5513 Input Requested

[coalace]

Hello knowledgeable members

5513 example below is my late fathers, seeking input if it appears genuine, touched up, serviced etc... as the dial is peculiar to me (note I am still learning the ropes of vintage subs and the endless dial variations) He had this in his possession for quite some time, 30yrs+, not sure of its exact origins though. Movement is still functioning although the stem has rusted through from water damage.

Serial 1.3xx.xxx, meters first, Swiss @ 6 marking appears to be chipped off, (similar chipping elsewhere on outside of dial as well) no underlines or exclamation dot, 660ft 6's appear to be closed, rounded crown guards, lume is quite strong, specs/flake on dial present from either lume or salt water damage.

1 bracelet appears to be a late 70s C&I rivet, other looks non genuine

case opening tools enroute so I can take a peak at the case back info as well

TIA

[Dan S]

I agree the dial looks strange, as does the flip-lock bracelet. Perhaps it is a service dial that I'm not familiar with, but I don't recognize it at first glance. I believe that 1.3M would originally have had a glossy dial with gilt print.

[offrdmania]

Dial looks like a bad relume job

[Filipão]

It has been serviced sometime, crystal is "service".

Maybe the OP can fine sand it and then polish it to get better images of the dial?

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Dial looks like a bad relume job

I'm more concerned about the printing.

[linesiders]

First off, how happy I would be to have my dad's watch - good for you, I mean it.

Dial looks refinished, surely relumed.

To make it clean you would need a new dial, hands, and crystal.

If it is 1,3xx,xxx then it had a gilt dial, which is long gone and going to be 5-15 grand to source a replacement. I know of a 1968 meter's first dial that would work (confirm it says 5513 and not 5512) and would be much closer to 2K. Going to need hands, going to need service. Insert is pretty nice even though it is one generation newer, was probably installed when the 77 C&I bracelet was added.

I would be concerned about rust/water damage. If you are lucky that is just your dad's DNA.

Sorry about your dad, very happy for you that you can bring a tactile memory around with you.

[coalace]

Originally Posted by Filipão

Maybe the OP can fine sand it and then polish it to get better images of the dial?

Slightly clearer shots after some toothpaste polishing:

[LateLearner]

To the experts—are the hands the correct “flat” set for a gilt? I agree the dial isn’t original.

The relume—what type lume was used for the green glow under UV?


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[alwayshere]

agree with the others here.

1) dial 100% refinished
2) I think bezel insert, crown and hands were all replaced at a service at some point. That crown looks like a 702? Someone correct me. Orginal hands most likely had been gilt with that serial.
3) Sigificiant rust build up around the crystal means you should open up the caseback and check movement. Sometimes the rust can build up around the retaining ring under the bezel which may crept into the crystal over time especially if the crystal edges have cracked. In any event, get that checked as rust in movement will be hard to repair.

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

agree with the others here.

That crown looks like a 702? Someone correct me. .

crown is a 700. The 702 has 3 dots

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by LateLearner

To the experts—are the hands the correct “flat” set for a gilt? I agree the dial isn’t original.

The relume—what type lume was used for the green glow under UV?


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No expert, but these hands don't seem flat to me. zinc sulfide lume is green under UV but these markers could be relumed.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by swaini3

crown is a 700. The 702 has 3 dots

thank you - are you right.

[southtexas]

dial is definitely refinished/relumed. 2nd bracelet (fliplock one) is fake. Insert is awesome. Hard to judge hands from the pics. Case looks nice. As mentioned, you can find a decent (later) dial that won't break the bank if you're patient and get lucky.

[RFC]

According to mattedial.com for meters first dials

“the “6’s” in the depth rating are semi-open and to my eye appear that the top is rotated a couple degrees in the clockwise direction. I use the term semi-open here because it may take a 10X loupe to show that the “6’s” are in fact non closed.”

These 6’s in the pics don’t look open to me.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by RFC

According to mattedial.com for meters first dials

“the “6’s” in the depth rating are semi-open and to my eye appear that the top is rotated a couple degrees in the clockwise direction. I use the term semi-open here because it may take a 10X loupe to show that the “6’s” are in fact non closed.”

These 6’s in the pics don’t look open to me.

this was already determined to be a refinished dial.

[coalace]

Sorry for the delay, case back was seized and I was finally able to persuade it to open this evening!

seeing '65 date, '83 & '92 service, 26 jewel (26 imply movement was replaced previously?), and rust/water damage as suspected

let me know what you guys can put together with the additional info as we collectively unravel the riddle

Thanks to all who have contributed so far, your input is very much appreciated

[Dan S]

Your case serial number (1.3M) and case-back date (IV.65) are consistent.

[coalace]

dial close up, & the reason this one was shelved long ago, broken stem screw

[Dan S]

I don't think I need to see any more photos of the front of the dial. It's 100% clear that it is repainted IMO. Really, it's up to you what you'd like to do regarding the dial. Wear it, refinish it, replace it. Take your time and give it some thought. I have a watch that I inherited from my father with a refinished dial, and I chose to just leave it as he wore it. However, yours is much more special and valuable as a watch.

[LateLearner]

Originally Posted by coalace

Sorry for the delay, case back was seized and I was finally able to persuade it to open this evening!

seeing '65 date, '83 & '92 service, 26 jewel (26 imply movement was replaced previously?), and rust/water damage as suspected

let me know what you guys can put together with the additional info as we collectively unravel the riddle

Thanks to all who have contributed so far, your input is very much appreciated

Your serial is consistent with my 5513, which is 1.28M and case back 3rd quarter 1965.


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[LateLearner]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I don't think I need to see any more photos of the front of the dial. It's 100% clear that it is repainted IMO. Really, it's up to you what you'd like to do regarding the dial. Wear it, refinish it, replace it. Take your time and give it some thought. I have a watch that I inherited from my father with a refinished dial, and I chose to just leave it as he wore it. However, yours is much more special and valuable as a watch.

With the crystal off, what are your thoughts on the hand set?

Flat or curved?

Is the seconds hand longer than the minute hand? Shouldn’t both be 12mm?


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[LateLearner]

OP,
Do you have access to a Geiger? They are available on Amazon.

I’d be interested in seeing what it reads directly over the dial?


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[coalace]

Originally Posted by LateLearner

OP,
Do you have access to a Geiger? They are available on Amazon.

I’d be interested in seeing what it reads directly over the dial?


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I do not, i'd be curious to see myself as well but feels wastefull to spend a saw buck or two on something i'd likely never use again. Then again could always return to amazon...

if anyones got one kicking around collecting dust, I can cover shipping back and forth if they are open to lending

[1watch]

Sorry to say, but since you inquired, the dial appears to either be fake or redone


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[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

this was already determined to be a refinished dial.

Originally Posted by 1watch

Sorry to say, but since you inquired, the dial appears to either be fake or redone


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I believe that’s been established in more than a few previous posts.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by coalace

I do not, i'd be curious to see myself as well but feels wastefull to spend a saw buck or two on something i'd likely never use again. Then again could always return to amazon...

if anyones got one kicking around collecting dust, I can cover shipping back and forth if they are open to lending

Personally, I don't see any upside in getting Geiger counter readings for this particular dial.

[offrdmania]

Personally, since the watch is an heirloom; I would send it to the Ridleys and have it serviced since there is a ton of rust. They can source some hands and possibly revive the crystal and you can leave the dial in the meantime the way it is until you decide what to do. They will get the watch back into a wearable order without harming its collector value

[LateLearner]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Personally, I don't see any upside in getting Geiger counter readings for this particular dial.

The reason I asked, I didn’t see the point in getting a Geiger until a restoration expert asked me if my 5513 had been checked for radium. Didn’t think it was possible, despite the sorry relume. Until it did. The relume on this watch reminds me of the radium relume on my 1965 5513.


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[LateLearner]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Personally, since the watch is an heirloom; I would send it to the Ridleys and have it serviced since there is a ton of rust. They can source some hands and possibly revive the crystal and you can leave the dial in the meantime the way it is until you decide what to do. They will get the watch back into a wearable order without harming its collector value

Concur on Phillip Ridley.


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[1watch]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

I believe that’s been established in more than a few previous posts.

There’s a difference between reprinted, relumed and outright fake, which I wouldn’t rule out from the pics. That’s why I shared my opinion and included as a possibility.


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