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Old 17 September 2016, 11:02 AM   #1
Pingparme
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Has anyone noticed that Richemont group is running out of ideas with its weaker brands?

It seems that Richemont has embarked on the idea of letting weaker brands in its lineup to copy its stronger brands such as JLC or IWC and even market leaders such Patek etc. Why would they want to cannibalize their stronger brands and even straightfowardly copy others? Richemont is a a strong group, with very respected lineup of brands. It is surprising that they have decided to go with this copycat strategy. These are only some examples :



Piaget Polo vs Patek



IWC Portuguese?



JLC Geophysic?



JLC Master Calendar?



Patek Worldtime?



Blancpain Fifty Fathoms



Patek / Breguet combi?





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Old 17 September 2016, 11:08 AM   #2
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Hublot has been doing it for years.
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Old 17 September 2016, 11:31 AM   #3
Pingparme
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Texex91 yes Hublot is well known for having done that. Richemont however is a new trend since they reshuffled managements at the helm of these said brands in recent times


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Old 17 September 2016, 11:36 AM   #4
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Point is not surprised by Richemont...they need to start cutting costs somehow. R&D is probably a good place to start for many of their brands.
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Old 17 September 2016, 11:39 AM   #5
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Yes it seems logical texex91, it will be interesting to see if there is any impact on brand image going forward. A interesting case study to observe


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Old 17 September 2016, 12:06 PM   #6
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It is difficult to be unique, at any price point. Especially with Baume et Mercier, Richemont has offered classic watches at a competitive price point. I am a bit surprised by the Montblancs but again, they try to offer a good product, with a familiar design.

Isn't the sub inspired by the FF?
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Old 17 September 2016, 12:43 PM   #7
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Yep so true!
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Old 19 September 2016, 09:18 PM   #8
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Yes the new Polo S looks alot like the Nautilus, and the Montblanc WT looks a bit like Vacheron's WT. The Minerva chrono movement in the last pic probably has better finish than a Patek or Breguet though.
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Old 20 September 2016, 01:28 AM   #9
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What a rather pointless thread, given that brands have been pinching design ideas from each other since God knows when.
And the irony is this is being raised on a Rolex forum, who took influence from Blancpain.
I'd also be interested to know when Patek first put a flattened map of the globe on their WT dial — I suspect it was well after Edox did it on their Geoscope 48, in 1970.
Add in the Frederique Constant WT, and you have the Montblanc pictured.
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Old 20 September 2016, 06:34 AM   #10
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They do say that "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".
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Old 20 September 2016, 06:48 AM   #11
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I prefer Montblanc for their pens, not watches
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Old 20 September 2016, 09:32 AM   #12
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Jon_jon, well said! PJ S, absolutely, Frederique Constant has been doing it too. Sorry PJ S, my knowledge about watches don't go far back, I was just surprised by the decisions made by such a big group as Richemont, to let it's brands copy each other, cannibalizing DNAs. I would have thought that they would just concentrate on each brands strength and highlight the heritage (Piaget with ultrathin movements, Altiplano, Baume et Mercier with Hampton, etc). They have done it so openly (as opposed to being discreet) and in such a big way since management reshuffle that it seems surprising. Since this is a watch forum, I just wanted to have others' points of view on this. Yes brands have been copying each other, but I don't think in this open fashioned way?? Perhaps there have been times like this too in the long past, I would be very keen to learn about it and see what that brand has become today. Thank you again


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Old 20 September 2016, 10:04 AM   #13
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Frederique Constant is in their starting blocks, just like how Hublot started off, getting inspiration from Genta. Richemont is a big and established group however. Chopard recently acquired Berthoud but apart from sharing knwoledge, Berthoud has been revived trying to use Berthoud's original DNA. Perhaps texex91's response is probably the most accurate, but saving on R&D by outright copying seems just so wrong for these long established brands


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Old 20 September 2016, 11:44 AM   #14
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I do like the new Drive by Cartier, not so much their other brands
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Old 20 September 2016, 11:43 PM   #15
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I love JLC. Great movements and value for money. I especially love the Master Ultra Thin and Duometre lines.
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Old 19 November 2016, 03:52 PM   #16
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Old 19 November 2016, 07:33 PM   #17
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Outside of the Polo (attempt at Genta look), I don't see many similarities in the watches that you have mentioned. Not a surprising point that watch makers try to sell watches by copying each other's successful designs.
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Old 20 November 2016, 09:06 PM   #18
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I don't see the big deal with this, doesn't rolex do the same with the Tudor brand? Similar designs at different price points.


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Old 21 November 2016, 07:00 AM   #19
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Looking at some of their recent offerings... doing copies isn't such a bad idea.
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Old 23 November 2016, 07:14 PM   #20
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Rolex and Tudor always shared many similarities from the beginnings and today, Rolex has decided to use Tudor to capture a different target market with models reminiscent of some of the more popular vintage pieces and at a much lower price point. There is logic here in the group's strategy and I like what they are doing. It makes sense.

Richemont on the other hand takes iconic pieces from, say, JLC and passes on to Baume et Mercier. And IWC to Montblanc etc etc. Then they launched the Polo by Piaget........It becomes a big melting pot, and soon enough, all the brands will have same looking items and they will loose their DNA/Heritage. It seems to me to be tell tale signs of a desperate group. It's a pity because I had a lot of respect for Richemont. Maybe it's just me having problems with this. Just disappointed with the way they go forward.

Anyways, always interesting to see different points of views and what forum members have already contributed.

Thank you again.

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Old 23 November 2016, 09:46 PM   #21
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RW Smith looks like a George Andersen
a George Andersen looks like a Breguet
a Voutilainen loks liek an Urban Jurgensen
a PP 5524 looks like an IWC pilot or Zenith
a..a...a...a...
all copy each other
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Old 24 November 2016, 02:10 AM   #22
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There's nothing new here.

Even the highest end watches borrow from each other and it's been happening since the first hominin made the first object.
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Old 24 November 2016, 02:28 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pingparme View Post
[...]Richemont is a a strong group, with very respected lineup of brands. It is surprising that they have decided to go with this copycat strategy. These are only some examples :



Piaget Polo vs Patek[...]
It's even more blatant when you compare it to the Aquanaut on bracelet:



For at least the past ten years, Richemont has been systematically attempting to turn most of its holdings into another Panerai by making everything bloated and trendy, with a heavy emphasis on meaningless limited editions. But it's stopped working for Panerai, and it's a pity when companies with legitimate history of their own (IWC and Cartier in particular, and JLC to a lesser extent) are reduced to making bulky fashion watches with lame, derivative designs that are poorly-drafted on top of it.

So I'm not surprised in the least that they're bereft of ideas; I just don't see much design competency with them, except for Lange.

Quote:
Originally Posted by themast View Post
[...]Isn't the sub inspired by the FF?
Nope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott View Post
There's nothing new here.

Even the highest end watches borrow from each other and it's been happening since the first hominin made the first object.
Just because some companies engage in plagiarism doesn't mean that they all do. And there is such a thing as originality, rare though it may be in the watch world. ;)
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Old 24 November 2016, 02:48 AM   #24
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Quote:
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RW Smith looks like a George Andersen
a George Andersen looks like a Breguet
a Voutilainen loks liek an Urban Jurgensen
a PP 5524 looks like an IWC pilot or Zenith
a..a...a...a...
all copy each other
Think I was on drugs here. The Sven Andersen WT looks like PP 5510 and it's a Daniels that looks like a breguet
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Old 24 November 2016, 03:39 AM   #25
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From everything I've heard from people in the company and outside news people, Richemont is pretty hands off in regards to specific models from each company...
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Old 24 November 2016, 03:47 AM   #26
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These are all good points. Probably won't hurt the brand as they probably done much market research before making these decisions.

Also like texas said its cheaper to copy stuff then to develop new watches. So if they sell projected numbers of a watch that was easily and cheaply developed.
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Old 24 November 2016, 11:32 AM   #27
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I see no wrong here: you match design to the price point of the people buying. The smaller the budget the more risk averse the buyer. That being true why wouldn't you copy great design?

Look at the Ford Explorer and the Range Rover. Pretty clear you copy great design at the right point in time to satisfy your mass market buyer.
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Old 24 November 2016, 01:55 PM   #28
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Quote:
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Isn't the sub inspired by the FF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by belligero View Post

Nope.
Well, the FF came before the Submariner. One can say that they were developed at the same time, independently, and that is perhaps a fair statement.
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Old 26 November 2016, 01:27 AM   #29
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Everything I've read points toward Richemont being in the tank.
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Old 28 November 2016, 12:32 PM   #30
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I looked at the Polo over the weekend. $9K+ and $12K+ for the chrono. They were nice, but I felt half the price is in the brand name for implied exclusivity. Lots of other watches in that price range I like better. The attraction to it for me was the similarity to the PP's. but on the wrist it really doesn't measure up.

I'm sure richemont has looked at the models from higher end brands and tried to capture those looks in the lower end. Makes sense if, as suggested above, they are struggling.
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