The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum > Rolex & Tudor Watch Topics > Rolex General Discussion

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 1 January 2013, 12:43 PM   #1
Nodelicious
"TRF" Member
 
Nodelicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 121
Is the build quality of grand seiko greater than rolex?

I don't own a gs. I have a gv gauss.

Anyone with both - what's the deal?
Nodelicious is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 02:25 PM   #2
SUBversive
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: ri
Watch: Sun Dial
Posts: 14,352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodelicious View Post
I don't own a gs. I have a gv gauss.

Anyone with both - what's the deal?
Don't own a grand seiko but I will go out on a limb (think a short one) and say no

SUBversive is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 02:26 PM   #3
financeman
"TRF" Member
 
financeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Real Name: Heath
Location: Lawrenceburg KY
Watch: Submariner
Posts: 3,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUBversive View Post
Don't own a grand seiko but I will go out on a limb (think a short one) and say no

I would have to agree with this. The GS is a nice watch but I don't think the build quality will ever be superior to a Rolex
__________________
“You may delay, but time will not.”
― Benjamin Franklin

financeman is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 02:32 PM   #4
jlc123
"TRF" Member
 
jlc123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: United States
Watch: Overseas
Posts: 992
I often consider getting a grand seiko, then I realize that I could use the same amount of money to buy a JLC, Rolex, or Omega 8500.
jlc123 is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 02:34 PM   #5
gslaskin
"TRF" Member
 
gslaskin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 429
Absolutely the GS is better. Don't believe me? Get one of both and look at them under a loupe. No comparison.
__________________
www.eclecticgearhead.com
gslaskin is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 02:35 PM   #6
kilyung
"TRF" Member
 
kilyung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cave
Watch: Sundial
Posts: 33,505
I've had both and IMO they're both of comparable quality.
kilyung is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 03:20 PM   #7
gregvisser
"TRF" Member
 
gregvisser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Real Name: Greg Visser
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilyung View Post
I've had both and IMO they're both of comparable quality.
From what I have seen I must agree. But as far as the man in the street goes, it is just a Seiko and you paid Rolex money for it.

Greg
gregvisser is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 03:30 PM   #8
Nodelicious
"TRF" Member
 
Nodelicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by gslaskin View Post
Absolutely the GS is better. Don't believe me? Get one of both and look at them under a loupe. No comparison.
Is Rolex product overpriced then? Or is GS the best deal in town?
Nodelicious is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 04:33 PM   #9
ecsub44
"TRF" Member
 
ecsub44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: US
Watch: Sub
Posts: 3,175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodelicious View Post
Is Rolex product overpriced then? Or is GS the best deal in town?
Prices are pretty comparable in a lot of ways.
__________________
侘 寂 -- wabi-sabi -- acceptance of transience and imperfection by finding beauty in that which is imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete

Commissioner of WEIRD POLICE , Badge # ecsub44
ecsub44 is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 04:58 PM   #10
dsio
"TRF" Member
 
dsio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Real Name: Ashley
Location: Brisbane
Watch: Rolex Sub 1680 '79
Posts: 2,299
Considerably better, have a look at an SBGA003 under a loupe and you can see the level of detail in the alternating brushed and polished facets of the hour markers and hands, the detail is astonishing. By contrast Rolex managed to sell a pile of white Milgauss' into the market with defectively printed dial text... I don't think GS would let that slip by QA.

__________________
-- Omega Seamaster Grand-Lux Stepped Pie-Pan 14K Gold OJ2627 '53 --
-- Omega Cal 320 Chronograph 18K Gold OT2872 '58 --
-- Omega Cal 321 Speedmaster Pro 145.012 '67 --
-- Rolex Submariner 1680 "Ghost" '79 --
-- Rolex SS Daytona 116520 '04 --
dsio is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 06:00 PM   #11
Flyjet601
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Watch: All of them
Posts: 2,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsio View Post
Considerably better, have a look at an SBGA003 under a loupe and you can see the level of detail in the alternating brushed and polished facets of the hour markers and hands, the detail is astonishing. By contrast Rolex managed to sell a pile of white Milgauss' into the market with defectively printed dial text... I don't think GS would let that slip by QA.

What's defective?
__________________
I used to be indecisive, now I'm not sure
Flyjet601 is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 06:05 PM   #12
Furbo
"TRF" Member
 
Furbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Slovenia, EU
Watch: BLNR
Posts: 1,506
The text (milgauss) is not centered.
Furbo is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 06:16 PM   #13
Greg G
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Houston
Watch: Sub-C
Posts: 181
Milgauss is on the centerline of the dial (as far as my eyes can tell).

It is the Rolex and Oyster Perpetual that are off center to the left.

Shoddy work. If I saw that watch on someone's wrist, not knowing better, I might think it a fake.

I was about to post something in favor of Rolex in this thread, but I think dsio made a point.
__________________
"Whatever watch it is, it's that man's watch and it's very poor form to criticize another man's watch. "


GradyPhilpott
Greg G is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 06:19 PM   #14
Furbo
"TRF" Member
 
Furbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Slovenia, EU
Watch: BLNR
Posts: 1,506
You're right.

Maybe it will be worth more later on. :)
Furbo is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 06:36 PM   #15
dsio
"TRF" Member
 
dsio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Real Name: Ashley
Location: Brisbane
Watch: Rolex Sub 1680 '79
Posts: 2,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg G View Post
Milgauss is on the centerline of the dial (as far as my eyes can tell).

It is the Rolex and Oyster Perpetual that are off center to the left.

Shoddy work. If I saw that watch on someone's wrist, not knowing better, I might think it a fake.

I was about to post something in favor of Rolex in this thread, but I think dsio made a point.
Its actually even more than that, the dial is printed with two colours, orange and black, each is stamped separately rather than all at once. The orange is lined up perfectly, from the chapter ring to the word Milgauss.

The black however is completely wrong, not only is the wording Rolex Oyster Perpetual wrong, but the words "Superlative Chronometer Officially Certified" are also offset the same amount, and even the "SWISS MADE" at the bottom of the dial is shifted to the left.
__________________
-- Omega Seamaster Grand-Lux Stepped Pie-Pan 14K Gold OJ2627 '53 --
-- Omega Cal 320 Chronograph 18K Gold OT2872 '58 --
-- Omega Cal 321 Speedmaster Pro 145.012 '67 --
-- Rolex Submariner 1680 "Ghost" '79 --
-- Rolex SS Daytona 116520 '04 --
dsio is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 06:58 PM   #16
Flyjet601
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Watch: All of them
Posts: 2,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg G View Post
Milgauss is on the centerline of the dial (as far as my eyes can tell).

It is the Rolex and Oyster Perpetual that are off center to the left.

Shoddy work. If I saw that watch on someone's wrist, not knowing better, I might think it a fake.

I was about to post something in favor of Rolex in this thread, but I think dsio made a point.
Never noticed but you can certainly see it from that angle......

You may have a new collectors rare, off center, Milgauss....lol
__________________
I used to be indecisive, now I'm not sure
Flyjet601 is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 08:01 PM   #17
G.J
"TRF" Member
 
G.J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 2,096
I would love to own a GS at some point.
Had the opportunity to see and feel one in the flesh and man was I blown away.
What a piece of art, great finish and beauty.

Is the build quality of grand seiko greater than rolex?

Don't know, I am not a watchmaker, but please, try one and I promise you will be amazed on several levels.
__________________
In Memory of JJ Irani
G.J is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 08:12 PM   #18
padi56
Moderator & 2019 SKY-DWELLER Patron
 
padi56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Real Name: Peter
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng
Watch: ing you.
Posts: 44,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodelicious View Post
I don't own a gs.

Anyone with both - what's the deal?
Well at the moment I don't own a Seiko Grand but been looking for a vintage one for quite some time.And IMHO the Seiko Grand can match or surpass all of the Swiss mass produced watches even Rolex. But what they cannot match is the brand name nothing more or less, as today with the stereo brand conscious types many today don't wear the watch they just wear the brand..The Seiko Grand are fantastic watches and Grand Seikos are in a completely different league to the standard Seiko's, and should not be spoken about in the same breath. Grand Seikos are hand made and the vintage ones wiped the floor with the major Swiss brands for accuracy before today's watered down COSC was formed in 1973.

Now before the Swiss COSC was started they used to have Observatory testing and competitions to a much higher standard than todays Swiss COSC. And during the entire 23 years of testing, 5093 wristwatches were submitted for certification, and only 3253 were passed, about 64%, today around 94% pass the COSC test first time a big difference now truth be told today with careful regulation most any movement could pass todays test.Back in the 1960-70s just a few manufacturers participated, and only Omega and Patek did so every year. The other brands. were: Rolex, Zenith, Longines, Movado, Vacheron & Constantin, Ulysse Nardin, Cyma and Favre-Leuba, along with numerous independent professional watchmakers.

That was until the Seiko Grand come on the scene and started to wipe the floor with the Swiss mechanical watch industry.Now in those days only 2 brands in the + 23 years of the competitions submitted movements of only serial production for retail sale(Seiko and GP).All others were specially made movements just for the competition test and not then for retail sale.

Now Seiko first entered the competition,with other watches from all over the world,including most of the Swiss high end brands.But then for a much higher standard than todays COSC,the Astronomical Observatory Authorisation Chronometer Standard (+/- 2/3 seconds/day) Out of many watches submitted only two passed this test a Seiko Grand just a production model, and Giraud Peregaux this time a specially build for the test model.And in the late 1960s there were only two companies, who could sell watches, passed astronomical observatory authorisation Chronometer in those days. Seiko and Giraud Peregaux.As the Japanese had dominated the tests in the late 1960s and the two preceding events, in 1972 many of Swiss watch manufacturers demanded the end of the observatory competitions,and it was ended in 1973,now thats when the Swiss COSC was founded but run by the Swiss for the Swiss brands only.

Check out the regulator adjuster on this one! and movement finish. That's real quality and there own movement test, to a much higher spec than the Swiss COSC




__________________

ICom Pro3

All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only.

"The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever."
Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again.

www.mc0yad.club

Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder
padi56 is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 09:36 PM   #19
NAVY
"TRF" Member
 
NAVY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NB, Canada
Watch: 114060
Posts: 215
I've owned both GS and Rolex ...

IMHO, GS equal or better ... leaning more towards better
NAVY is online now  
Old 1 January 2013, 09:52 PM   #20
drainaps
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Shanghai
Watch: Too many to tell
Posts: 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodelicious View Post
I don't own a gs. I have a gv gauss.

Anyone with both - what's the deal?
GS all the way. I don't have one because it's a lot of money for a difficult to flip item, but I'm more and more tempted. My next visit to Tokyo I might give it a go, of course second hand.

This reminds me that COSC certification and Swiss horological competitions were banned to non-Swiss brands, after so many home runs by Seiko and others..... With their plain vanilla off the shelf models. That's more than proof to me of how scared Swiss Brands were of premium Asian competitors.

It is also true that, everywhere in Asia outside Japan, Rolex is unanimously recognized as THE Brand. It seems that unless you add savvy marketing, horological prowess on its own is not enough.....

To me GS is Haute Horology at Rolex prices, while Rolex is a mass-luxury product with a hefty price premium attached to it.

Happy new year.
drainaps is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 10:24 PM   #21
padi56
Moderator & 2019 SKY-DWELLER Patron
 
padi56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Real Name: Peter
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng
Watch: ing you.
Posts: 44,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by financeman View Post
I would have to agree with this. The GS is a nice watch but I don't think the build quality will ever be superior to a Rolex
Will in many ways the Seiko Grand or any of the high end Seiko range can equal or better even Rolex except in brand name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlc123 View Post
I often consider getting a grand seiko, then I realize that I could use the same amount of money to buy a JLC, Rolex, or Omega 8500.
Thats the main problem most people stereo type Seiko the brand as a producer of high street low end cost watches.Its much like many say about Tudor its not a Rolex but Tudor and Seiko Grand make excellent products.
__________________

ICom Pro3

All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only.

"The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever."
Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again.

www.mc0yad.club

Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder
padi56 is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 10:39 PM   #22
Watchzombie
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Green City
Posts: 152
In term of build, it would be GS. But in term of branding and resale, Rolex is the one.
Watchzombie is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 11:29 PM   #23
John in MA
"TRF" Member
 
John in MA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchzombie View Post
In term of build, it would be GS. But in term of branding and resale, Rolex is the one.
I agree 100%. Got to try on a grand seiko in Japan and it was incredible.

I owned a seiko marine master which uses an unfinished grand seiko movement in it and the watch was great. Build quality blew my rolex out of the water , accuracy was crazy good and at the time one of the few brands that had a self quick adjustable bracelet clasp. This was back in 2003 IIRC.
__________________
Formerly John in SC and John in TN

How To: Remove a Tudor Pelagos Endlink in 60 Seconds or Less
John in MA is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 11:29 PM   #24
alanc
"TRF" Member
 
alanc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Real Name: Alan
Location: Connecticut
Watch: 114270 16710B
Posts: 1,061
This is why I love this forum. I was not even aware of GS as a brand until I read this thread. Fascinating stuff, particularly Padi's tale of the early chronometer tests.

Prices for GS's seem reasonable too, considering what you get. The equivalent of a SS Sub Date is $7500 from one Seiko AD; the Rolex (last I checked) was $8000.

Of course, resale value and brand recognition favor the Rolex. I suppose the GS is for the person who wants the best and doesn't care whether the world knows he or she has it, or not. The wearer knows, and that's enough. I admire such folks.
alanc is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 11:58 PM   #25
Jason71
"TRF" Member
 
Jason71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Real Name: Jason
Location: USA
Watch: Rolex/Tudor Divers
Posts: 7,972
Unfortunately for me, the GS is just not overly attractive. I don't really care for the styling of any of their automatic models.

BTW, that's my White Milgauss!!!! Thanks for posting the picture

Off-centered text and all.........I still love it
__________________
Best Regards,
Jason


Just Say "NO" to Polishing
Card-Carrying Member of the Global Association of Retro-Grouch Curmudgeons
LIfe is too short to wear inexpensive watches
PLEXI IS SEXY
Jason71 is offline  
Old 1 January 2013, 11:59 PM   #26
68camaro
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 856
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanc View Post
This is why I love this forum. I was not even aware of GS as a brand until I read this thread. Fascinating stuff, particularly Padi's tale of the early chronometer tests.
I read a lot of posters here were gifted Rolexs or are buying them to someday hand down as heirloom gifts. I think 99,9% of the general population being left or gifted a Rolex will understand and appreciate the gesture and know full well the aurora of Rolex, while those same people given a GS will think its just a watch, a sieko watch you can buy in any department store.

Chuck
68camaro is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 12:01 AM   #27
rolio
"TRF" Member
 
rolio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Real Name: justRay
Location: Back2California
Watch: Birdies
Posts: 1,913
Quote:
Originally Posted by padi56 View Post
Well at the moment I don't own a Seiko Grand but been looking for a vintage one for quite some time.And IMHO the Seiko Grand can match or surpass all of the Swiss mass produced watches even Rolex. But what they cannot match is the brand name nothing more or less, as today with the stereo brand conscious types many today don't wear the watch they just wear the brand..The Seiko Grand are fantastic watches and Grand Seikos are in a completely different league to the standard Seiko's, and should not be spoken about in the same breath. Grand Seikos are hand made and the vintage ones wiped the floor with the major Swiss brands for accuracy before today's watered down COSC was formed in 1973.

Now before the Swiss COSC was started they used to have Observatory testing and competitions to a much higher standard than todays Swiss COSC. And during the entire 23 years of testing, 5093 wristwatches were submitted for certification, and only 3253 were passed, about 64%, today around 94% pass the COSC test first time a big difference now truth be told today with careful regulation most any movement could pass todays test.Back in the 1960-70s just a few manufacturers participated, and only Omega and Patek did so every year. The other brands. were: Rolex, Zenith, Longines, Movado, Vacheron & Constantin, Ulysse Nardin, Cyma and Favre-Leuba, along with numerous independent professional watchmakers.

That was until the Seiko Grand come on the scene and started to wipe the floor with the Swiss mechanical watch industry.Now in those days only 2 brands in the + 23 years of the competitions submitted movements of only serial production for retail sale(Seiko and GP).All others were specially made movements just for the competition test and not then for retail sale.

Now Seiko first entered the competition,with other watches from all over the world,including most of the Swiss high end brands.But then for a much higher standard than todays COSC,the Astronomical Observatory Authorisation Chronometer Standard (+/- 2/3 seconds/day) Out of many watches submitted only two passed this test a Seiko Grand just a production model, and Giraud Peregaux this time a specially build for the test model.And in the late 1960s there were only two companies, who could sell watches, passed astronomical observatory authorisation Chronometer in those days. Seiko and Giraud Peregaux.As the Japanese had dominated the tests in the late 1960s and the two preceding events, in 1972 many of Swiss watch manufacturers demanded the end of the observatory competitions,and it was ended in 1973,now thats when the Swiss COSC was founded but run by the Swiss for the Swiss brands only.

Check out the regulator adjuster on this one! and movement finish. That's real quality and there own movement test, to a much higher spec than the Swiss COSC




What would someone actually pay for a vintage GS, assuming one could be found at a reasonable price? Good response, by the way.
__________________
JJ
"Tranquil? Just wait till I get started!! LOL! LOL!" --JJ

Rolex~By way of an extraordinary life,
and all the simple pleasures it has to offer
~
rolio is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 12:11 AM   #28
padi56
Moderator & 2019 SKY-DWELLER Patron
 
padi56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Real Name: Peter
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng
Watch: ing you.
Posts: 44,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason71 View Post
Unfortunately for me, the GS is just not overly attractive. I don't really care for the styling of any of their automatic models.

BTW, that's my White Milgauss!!!! Thanks for posting the picture

Off-centered text and all.........I still love it
Would agree on some of the Seiko grands style,but same could be said about Patek and most other brands.Although Patek make great movements myself just don't like most of there style in watches. And even if I was very wealthy for that reason I would not buy most Patek watches as myself don't wear just a brand..
__________________

ICom Pro3

All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only.

"The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever."
Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again.

www.mc0yad.club

Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder
padi56 is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 12:15 AM   #29
WhatTheDeuce
2019 SKY-DWELLER Pledge Member
 
WhatTheDeuce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Real Name: Kyung
Location: Anywhere?
Watch: cha want...
Posts: 4,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Furbo View Post
You're right.

Maybe it will be worth more later on. :)
The rare Milgauss "error dial".
__________________
Instagram: @whatthedeuce_
WhatTheDeuce is offline  
Old 2 January 2013, 12:16 AM   #30
11618
"TRF" Member
 
11618's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 405
BAD QA could be a very good investment in the future
__________________
Tony
Time will come, Time will go!
What will happen We don’t seem to know
11618 is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Banners Of The Month

Banners Of The Month
*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2019, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.