How’s the condition and price on this 16800?

[ExplorerI]

https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...al-hands-A4872

Older version with the matte dial which id want.
Looks like the hands don’t quite match the patina on the dial. Seems like a reasonable price though in this market. Anything I’m missing?

[ExplorerI]

What could cause the hands to change color so differently than the dial?

[cbalster]

Not a vintage expert but I find most listings 25% overpriced on this website, and suspect this to be the same. The hands don't look right nor attractive to me against that dial. I'd keep hunting.

[MMG89]

Originally Posted by ExplorerI

What could cause the hands to change color so differently than the dial?

Can't speak to the condition or the price.

But Lume patinas in different ways based on how much has been applied and thickness etc. It's not uncommon to see the hand markers have a different patina compared to the markers etc.

[Tikandtokalot]

Wouldn't entertain it.
Looks off.

[mrs_LA]

Originally Posted by ExplorerI

https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...al-hands-A4872

Older version with the matte dial which id want.
Looks like the hands don’t quite match the patina on the dial. Seems like a reasonable price though in this market. Anything I’m missing?

Well priced for what it is, in my opinon. Case is a little soft but I think the price reflects the condition. A stronger case and more even, darker patina might fetch around $12-13k.

[Dan S]

The pricing is due to the weird lume in the hands and the damaged dial. I'm aware that hands and dial don't always age the same, but this pairing just doesn't feel right to me. And more importantly, it's not appealing.

[ExplorerI]

Seeing as this is not exactly a high value collector piece how bad would it be to swap out the hands at the next service to try to get them a bit closer?

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by ExplorerI

Seeing as this is not exactly a high value collector piece how bad would it be to swap out the hands at the next service to try to get them a bit closer?

Once you buy it, you can do whatever makes you happy.

[springer]

Originally Posted by ExplorerI

What could cause the hands to change color so differently than the dial?

I would guess that the original tritium hands were replaced with luminova hands at some point.

Then, later, to get the watch back to its state of original tritium hands, someone removed the luminova hands and found a set of tritium hands and put them on the watch and expect collectors to believe they are original and just discolored by time, moisture, the elements or whatever.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Dan S

The pricing is due to the weird lume in the hands and the damaged dial. I'm aware that hands and dial don't always age the same, but this pairing just doesn't feel right to me. And more importantly, it's not appealing.

Check my first post Dan, those hands aren't even close to original. The dealer speak "not all hands and dials age the same" is over abused anymore...way over played. Most don't match because they have been changed at some point in the life of the watch.

[TuRo]

Hands (matched to lume plot for sale) are just c $250-400 at this price so wouldn't affect my buying decision - the outer chips are very small - price is spot on to reflect that - I sold a spare16800 matte dial to Scott for £1300 few months back so watch could look pukka for $11500, but you are close to that for a spot on in the first place !

[Traveling]

Originally Posted by ExplorerI

https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...al-hands-A4872

Older version with the matte dial which id want.
Looks like the hands don’t quite match the patina on the dial. Seems like a reasonable price though in this market. Anything I’m missing?

Umm, 'hands don't quite match'. They are totally off.

Bottom right lug has been polished more than the others...typically of a watch that was worn

Edit: The dial looks new enough that maybe new hands would still match better

[rootbeer7]

Originally Posted by pauldavidthorpe

Hands (matched to lume plot for sale) are just c $250-400 at this price so wouldn't affect my buying decision - the outer chips are very small - price is spot on to reflect that - I sold a spare16800 matte dial to Scott for £1300 few months back so watch could look pukka for $11500, but you are close to that for a spot on in the first place !

And there you have it. There are spares everywhere. Most dealers have boxes of parts enabling them to create better versions of their watches. If anyone truly believes every vintage watch is all original you must be nuts! Unless it comes from original owner with guarantee of originality, treat pieces like the OP mentions as exactly a sum of its parts!

[swish77]

Originally Posted by pauldavidthorpe

Hands (matched to lume plot for sale) are just c $250-400 at this price so wouldn't affect my buying decision - the outer chips are very small - price is spot on to reflect that - I sold a spare16800 matte dial to Scott for £1300 few months back so watch could look pukka for $11500, but you are close to that for a spot on in the first place !

I assume you’re referring to color-matching hands, which is such a turn-off for a lot of collectors. And all this mixing and matching of dials/hands is also very unappealing and, more importantly for some, unoriginal.

If a buyer already has a budget in the $10K range to buy a vintage/classic Sub, much smarter to go a couple of grand more and buy a correct and more appealing example and not settle for a mismatched, questionable watch, IMHO.

[karleone]

Case is over polished (chamfers gone, one of the lug is very thin, polished surface rounded and not flat) + dial is damaged + hands not matching dial in terms of colour. I guess price takes into consideration all this but it’s a hard pass for me.

[Jack550]

reasonable price.. looks worth it

[n0bby]

Well well... After almost a year I finally managed to stumble across this thread again.

I bought this HQM Sub, back in March. I saw this thread back then, followed the link to the listing, and decided to go for it (I'm in the UK but had colleagues attending a conference in San Francisco later in March, and one of them picked it up at HQM). So thanks to TRF for introducing me to it!

The 16800 is the absolute sweet spot of Sub development to my eye: Matt dial, open 6/9 date, drilled lugs, sapphire crystal, ally insert. The best of the 4 and 5 digit series combined.

For me, the mis-matched lume and overall condition gives the watch real character, and I really couldn't be happier with it. I've got no desire to swap out the hands or try to "improve" it in any way at all. It gets worn in rotation with other watches, but it's the only one I'll regularly wear for several days at a time.

[TuRo]

✓ Very nice cheap matte 16800 imho nObby , think you did well not to haver over it too long , as it would have sold quickly at that price! A watch that you can wear without mithering over it too much also is great as it's anxiety free. Have a great Christmas

[n0bby]

Originally Posted by TuRo

✓ Very nice cheap matte 16800 imho nObby , think you did well not to haver over it too long , as it would have sold quickly at that price! A watch that you can wear without mithering over it too much also is great as it's anxiety free. Have a great Christmas

Thanks TuRo, I wish you a very merry Christmas too. And yes, you hit the nail on the head... the 16800 was inexpensive and well-worn enough that I consider it as my "beater" watch, which is precisely what a Sub was designed to be. This is in complete contrast to my 1992 16613, a full set, one other owner from new watch, which still has me on semi-tenterhooks every time I wear it because I'm so enamoured of its pristine condition!

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by n0bby

Well well... After almost a year I finally managed to stumble across this thread again.

I bought this HQM Sub, back in March. I saw this thread back then, followed the link to the listing, and decided to go for it (I'm in the UK but had colleagues attending a conference in San Francisco later in March, and one of them picked it up at HQM). So thanks to TRF for introducing me to it!

The 16800 is the absolute sweet spot of Sub development to my eye: Matt dial, open 6/9 date, drilled lugs, sapphire crystal, ally insert. The best of the 4 and 5 digit series combined.

For me, the mis-matched lume and overall condition gives the watch real character, and I really couldn't be happier with it. I've got no desire to swap out the hands or try to "improve" it in any way at all. It gets worn in rotation with other watches, but it's the only one I'll regularly wear for several days at a time.

Health to enjoy!

Merry Christmas.

[Dan S]

For every watch, there is a buyer, at the right price. I'm glad that you're enjoying it.