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Old 1 January 2013, 12:43 PM   #1
Nodelicious
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Is the build quality of grand seiko greater than rolex?

I don't own a gs. I have a gv gauss.

Anyone with both - what's the deal?
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Old 1 January 2013, 02:25 PM   #2
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I don't own a gs. I have a gv gauss.

Anyone with both - what's the deal?
Don't own a grand seiko but I will go out on a limb (think a short one) and say no

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Old 1 January 2013, 02:26 PM   #3
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Don't own a grand seiko but I will go out on a limb (think a short one) and say no

I would have to agree with this. The GS is a nice watch but I don't think the build quality will ever be superior to a Rolex
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Old 1 January 2013, 02:32 PM   #4
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I often consider getting a grand seiko, then I realize that I could use the same amount of money to buy a JLC, Rolex, or Omega 8500.
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Old 1 January 2013, 02:34 PM   #5
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Absolutely the GS is better. Don't believe me? Get one of both and look at them under a loupe. No comparison.
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Old 1 January 2013, 02:35 PM   #6
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I've had both and IMO they're both of comparable quality.
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Old 1 January 2013, 03:20 PM   #7
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I've had both and IMO they're both of comparable quality.
From what I have seen I must agree. But as far as the man in the street goes, it is just a Seiko and you paid Rolex money for it.

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Old 1 January 2013, 03:30 PM   #8
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Absolutely the GS is better. Don't believe me? Get one of both and look at them under a loupe. No comparison.
Is Rolex product overpriced then? Or is GS the best deal in town?
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Old 1 January 2013, 04:33 PM   #9
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Is Rolex product overpriced then? Or is GS the best deal in town?
Prices are pretty comparable in a lot of ways.
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Old 1 January 2013, 04:58 PM   #10
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Considerably better, have a look at an SBGA003 under a loupe and you can see the level of detail in the alternating brushed and polished facets of the hour markers and hands, the detail is astonishing. By contrast Rolex managed to sell a pile of white Milgauss' into the market with defectively printed dial text... I don't think GS would let that slip by QA.

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Old 1 January 2013, 06:00 PM   #11
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Considerably better, have a look at an SBGA003 under a loupe and you can see the level of detail in the alternating brushed and polished facets of the hour markers and hands, the detail is astonishing. By contrast Rolex managed to sell a pile of white Milgauss' into the market with defectively printed dial text... I don't think GS would let that slip by QA.

What's defective?
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Old 1 January 2013, 06:05 PM   #12
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The text (milgauss) is not centered.
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Old 1 January 2013, 06:16 PM   #13
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Milgauss is on the centerline of the dial (as far as my eyes can tell).

It is the Rolex and Oyster Perpetual that are off center to the left.

Shoddy work. If I saw that watch on someone's wrist, not knowing better, I might think it a fake.

I was about to post something in favor of Rolex in this thread, but I think dsio made a point.
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Old 1 January 2013, 06:19 PM   #14
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You're right.

Maybe it will be worth more later on. :)
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Old 1 January 2013, 06:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg G View Post
Milgauss is on the centerline of the dial (as far as my eyes can tell).

It is the Rolex and Oyster Perpetual that are off center to the left.

Shoddy work. If I saw that watch on someone's wrist, not knowing better, I might think it a fake.

I was about to post something in favor of Rolex in this thread, but I think dsio made a point.
Its actually even more than that, the dial is printed with two colours, orange and black, each is stamped separately rather than all at once. The orange is lined up perfectly, from the chapter ring to the word Milgauss.

The black however is completely wrong, not only is the wording Rolex Oyster Perpetual wrong, but the words "Superlative Chronometer Officially Certified" are also offset the same amount, and even the "SWISS MADE" at the bottom of the dial is shifted to the left.
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Old 1 January 2013, 06:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg G View Post
Milgauss is on the centerline of the dial (as far as my eyes can tell).

It is the Rolex and Oyster Perpetual that are off center to the left.

Shoddy work. If I saw that watch on someone's wrist, not knowing better, I might think it a fake.

I was about to post something in favor of Rolex in this thread, but I think dsio made a point.
Never noticed but you can certainly see it from that angle......

You may have a new collectors rare, off center, Milgauss....lol
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Old 1 January 2013, 08:01 PM   #17
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I would love to own a GS at some point.
Had the opportunity to see and feel one in the flesh and man was I blown away.
What a piece of art, great finish and beauty.

Is the build quality of grand seiko greater than rolex?

Don't know, I am not a watchmaker, but please, try one and I promise you will be amazed on several levels.
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Old 1 January 2013, 08:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodelicious View Post
I don't own a gs.

Anyone with both - what's the deal?
Well at the moment I don't own a Seiko Grand but been looking for a vintage one for quite some time.And IMHO the Seiko Grand can match or surpass all of the Swiss mass produced watches even Rolex. But what they cannot match is the brand name nothing more or less, as today with the stereo brand conscious types many today don't wear the watch they just wear the brand..The Seiko Grand are fantastic watches and Grand Seikos are in a completely different league to the standard Seiko's, and should not be spoken about in the same breath. Grand Seikos are hand made and the vintage ones wiped the floor with the major Swiss brands for accuracy before today's watered down COSC was formed in 1973.

Now before the Swiss COSC was started they used to have Observatory testing and competitions to a much higher standard than todays Swiss COSC. And during the entire 23 years of testing, 5093 wristwatches were submitted for certification, and only 3253 were passed, about 64%, today around 94% pass the COSC test first time a big difference now truth be told today with careful regulation most any movement could pass todays test.Back in the 1960-70s just a few manufacturers participated, and only Omega and Patek did so every year. The other brands. were: Rolex, Zenith, Longines, Movado, Vacheron & Constantin, Ulysse Nardin, Cyma and Favre-Leuba, along with numerous independent professional watchmakers.

That was until the Seiko Grand come on the scene and started to wipe the floor with the Swiss mechanical watch industry.Now in those days only 2 brands in the + 23 years of the competitions submitted movements of only serial production for retail sale(Seiko and GP).All others were specially made movements just for the competition test and not then for retail sale.

Now Seiko first entered the competition,with other watches from all over the world,including most of the Swiss high end brands.But then for a much higher standard than todays COSC,the Astronomical Observatory Authorisation Chronometer Standard (+/- 2/3 seconds/day) Out of many watches submitted only two passed this test a Seiko Grand just a production model, and Giraud Peregaux this time a specially build for the test model.And in the late 1960s there were only two companies, who could sell watches, passed astronomical observatory authorisation Chronometer in those days. Seiko and Giraud Peregaux.As the Japanese had dominated the tests in the late 1960s and the two preceding events, in 1972 many of Swiss watch manufacturers demanded the end of the observatory competitions,and it was ended in 1973,now thats when the Swiss COSC was founded but run by the Swiss for the Swiss brands only.

Check out the regulator adjuster on this one! and movement finish. That's real quality and there own movement test, to a much higher spec than the Swiss COSC




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Old 1 January 2013, 09:36 PM   #19
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I've owned both GS and Rolex ...

IMHO, GS equal or better ... leaning more towards better
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Old 1 January 2013, 09:52 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodelicious View Post
I don't own a gs. I have a gv gauss.

Anyone with both - what's the deal?
GS all the way. I don't have one because it's a lot of money for a difficult to flip item, but I'm more and more tempted. My next visit to Tokyo I might give it a go, of course second hand.

This reminds me that COSC certification and Swiss horological competitions were banned to non-Swiss brands, after so many home runs by Seiko and others..... With their plain vanilla off the shelf models. That's more than proof to me of how scared Swiss Brands were of premium Asian competitors.

It is also true that, everywhere in Asia outside Japan, Rolex is unanimously recognized as THE Brand. It seems that unless you add savvy marketing, horological prowess on its own is not enough.....

To me GS is Haute Horology at Rolex prices, while Rolex is a mass-luxury product with a hefty price premium attached to it.

Happy new year.
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Old 1 January 2013, 10:24 PM   #21
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I would have to agree with this. The GS is a nice watch but I don't think the build quality will ever be superior to a Rolex
Will in many ways the Seiko Grand or any of the high end Seiko range can equal or better even Rolex except in brand name.
Quote:
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I often consider getting a grand seiko, then I realize that I could use the same amount of money to buy a JLC, Rolex, or Omega 8500.
Thats the main problem most people stereo type Seiko the brand as a producer of high street low end cost watches.Its much like many say about Tudor its not a Rolex but Tudor and Seiko Grand make excellent products.
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Old 1 January 2013, 10:39 PM   #22
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In term of build, it would be GS. But in term of branding and resale, Rolex is the one.
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Old 1 January 2013, 11:29 PM   #23
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In term of build, it would be GS. But in term of branding and resale, Rolex is the one.
I agree 100%. Got to try on a grand seiko in Japan and it was incredible.

I owned a seiko marine master which uses an unfinished grand seiko movement in it and the watch was great. Build quality blew my rolex out of the water , accuracy was crazy good and at the time one of the few brands that had a self quick adjustable bracelet clasp. This was back in 2003 IIRC.
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Old 1 January 2013, 11:29 PM   #24
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This is why I love this forum. I was not even aware of GS as a brand until I read this thread. Fascinating stuff, particularly Padi's tale of the early chronometer tests.

Prices for GS's seem reasonable too, considering what you get. The equivalent of a SS Sub Date is $7500 from one Seiko AD; the Rolex (last I checked) was $8000.

Of course, resale value and brand recognition favor the Rolex. I suppose the GS is for the person who wants the best and doesn't care whether the world knows he or she has it, or not. The wearer knows, and that's enough. I admire such folks.
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Old 1 January 2013, 11:58 PM   #25
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Unfortunately for me, the GS is just not overly attractive. I don't really care for the styling of any of their automatic models.

BTW, that's my White Milgauss!!!! Thanks for posting the picture

Off-centered text and all.........I still love it
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Old 1 January 2013, 11:59 PM   #26
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This is why I love this forum. I was not even aware of GS as a brand until I read this thread. Fascinating stuff, particularly Padi's tale of the early chronometer tests.
I read a lot of posters here were gifted Rolexs or are buying them to someday hand down as heirloom gifts. I think 99,9% of the general population being left or gifted a Rolex will understand and appreciate the gesture and know full well the aurora of Rolex, while those same people given a GS will think its just a watch, a sieko watch you can buy in any department store.

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Old 2 January 2013, 12:01 AM   #27
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Well at the moment I don't own a Seiko Grand but been looking for a vintage one for quite some time.And IMHO the Seiko Grand can match or surpass all of the Swiss mass produced watches even Rolex. But what they cannot match is the brand name nothing more or less, as today with the stereo brand conscious types many today don't wear the watch they just wear the brand..The Seiko Grand are fantastic watches and Grand Seikos are in a completely different league to the standard Seiko's, and should not be spoken about in the same breath. Grand Seikos are hand made and the vintage ones wiped the floor with the major Swiss brands for accuracy before today's watered down COSC was formed in 1973.

Now before the Swiss COSC was started they used to have Observatory testing and competitions to a much higher standard than todays Swiss COSC. And during the entire 23 years of testing, 5093 wristwatches were submitted for certification, and only 3253 were passed, about 64%, today around 94% pass the COSC test first time a big difference now truth be told today with careful regulation most any movement could pass todays test.Back in the 1960-70s just a few manufacturers participated, and only Omega and Patek did so every year. The other brands. were: Rolex, Zenith, Longines, Movado, Vacheron & Constantin, Ulysse Nardin, Cyma and Favre-Leuba, along with numerous independent professional watchmakers.

That was until the Seiko Grand come on the scene and started to wipe the floor with the Swiss mechanical watch industry.Now in those days only 2 brands in the + 23 years of the competitions submitted movements of only serial production for retail sale(Seiko and GP).All others were specially made movements just for the competition test and not then for retail sale.

Now Seiko first entered the competition,with other watches from all over the world,including most of the Swiss high end brands.But then for a much higher standard than todays COSC,the Astronomical Observatory Authorisation Chronometer Standard (+/- 2/3 seconds/day) Out of many watches submitted only two passed this test a Seiko Grand just a production model, and Giraud Peregaux this time a specially build for the test model.And in the late 1960s there were only two companies, who could sell watches, passed astronomical observatory authorisation Chronometer in those days. Seiko and Giraud Peregaux.As the Japanese had dominated the tests in the late 1960s and the two preceding events, in 1972 many of Swiss watch manufacturers demanded the end of the observatory competitions,and it was ended in 1973,now thats when the Swiss COSC was founded but run by the Swiss for the Swiss brands only.

Check out the regulator adjuster on this one! and movement finish. That's real quality and there own movement test, to a much higher spec than the Swiss COSC




What would someone actually pay for a vintage GS, assuming one could be found at a reasonable price? Good response, by the way.
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Old 2 January 2013, 12:11 AM   #28
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Unfortunately for me, the GS is just not overly attractive. I don't really care for the styling of any of their automatic models.

BTW, that's my White Milgauss!!!! Thanks for posting the picture

Off-centered text and all.........I still love it
Would agree on some of the Seiko grands style,but same could be said about Patek and most other brands.Although Patek make great movements myself just don't like most of there style in watches. And even if I was very wealthy for that reason I would not buy most Patek watches as myself don't wear just a brand..
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Old 2 January 2013, 12:15 AM   #29
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You're right.

Maybe it will be worth more later on. :)
The rare Milgauss "error dial".
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Old 2 January 2013, 12:16 AM   #30
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BAD QA could be a very good investment in the future
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