight to a specialist auction and on a good day I might get a premium of $10k over that figure.

[mdw3]

6202 Turn-O-Graph models have fallen out of fashion with most of the collecting public these days, due to their slightly smaller size and slim case. In the past they might have traded in the range of other early "James Bond" subs, but no longer. A perfectly correct and original 6202 can easily be had under $20K, and in most cases, under $15K. I am regularly offered these, and the last one I had (which was completely original with original band, box, papers and manuals) I sold last year to another dealer for $12.5K.

Michael

Originally Posted by Paul

Yip. It's just so seldom that the 620x watches come up for sale , so sales data is really thin. They slot in at the absolute hard-core collectors end of the market too so while big money can change hands .... a seller might wait a couple of years before he finds his deep-pocketed buyer. A few probably trade under the radar too - we'd possibly be quite surprised if we really knew haw many of these very early Subs are out there.

For an absolutely correct 6202 I might throw $30k out there as the ball-park figure you seek. With a dated clasp, correct spec. rivet bracelet I've seen price tags as high as $40k but I don't know if buyers would be easily found at that price point. And when only half a dozen ... perhaps less ... 620x watches pop up for sale to the general public each year, it's really hard to get a feel for value.

If I was buying, I'd hang around the forums and hope I might find a seller keen to move his 6202 along and accept my $25k. If I was selling I'd jump over the forums and head straight to a specialist auction and on a good day I might get a premium of $10k over that figure.

[Paul]

With a bit of time now to surf around, I see prices are indeed way down on what I had in my mind. Quite a shift from where I understood prices to be.

The VRF history search is so difficult to navigate around but with a bit of perseverence I see prices of euro 10k+ being asked as far back as 1/08 for what I might call honest, complete 6202s. I seem to think they climbed higher too but fast forward to a scout around this evening, and I'm seeing prices that do seem to line up with mdw3's thoughts. That's fortuitous for me cos. a 6202 is a grail watch for me and if prices continue to back off I might be able to afford one

By chance, an eBay seller has a 6202 up for grabs without the crazy price tag we see sometimes for the more rare items. - i.e. it's a genuine low start auction that I guess will tell us how the market values a 6202 just now.

( NB. The eBay seller markets an odd mix of original and refinished vintage parts and watches ... which always scares me a bit. Discretion recommended as always if anyone fancies a 6202 just now ) .

http://m.ebay.com/itm/1953-RARE-GENU...909?nav=SEARCH

[mdw3]

Highly spotted dial and fake bezel on this one. There are too many nice 6202 in the world to bother buying a lousy example.

Michael

Originally Posted by Paul

By chance, an eBay seller has a 6202 up for grabs without the crazy price tag we see sometimes for the more rare items. - i.e. it's a genuine low start auction that I guess will tell us how the market values a 6202 just now.

( NB. The eBay seller markets an odd mix of original and refinished vintage parts and watches ... which always scares me a bit. Discretion recommended as always if anyone fancies a 6202 just now ) .

http://m.ebay.com/itm/1953-RARE-GENU...909?nav=SEARCH