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View Poll Results: What brand do you prefer more?
A Lange & Söhne 25 40.98%
Patek Philippe 36 59.02%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 5 July 2023, 09:11 AM   #211
Mrhenish
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This is the thread that never ends. As someone who is contemplating a Lange 1 reading this has helped me rethink that decision because of the case design points noted
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Old 5 July 2023, 01:32 PM   #212
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Both amazing. But not even a close call in my mind. PP. Family owned. Amazing designs. Exceptional history dating back 100+ years. Fiercely independent. Exceptional craftsmanship. Swiss. Long term value.


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Old 8 July 2023, 08:56 AM   #213
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It depends on the particular watch, but I mostly prefer Patek.

I prefer the stylish Swiss Patek style over the more austere Teutonic Lange style, but there are some Langes I prefer. I don't see anything that Patek offers that competes well with the L1 Moonphase (38.5mm version), similar for the Saxonia Moonphase but to a lesser extent. I'd prefer a Datograph over the Patek 5170 if the Dato wasn't so damn thick, so I guess I prefer the 5170 :)...perhaps the 5172 is the answer!

So there are some Langes I prefer over some Pateks. Lange's general range of movements was better than Patek's until Lange all but retired its microrotor Langematik movement (except in its perpetual calendars). So Lange has descended while Patek still offers the old but still good cal. 240. Lange clearly is not the company it once was, both from a movement perspective and an attitudinal perspective.
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Old 8 July 2023, 09:04 AM   #214
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I mostly prefer Patek's designs. As a brand, Patek also wins as it has significantly more variety of movements and designs.

There are a few Langes I really like, e.g. the Grand Lange 1 137.033 and 137.038, which I find spectacular, the 1815 annual calendar (although it is not automatic and really dislike that) and the Saxonia moon phase. I tried the Odysseus, but I like Nautilus more.

So in general Patek > Lange, but there are some Lange models that are really great. Also, Lange exudes elegance across its product line.
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Old 9 July 2023, 12:22 AM   #215
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I think the design language is just too different to really compare but I tend to prefer pateks offering

I do love the Lange handwerkskunst 1815 tourbillion such a beautiful piece




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Old 9 July 2023, 07:43 AM   #216
Horologista
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Patek owner here.
Lange definitely has a pull on me but have held off on acquiring one for a number of reasons:

1. ALS claims to be centuries old, but in truth is it has only launched in 1990. To me this is no different than a brand like Blancpain or Chapek which gets relaunched under new ownership with no actual watchmaking infrastructure, only a registered trademark.
2. Sine 2000 ALS has been owned by Richemont group. This tells me as soon as ownership pumped some life into the brand they immediately cashed out. Between this and the point above the claims about ALS tradition are largely inflated. Anthony de Haas is a very charismatic leader and knows how to sell the brand, but this gets down to the difference between advertising, marketing, and reputation. ALS is more in the category of other Richemont or Swatch brand conglomerates; the higher end of which include Breguet, Omega, Vacheron, but because in the end they are just corporate assets in a holding company they are not at the level of Patek or even Rolex. Then again even FP Journe has sold out to Chanel, this either means that selling out is no big deal or that Patek is truly in a class by itself. Judge for yourself, but I think you can guess what I think.
3. ALS doesn’t make their own cases. The double assembly marketing might be a great way to gloss over this, but there is something very beautiful about a fully vertically integrated watchmaker, which ALS is not.
4. The 3/4 plate covers most of the movement. Need to get into Zeitwerk, Richard Lange, or chronographs to see the beautiful mechanisms. Even at the price point of a Lange 1 I would expect to see more movement.
5. The “A” in ALS stands for Adolf.
6. I could totally get over it being a German brand if the above five points were not true. But since they are notthen not being Swiss is just another mark against ALS given the context.
7. The proportions of the cases are off. A perpetual calendar deserves to have a sleek curved case, not look like a hockey puck. ALS please switch case manufacturers or make your own.
8. Secondary market is no where near as strong as Patek. I buy to hold, but I am not a fool when it comes to money either. Don’t want to feel like buying a new car that depreciates 50% the second it drives off the lot.

That said I do think the watches are quite beautiful. Definitely amazing innovation especially Zeitwerk and Richard Lange models. 0 seconds reset is brilliant. Brand will definitely grow and I will almost certainly acquire one in the next 5 years as the urge to have one grows stronger and stronger. For now however it is premature to compare to Patek.
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Old 9 July 2023, 09:51 AM   #217
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I've owned ALS and found the watch to be beautiful and a work of art. The company was fantastic with emails and little things they sent over the first year. Felt valued as a customer.

I kept it for a year and just found the face too busy. Loved the hand engraved bridge and the quality of every little bit of it, but functionally it wasn't what I needed.

I traded it after a year for a Patek which I've hardly taken off of my wrist.

I admire both brands quite a bit and it's based on the quality I've seen in their watches not for any other reason.
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Old 9 July 2023, 10:29 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horologista View Post
Patek owner here.
Lange definitely has a pull on me but have held off on acquiring one for a number of reasons:

1. ALS claims to be centuries old, but in truth is it has only launched in 1990. To me this is no different than a brand like Blancpain or Chapek which gets relaunched under new ownership with no actual watchmaking infrastructure, only a registered trademark.
2. Sine 2000 ALS has been owned by Richemont group. This tells me as soon as ownership pumped some life into the brand they immediately cashed out. Between this and the point above the claims about ALS tradition are largely inflated. Anthony de Haas is a very charismatic leader and knows how to sell the brand, but this gets down to the difference between advertising, marketing, and reputation. ALS is more in the category of other Richemont or Swatch brand conglomerates; the higher end of which include Breguet, Omega, Vacheron, but because in the end they are just corporate assets in a holding company they are not at the level of Patek or even Rolex. Then again even FP Journe has sold out to Chanel, this either means that selling out is no big deal or that Patek is truly in a class by itself. Judge for yourself, but I think you can guess what I think.
3. ALS doesn’t make their own cases. The double assembly marketing might be a great way to gloss over this, but there is something very beautiful about a fully vertically integrated watchmaker, which ALS is not.
4. The 3/4 plate covers most of the movement. Need to get into Zeitwerk, Richard Lange, or chronographs to see the beautiful mechanisms. Even at the price point of a Lange 1 I would expect to see more movement.
5. The “A” in ALS stands for Adolf.
6. I could totally get over it being a German brand if the above five points were not true. But since they are notthen not being Swiss is just another mark against ALS given the context.
7. The proportions of the cases are off. A perpetual calendar deserves to have a sleek curved case, not look like a hockey puck. ALS please switch case manufacturers or make your own.
8. Secondary market is no where near as strong as Patek. I buy to hold, but I am not a fool when it comes to money either. Don’t want to feel like buying a new car that depreciates 50% the second it drives off the lot.

That said I do think the watches are quite beautiful. Definitely amazing innovation especially Zeitwerk and Richard Lange models. 0 seconds reset is brilliant. Brand will definitely grow and I will almost certainly acquire one in the next 5 years as the urge to have one grows stronger and stronger. For now however it is premature to compare to Patek.


Right now.

I would add: re-launch of brand/majority of credit goes to: Gunter Blumlein and then to Walter Lange.
Unfortunately it was sold to Richemont Group in 2000. Family owned/privately held: 1845-1948 and 1990-2000.

Info about Mr Blumlein: https://monochrome-watches.com/20-ye...ohne-in-depth/
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Old 9 July 2023, 10:50 AM   #219
Horologista
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uniqueMR View Post

Right now.

I would add: re-launch of brand/majority of credit goes to: Gunter Blumlein and then to Walter Lange.
Unfortunately it was sold to Richemont Group in 2000. Family owned/privately held: 1845-1948 and 1990-2000.

Info about Mr Blumlein: https://monochrome-watches.com/20-ye...ohne-in-depth/
Thanks for the two thumbs up and for the good read.
My post over romanticizes the high water marks of patek.
Models like 6007 variants and the asphalt looking 5226 and its variations are an abomination.
Ultimately Tierry Stern is a nepo baby and would probably do best to keep his ideas to himself and let the wonks at Patek keep the brand going.

Ok at this point I’ve insulted both ALS and Patek. So will sign off.
Both brands are wonderful.
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