1680 white meters first

[willdill]

Hi all,

I'm doing some research on valuation for my dad's 1680. Serial number is in the 5,500,000 range so it's about a 1978. As the title says, it's white with meters first. But, the more interesting attribute that is the real reason for this post is, the depth rating is above the word submariner. I have been researching this all day and I haven't come across any others like that. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

Thanks.

[swish77]

Dial is either redone/refinished or fake. There were no meters-first white 1680s, and the serial number is off too. And as you point out, the position of the depth rating is wrong.

Do you have photos showing the engravings between the lugs? Movement?

As for value ... you'd need to present more information, but with that dial the value plummets dramatically, even if the rest is legit.

[stevedssd]

Originally Posted by swish77

Dial is either redone/refinished or fake. There were no meters-first white 1680s, and the serial number is off too. And as you point out, the position of the depth rating is wrong.

Do you have photos showing the engravings between the lugs? Movement?

As for value ... you'd need to present more information, but with that dial the value plummets dramatically, even if the rest is legit.

+1 and more photo's please

[Swearengen]

One of the stranger faux dials that has popped up in a while

[dhknola]

Does anyone else think it's pretty good for a faux dial? I know it's 'not right', but it does not look as blatantly altered like most re-dials.

[1665fan]

Junk

[willdill]

Here are some more pics, I know the quality sucks, sorry. Is it undisputed that there were no white meters-first 1680's made? I've noticed other models (5513) have submariner below the depth rating.

[Styles Bitchley]

Even at that distance the engraving looks wrong. Dial is wrong for sure. Best case is someone cut a date window in a 5513 dial!

[Robtayham]

It could be a very nice watch, so don’t take any chances. You’d be best served by sending it to a RSC and asking them for a service estimate. They will provide you an estimate that will highlight any observable issues, like fake parts. You don’t have to have the work done, but it will be better than asking strangers on the internet to make guesses based on photos.

[1675-David]

Originally Posted by Styles Bitchley

Best case is someone cut a date window in a 5513 dial!

WOW!! but even better case would be someone cut a date window in a Meters First 5512 dial.... kinda looks like it!

Obviously a bit of a mash up but potentially a quirky cool watch

[oysterquartz17000]

Originally Posted by 1665fan

Junk

Really? A guy is asking for information about his dads watch and that's your reply?

[swish77]

Originally Posted by willdill

Here are some more pics, I know the quality sucks, sorry. Is it undisputed that there were no white meters-first 1680's made? I've noticed other models (5513) have submariner below the depth rating.

Yes, undisputed. And 1680s and 5513s were very different.

Here's what I would do: Take the watch to an RSC and tell them you want to restore your dad's watch, but you think an independent watchmaker messed up the dial years ago. They'll evaluate the watch and tell you everything you need to know, including whether the whole thing is fake or not. And if only the dial is a problem, presumably they'd install a service dial during a full service, which would be expensive. Or you can just decline a service, but you'll have your answer.

For the record, the bracelet clasp looks good, with a 1978 date code (VC).

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by swish77

Yes, undisputed. And 1680s and 5513s were very different.

Here's what I would do: Take the watch to an RSC and tell them you want to restore your dad's watch, but you think an independent watchmaker messed up the dial years ago. They'll evaluate the watch and tell you everything you need to know, including whether the whole thing is fake or not. And if only the dial is a problem, presumably they'd install a service dial during a full service, which would be expensive. Or you can just decline a service, but you'll have your answer.

For the record, the bracelet clasp looks good, with a 1978 date code (VC).

This. It's your dad's watch, so it should be treasured regardless of what you find out about it.

[Swearengen]

I wonder why someone would butcher a 5512 m-first dial, must be worth more than a white 1680 dial? More likley its a bad redial and they used the wrong template.

Originally Posted by 1675-David

WOW!! but even better case would be someone cut a date window in a Meters First 5512 dial.... kinda looks like it!

Obviously a bit of a mash up but potentially a quirky cool watch

[willdill]

Update:

I went and visited my local authorized retailer today. He is totally stumped, but like some other commenters on here, he believes it really looks way too good to be a knockoff service dial. In fact he thinks the only work that was done was on the lumes and the dial is original as bizarre as that is. Of course this opinion is based solely on looking at it with a gem loupe. He did take off the back cover and confirmed that it has 1575 movement, so it is genuine.

He offered me 5k as is without hesitation, but in reality what if this is some sort of one off or anomaly? Next step is to pay to have it taken apart so I can see the back of the dial. I'll post pictures once I get that done.

[1675-David]

Can’t wait!!

[Kingface66]

A never-before seen, authentic Rolex one-off anomaly? Oh man, it’d be cool if I If was, but there’s just no way.

[willdill]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

A never-before seen, authentic Rolex one-off anomaly? Oh man, it’d be cool if I If was, but there’s just no way.

Either way this has been a fun little mystery, I've certainly learned more about submariners in the past few days than I ever thought I could possibly know.

[Styles Bitchley]

Super interesting. I’d love to see some really close up high res photos of the dial.

[willdill]

Update 2:

Went to a local watchmaker today who also happens to be a rolex enthusiast. Attached are some photos of the movement, front of the dial and back of the dial. This guy was also stumped. He also believes that the lumens were restored but the dial is original. What say the experts in here?

[btinl]

I think the dial is completely refinished. The fonts look off.

[Styles Bitchley]

Yeah. I think it's a good attempt at creating a 5512 m first layout on a 1680. But it's not right. Even the = looks to be smudged together... The fonts just aren't crisp.

[willdill]

[QUOTE=Styles Bitchley;10005093]Yeah. I think it's a good attempt at creating a 5512 m first layout on a 1680. But it's not right. Even the = looks to be smudged together... The fonts just aren't crisp.


I thought that too, but there are many 5512's that have that kind of "smudged" look on the equal sign.

[stevedssd]

Interesting......the rear of the dial doesn't have the markings of any of the manufacturers of dials at that time, Stern, Singer, Beyeler or Lemrich (the latter two being the manufacturers of White 1680 dials).

I guess a question could be: Why would Rolex cease the production of meters first dials around the 2.45M serial number circa 1970 and then in the midst of the production of the three feet first white dials in 1978, produce a one off meters first dial, without any of the manufacturer markings on the rear of the dial. In my view they wouldn't.

Taking the dial out and posting photo's has added real value to an already interesting thread OP, thank you for taking the time and keeping us updated

[kwcsports]

Originally Posted by btinl

I think the dial is completely refinished. The fonts look off.

Agreed ^^^^

[Anchia7]

Really interesting post. Keep us posted.


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[willdill]

The dial is refinished, I've consulted with numerous people at this point. While everyone says it's a fantastic refinish job, unfortunately the value isn't there. What does the group think about the viability of purchasing a period replacement dial (I see them on ebay for $1250-$2k) to increase the sale value of the watch?

[dhknola]

I would source a new dial, but your dad went through the trouble to make this 1680 his own, I’d keep as is; it’s charming imho.


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[willdill]

Originally Posted by dhknola

I would source a new dial, but your dad went through the trouble to make this 1680 his own, I’d keep as is; it’s charming imho.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeahhhh i promise you it wasn’t on purpose.

[BrazenC5]

Originally Posted by willdill

The dial is refinished, I've consulted with numerous people at this point. While everyone says it's a fantastic refinish job, unfortunately the value isn't there. What does the group think about the viability of purchasing a period replacement dial (I see them on ebay for $1250-$2k) to increase the sale value of the watch?

I would try and get it back to as period correct as possible, if you go that route you should also replace the service bezel insert with a period correct bezel insert.