US Customs

[texex91]

Originally Posted by T. Ferguson

Well, if they are so inclined they can say "Fine, we'll just hang on to your watch until you come back with the insurance policy." Hope you live near the place you entered the country.




Thanks, Michael. You are a wealth of information.

Actually I could pull that up online for them in about 2 seconds. Trust me, they are looking for liars, if you are that quick to respond, they will wave you through. After all I have nothing hide.

PLUS now I have Global Entry, which avoids all of that crap basically.

[GTC]

Originally Posted by bardm

Sadly it´s just one of several examples that the US is no longer "the greatest democracy in the world", but is more like a banana republic run by the corporations.

Really? STFU. Can we stick to watches, or even watch import policies that impact us as Rolex owners and avoid flag waving or flag burning? Thank you.

In case of moderator: STFU stands for, "Stop Those Foolish Utterances." Peace.

[Girkmonster]

I guess I don't understand the need to travel with more than one watch. I simply don't have the need for more than one when I travel.

[T. Ferguson]

Originally Posted by Kobayashi

...Now if I only knew where I could find a BLNR for 40% off, that would be information worth knowing :).

You might try South America. Just go buy a few of them down there and bring them right on in.

[Kobayashi]

Originally Posted by texex91

PLUS now I have Global Entry, which avoids all of that crap basically.

I was waiting for someone to mention Global Entry. Yup, this circumvents the customs issue as once qualified, one is considered a trusted traveller under the CBP program:

Benefits:
http://www.cbp.gov/global-entry/about/benefits

Trusted Traveler Programs:
http://www.cbp.gov/travel/trusted-traveler-programs

[Chelseafan]

Originally Posted by bp1000

This seems crazy!

So as a Brit visiting NYC I can only bring one of my rolexes, if I bring a few of my rolex watches I run the risk of have all but one confiscated and not returned when I fly back to the uk?

Wow that's crazy

:) one of the great contradictions...from the outside you expect the US to be progressive ,forward and modern in all areas...trust me...anything to do with Law or banking is very behind the times and beurocratic to a point you would not believe in the UK. ( buying a house is utterly bizare). I had not written a check for years before I moved to the US. Its a wonderful place with wonderful people , as for beurocracy however I have never experianced anything like it.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Kobayashi

I was waiting for someone to mention Global Entry. Yup, this circumvents the customs issue as once qualified, one is considered a trusted traveller under the CBP program:

Benefits:
http://www.cbp.gov/global-entry/about/benefits

Trusted Traveler Programs:
http://www.cbp.gov/travel/trusted-traveler-programs

You can still be pulled aside with nexus or other global entry programs. Random checks are still done

[Roger1079]

The only good advice in this thread was posted by Kobayashi and others with the same view.

Regardless of how ridiculous you think it is, it is still the law. If you want to tempt fate and possibly have some very expensive timepieces confiscated LEGALLY by US Customs, so be it. I sure wish I had the kind of funds that would allow me to take risks like that.

I find it impossible to believe that some cannot take a trip with only one Rolex. First World problems I guess.

[Chelseafan]

Originally Posted by Roger1079

The only good advice in this thread was posted by Kobayashi and others with the same view.

Regardless of how ridiculous you think it is, it is still the law. If you want to tempt fate and possibly have some very expensive timepieces confiscated LEGALLY by US Customs, so be it. I sure wish I had the kind of funds that would allow me to take risks like that.

I find it impossible to believe that some cannot take a trip with only one Rolex. First World problems I guess.

...agree with this

[Kobayashi]

Originally Posted by brandrea

You can still be pulled aside with nexus or other global entry programs. Random checks are still done

Agreed.

Originally Posted by T. Ferguson

You might try South America. Just go buy a few of them down there and bring them right on in.

Haha :).

[Roger1079]

Originally Posted by T. Ferguson

Yeah, that's why I think so many have stated they have entered with more than one and never had a problem. I gather that customs enforces it on a case by case basis and doesn't bother anyone they figure is just an average Joe that has 2 or 3 personal watches on them, especially if they are foreigners, the watches are not new, and seem likely to be taking the watches back out and not bringing them in for resale. It just seems if they were strictly enforcing this we would all be much more aware of the practice from all the complaints of travelers having tens of thousands of dollars worth of personal possessions confiscated. It would seem like some corrupt third world border agents are supplementing their income.

My guess is that in practice US Customs exercises reasonableness in this regard.





The way I understand this particular situation, it is not about counterfeiting. It's more directed at the grey market. If it was about counterfeiting then this wouldn't be a problem since we are talking about genuine Rolexes.

All trademark holders have protection against counterfeit goods entering the country, but not under this particular law. You hear about counterfeit Rolexes, Nikes, LV bags and such getting confiscated all the time. But Rolex is about the only notable company that has protection under this specific regulation. It has something to do with the way they set up the corporate structure, with Rolex USA being an independent company having the actual trademarks - or something like that.

But in any event I think it's less about counterfeits and more about protecting the US dealer network from the grey market importing real watches purchased overseas.

I think for this reason many foreign members have reported they visit the US all the time and have not had an issue. Two or three obviously used pieces probably may get a pass whereas if you were entering with say a half dozen BNIB Rolexes with cards, hang tags, and all the trimmings, you may very likely have a problem getting them through customs.

But again, strictly speaking they have the authority to confiscate more than one on your person (and any brought in by other means), so you "takes your chances".

I have never left the country and experienced customs, however this sounds reasonably accurate however you will never see it officially stated this way.

Personally, when I travel anywhere, I choose one watch that will go with whatever I put on and call it a day as I trust my safe at home much more than I trust a hotel safe while travelling, plus not wanting to have multiple expensive timepieces on me or in my luggage.

[bp1000]

I would never have dreamed I would infringe TM law by bringing a couple of rolexes into the US for a holiday.

How is the average traveller supposed to know this? I turn up at us customs and have 1 of my very expensive watches confiscated to never be retuned.

That may be the law but it's massively unfair and slightly crazy. All my watches in my eyes are rolex regardless who owns the TM, you would not expect several TM to exist on one watch company and all my taxes are paid.

[Kadhytia]

Originally Posted by bp1000

I would never have dreamed I would infringe TM law by bringing a couple of rolexes into the US for a holiday.

How is the average traveller supposed to know this? I turn up at us customs and have 1 of my very expensive watches confiscated to never be retuned.

That may be the law but it's massively unfair and slightly crazy. All my watches in my eyes are rolex regardless who owns the TM, you would not expect several TM to exist on one watch company and all my taxes are paid.

I think they should at least put it on the CBP Website.

[Grissom]

I found this to be quite informative, especially for my friends considering a visit from abroad.....

Trademarked Articles:

Trademark owners often register their trademarks with the Customs Service, even when the trademarked merchandise is foreign-made, in order to control the importation of counterfeits. Customs imposes restrictions on the importation of articles whose trademarks have been registered, and these restrictions apply to purchases that accompany nonresident visitors.

Visitors are allowed an exemption, usually one article of each type bearing a protected trademark. One-of-each-type means one pair of shoes, one scarf, one coat, one handbag, one camera, one watch, or one bottle of perfume, for example, regardless of whose trademark the articles bear and regardless of whether the products are genuine, gray market, or counterfeit.

Gray-market merchandise is genuine, legitimately manufactured, noncounterfeit merchandise whose importation is restricted to a certain number or quantity. Items that are new, intended as gifts, or imported in such quantity as to be construed a commercial importation, may likely be gray-market items, so travelers are advised to restrict themselves to one of each type. Items that are clearly personal effects--one's clothing, for example--have no such restrictions.

As a visitor, you may claim this exemption for the same type of article once every 30 days. If the exempted article is sold within the year following importation, it is subject to forfeiture, and you may be assessed a financial penalty based upon its value.

(US Citizens who complete Form 4457 prior to leaving the US should have NO issue returning with however many Rolex watches they left with, plus potentially ONE more)

[Kobayashi]

Hi Grissom - good information. Can you please post a link to this source? Thanks!

[Georg]

Ok, so what this states is that if my wife brings her favorite LV purse and her favorite Coach purse, one of them could be confiscated by the CBP?

Notice, the grey market clause doesn't differentiate between a BNIB and a scratched up old beater (where one can be sold on the grey market and cannibalize a sale of new merchandise, while the other is worth less than half that).

Originally Posted by Grissom

I found this to be quite informative, especially for my friends considering a visit from abroad.....

Trademarked Articles:

Trademark owners often register their trademarks with the Customs Service, even when the trademarked merchandise is foreign-made, in order to control the importation of counterfeits. Customs imposes restrictions on the importation of articles whose trademarks have been registered, and these restrictions apply to purchases that accompany nonresident visitors.

Visitors are allowed an exemption, usually one article of each type bearing a protected trademark. One-of-each-type means one pair of shoes, one scarf, one coat, one handbag, one camera, one watch, or one bottle of perfume, for example, regardless of whose trademark the articles bear and regardless of whether the products are genuine, gray market, or counterfeit.

Gray-market merchandise is genuine, legitimately manufactured, noncounterfeit merchandise whose importation is restricted to a certain number or quantity. Items that are new, intended as gifts, or imported in such quantity as to be construed a commercial importation, may likely be gray-market items, so travelers are advised to restrict themselves to one of each type. Items that are clearly personal effects--one's clothing, for example--have no such restrictions.

As a visitor, you may claim this exemption for the same type of article once every 30 days. If the exempted article is sold within the year following importation, it is subject to forfeiture, and you may be assessed a financial penalty based upon its value.

(US Citizens who complete Form 4457 prior to leaving the US should have NO issue returning with however many Rolex watches they left with, plus potentially ONE more)

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by Georg

Ok, so what this states is that if my wife brings her favorite LV purse and her favorite Coach purse, one of them could be confiscated by the CBP?

Notice, the grey market clause doesn't differentiate between a BNIB and a scratched up old beater (where one can be sold on the grey market and cannibalize a sale of new merchandise, while the other is worth less than half that).

Where does it state that?

[Grissom]

Originally Posted by Kobayashi

Hi Grissom - good information. Can you please post a link to this source? Thanks!

Here is one link: http://books.google.com/books?id=rab...les%22&f=false
Section 148.55 (note the title "bearing American Trademark" does not mean an "American" item, but any item where an "American Trademark" has been applied for and issued).

Originally Posted by Georg

Ok, so what this states is that if my wife brings her favorite LV purse and her favorite Coach purse, one of them could be confiscated by the CBP?

Notice, the grey market clause doesn't differentiate between a BNIB and a scratched up old beater (where one can be sold on the grey market and cannibalize a sale of new merchandise, while the other is worth less than half that).

As it reads, yes.....and yes (evidently it's the trademark, not the "item", that's being protected)

[Gaijin]

Hey I love my country don't get me wrong, but there is no way I am liquidating my hard earned collection just to re-enter the United States someday. Or no way I am having my all real. all hard worked for and saved over Rolex taken by US Customs because I want to go home.

I guess one more reason for me to continue living overseas.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

Hey I love my country don't get me wrong, but there is no way I am liquidating my hard earned collection just to re-enter the United States someday. Or no way I am having my all real. all hard worked for and saved over Rolex taken by US Customs because I want to go home.

I guess one more reason for me to continue living overseas.

As long as you have the receipts of prove of purchase and fully declare and fill in the correct custom form, cannot see any problem.Its possible you could be liable for any tax that might apply to the watches in the good old USA.

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by padi56

As long as you have the receipts of prove of purchase and fully declare and fill in the correct custom form, cannot see any problem.Its possible you could be liable for any tax that might apply to the watches in the good old USA.

Thanks Padi. Terrifying to even think of coming home with 6 Rolex. Including my late Father's and have them taken.

Most were brought from David. Just wire transfer no receipt. A few from Greys here.

My Dad's I gave him and was bought from an AD back home and I do have that receipt.

[padi56]

Then those bought from David were tecnically bought in the the USA but again should all be declared that fact to customs.

[Kobayashi]

Originally Posted by Grissom

Here is one link: http://books.google.com/books?id=rab...les%22&f=false

Section 148.55 (note the title "bearing American Trademark" does not mean an "American" item, but any item where an "American Trademark" has been applied for and issued).

Thanks for the link. This already mentions what we know for U.S. Citizens. My curiosity is peaked to answer Gaijin's issue. I'll give Customs a call.

[Roger1079]

Originally Posted by bp1000

I would never have dreamed I would infringe TM law by bringing a couple of rolexes into the US for a holiday.

How is the average traveller supposed to know this? I turn up at us customs and have 1 of my very expensive watches confiscated to never be retuned.

That may be the law but it's massively unfair and slightly crazy. All my watches in my eyes are rolex regardless who owns the TM, you would not expect several TM to exist on one watch company and all my taxes are paid.

I agree that it is silly and that it should be better defined. Many people likely make it through customs without incident due to the fact that it is not. I am sure as mentioned previously that it is situational. If I were to show up at the border with 5 Rolexes that are well worn and no accompanying boxes, I am sure my experience would be much different than if all 5 were BNIB.

That being said, it is strict rules like Rolex has about trademark, inventory and part control, and requirements for service that keep the value of our watches up because it keeps the brand from becoming diluted. It is both a blessing and a curse for owners.

[Hkexpat183]

Originally Posted by beshannon

Are you a US citizen?

Yes I am

[Hkexpat183]

How many people out there has or know of someone that has had a Rolex confiscated by customs?

[GTC]

Originally Posted by T. Ferguson

I've only been here a couple of years but this subject has come up several times and I don't recall even one member post that they have had their watches confiscated.

So, respectfully, surprise surprise, we have a thread whose' subject so far as we know, exists entirely in the abstraction of a theoretical possibility.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by GTC

So, respectfully, surprise surprise, we have a thread whose' subject so far as we know, exists entirely in the abstraction of a theoretical possibility.

I think mailing is a much bigger risk than carrying in person. I'd be very surprised if anyone carrying a couple of Rolex waches had had them confiscated if legitimately owned.

[Kobayashi]

Originally Posted by GTC

So, respectfully, surprise surprise, we have a thread whose' subject so far as we know, exists entirely in the abstraction of a theoretical possibility.

TRF is a very, very small subset of Rolex owners. And if there were actual examples how would anyone here know?

[GTC]

Originally Posted by Kobayashi

TRF is a very, very small subset of Rolex owners. And if there were actual examples how would anyone here know?

But perhaps TRF members are a large enough Rolex community to be a statistically significant representative sample, i.e., large enough that if this were an actual issue in practice, someone on here would of at least heard of or know of it.

I take your point; and to sharpen my own point, it would generally serve the time and passion invested in this thread if it emerged out of the abstract.