The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum > Rolex & Tudor Watch Topics > Vintage Rolex Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12 November 2014, 01:27 AM   #31
TheButcher
"TRF" Member
 
TheButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: vancouver
Watch: 14060 & 16570
Posts: 182
great write up.
TheButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 December 2014, 03:06 AM   #32
xfhxzfh
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: mr
Posts: 4
Hi John. One of the most comprehensive writeups on the gilt gloss Bart sub dials I've ever seen. Thanks.
xfhxzfh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 December 2014, 02:06 PM   #33
roll9
2019 Pledge Member
 
roll9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Real Name: Dan
Location: California
Watch: 1016 & 16700
Posts: 366
Great usable and fun information. Thanks!
roll9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 January 2015, 05:02 PM   #34
badass09
"TRF" Member
 
badass09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Real Name: prabhu
Location: singapore
Watch: ROLEX 116613LBD
Posts: 675
That's awesome knowledge man.. learned something new today...
badass09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 January 2015, 08:28 PM   #35
TurboM3
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2
I'm new to the vintage scene so the s is great info! Thank you
TurboM3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 February 2015, 11:52 PM   #36
Keldw
"TRF" Member
 
Keldw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Real Name: Keld W
Location: Denmark
Posts: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaumont Miller II View Post
There has been some talk on the forum recently about the last run of gilt gloss dials for the Rolex Submariner aka the "Bart Simpson" dial.

While this may be a bit pedestrian for some of the vintage collectors here, I thought it might be helpful to some of the new members to compare the "Bart Simpson" gilt gloss dial to the more classic gilt gloss dial that immediately preceded it. I must confess that I learned something myself.

Photos used with permission from Andrew Shear.

The "Bart Simpson" dial, so named because of the odd shaped coronet resembling the odd shape of Bart Simpson's head, is considered by collectors to be the last run of gilt gloss dials for the 5512 and 5513 before the change to the matte dials. As such, the serial number range for the dial is typically in the 1.4 to 1.5 mil range, with examples also being seen a little earlier and a bit later in the 1.3 mil and 1.6 mil serial number range as well.

Starting from the top of the dial, its easy to spot the coronet for which the dial is named. But, I don't want to stop there because I think it's important for collectors to know the other nuances about the dial to make sure that the dial has not been altered/repaired/restored etc.

So here goes:
....The "L" in Rolex is all the way to the left of center and underneath the coronet
....The "P" in Perpetual is directly under the extended part of the serif on the "L"
in Rolex.
....When considering the depth rating and the text below it, the 2 and the 0 are
directly over the S and the U in Submariner, the 6's are open, and the horizontal
marks of the "f" and "t" are aligned.





While I have seen examples of the more classic coronet seen below in the very late 1.0 mil serial range, it is typically seen in the 1.1 to 1.3 mil serial range prior to the "Bart Simpson". Please allow that there is some overlap during the transition of this dial to the "Bart Simpson" dial. It is also common to see this dial with an underline in the serial range that correspond to 1963.

Again starting from the top of the dial it is evident that this coronet is shaped with, shall I say cleaner lines than the "Bart Simpson"?

Other differences are as follows:
....While the "L" in Rolex is to the left of center and underneath the coronet, the "P" in
Perpetual is farther to the left and underneath the "L" in Rolex.
....The shape of the letter "S" in Submariner is distinctly different on this dial
than the "Bart Simpson" dial.
....The horizontal marks on the "f" and "t" in the depth rating are not aligned as
they are on the "Bart Simpson" dial


Excellent write up. Thank you
__________________
Best,

KW

https://www.instagram.com/rlx_dk/
Keldw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 April 2015, 02:03 AM   #37
jamesmay
"TRF" Member
 
jamesmay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Real Name: James May
Location: Manchester
Watch: Richard Mille 001
Posts: 41
awesome post bro
jamesmay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 April 2015, 08:10 PM   #38
cell1010
"TRF" Member
 
cell1010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Real Name: Manuel
Location: Germany
Posts: 51
Hello just one question. I have seen a few non Bart dials, like the one that is shown in the original post in 1,58M cases. Seems to be correct, isn't it?

Thank you very much for this tutorial!!!
cell1010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 April 2015, 10:25 AM   #39
Beaumont Miller II
"TRF" Member
 
Beaumont Miller II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,609
It's possible, but I would want to talk with the person selling it and consider the provenance.
__________________
Beaumont Miller II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7 July 2015, 05:07 PM   #40
SearChart
TechXpert & 2019 SKY-DWELLER Pledge Member
 
SearChart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Real Name: Bas
Location: Europe
Watch: Rolesium
Posts: 20,078
I'm slowly broadening my knowledge of Rolex, thanks a million John!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GB-man View Post
Rolex uses rare elves to polish the platinum. They have a union deal and make like $90 per hour and get time and half on weekends.
SearChart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 August 2015, 08:00 PM   #41
fabio1965
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Milano
Posts: 120
Very interesting, thx !:pollice in su:
fabio1965 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 August 2015, 05:32 AM   #42
AR5150
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 36
Wow, very cool info. Thank you! As a newbie to vintage Rolex I'm learning the more I know and learn, the more there is to know and learn! So much minute details and info it's a bit overwhelming. As a new Rolex enthusiast with only a couple of, well not vintage, but less modern pieces, and who would like to add a vintage piece sometime very soon, I'd like to know more.

My humble collection thus far. 16800 and E series 16520, with i'm told a MK3 dial.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg $_57-4.jpg (81.3 KB, 508 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0713.jpg (74.3 KB, 507 views)
AR5150 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 September 2015, 06:02 PM   #43
fghuj
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: uk
Posts: 3
Wow John, thanks for that. Extremely interesting.
fghuj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 October 2015, 05:53 PM   #44
10after10
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 50
wow didnt even know about these.
Learn something new everyday.

Thank you sir for the post
10after10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 October 2015, 08:58 AM   #45
droptopman
2019 SKY-DWELLER Pledge Member
 
droptopman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Real Name: Mark
Location: Washington State
Watch: SUBS!
Posts: 9,284
Great post and thank you for providing the information. Very helpful as I have been looking for one for quite some time and this is a great reference to look back to. 1966 is my birth year and the "Bart" is my grail piece. Sooner or later I will acquire one....
droptopman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 October 2015, 05:58 PM   #46
Keldw
"TRF" Member
 
Keldw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Real Name: Keld W
Location: Denmark
Posts: 192
Here my 5512. 1.47 serial with a l.66 case back
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (51.7 KB, 438 views)
__________________
Best,

KW

https://www.instagram.com/rlx_dk/
Keldw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2015, 08:10 AM   #47
Beaumont Miller II
"TRF" Member
 
Beaumont Miller II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,609
That's a beauty
__________________
Beaumont Miller II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2015, 05:47 PM   #48
Keldw
"TRF" Member
 
Keldw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Real Name: Keld W
Location: Denmark
Posts: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaumont Miller II View Post
That's a beauty
Thank you Beaumont

It does have a minor flaw on the dial, but I“ve chosen to live with it.
__________________
Best,

KW

https://www.instagram.com/rlx_dk/
Keldw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2015, 06:22 PM   #49
Tarandy
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: England
Posts: 338
Brilliant thanks
Tarandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 October 2015, 07:19 PM   #50
Keldw
"TRF" Member
 
Keldw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Real Name: Keld W
Location: Denmark
Posts: 192
Flaw or no flaw, I love this watch
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (63.5 KB, 460 views)
__________________
Best,

KW

https://www.instagram.com/rlx_dk/
Keldw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 November 2015, 01:49 PM   #51
GrandAnimus
"TRF" Member
 
GrandAnimus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Montreal
Watch: This
Posts: 88
Very informative, thanks!
GrandAnimus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 December 2015, 08:35 AM   #52
Hairdude1
2019 Pledge Member
 
Hairdude1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Real Name: Alex
Location: Chicago
Watch: AP,PP, Rolex
Posts: 37,141
Good to know Thanks!
__________________
Instagram: @Hairdude
Watches in Collection 5070R, 5522A, 214270 MK1, 228238

16750, 26401, 5711, 116718, 116710LN, 116300, 16710"Coke", 372, 15300, 15703 (All Flipped)
Official Member "Perpetual 30" Las Vegas GTG 2016
Official Member "WIS-CON" Las Vegas International GTG 2017
Official Member 'WIS-CON' Las Vegas Int'l GTG 2018
Hairdude1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 March 2016, 01:06 AM   #53
petemc1953
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: uk
Posts: 23
reat post
petemc1953 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 March 2016, 01:21 AM   #54
project_alpha
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: singapore
Posts: 11
Thanks for the informative write-up. Cheers!
project_alpha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 March 2016, 02:24 AM   #55
A.F.W.
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 44
Here is my 1966 Submariner Gilt Bart Simpson Dial

It looks quite different in various light conditions.
It is 1.35 million series.




[QUOTE=QueueCumber;5319369]It's probably worth noting that the gilt features of the Bart Simpson dials can get a bit wonky/fuzzy depending on the level of crazing. The paint/gloss on these generally have major crazing issues, but the crazing comes with a beautiful brown tropical hue in many cases.

Here is a closeup of mine (bought from Christies private sales) that has a bit of wonkiness on the crown and lettering due to micro-crazing:
A.F.W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13 April 2017, 01:42 AM   #56
bigmigs
"TRF" Member
 
bigmigs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Chicago
Watch: Rolex OP 39 mm.
Posts: 11
Thanks John
bigmigs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 April 2017, 04:42 AM   #57
Beaumont Miller II
"TRF" Member
 
Beaumont Miller II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmigs View Post
Thanks John
Your welcome
__________________
Beaumont Miller II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 March 2018, 10:49 PM   #58
Dries
"TRF" Member
 
Dries's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,380
Here's mine Bart 1.3m
Dries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7 May 2018, 08:12 AM   #59
Filipćo
2019 Pledge Member
 
Filipćo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Real Name: FilipDeMenezes
Location: Portugal
Posts: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaumont Miller II View Post
There has been some talk on the forum recently about the last run of gilt gloss dials for the Rolex Submariner aka the "Bart Simpson" dial.

While this may be a bit pedestrian for some of the vintage collectors here, I thought it might be helpful to some of the new members to compare the "Bart Simpson" gilt gloss dial to the more classic gilt gloss dial that immediately preceded it. I must confess that I learned something myself.

Photos used with permission from Andrew Shear.

The "Bart Simpson" dial, so named because of the odd shaped coronet resembling the odd shape of Bart Simpson's head, is considered by collectors to be the last run of gilt gloss dials for the 5512 and 5513 before the change to the matte dials. As such, the serial number range for the dial is typically in the 1.4 to 1.5 mil range, with examples also being seen a little earlier and a bit later in the 1.3 mil and 1.6 mil serial number range as well.

Starting from the top of the dial, its easy to spot the coronet for which the dial is named. But, I don't want to stop there because I think it's important for collectors to know the other nuances about the dial to make sure that the dial has not been altered/repaired/restored etc.

So here goes:
....The "L" in Rolex is all the way to the left of center and underneath the coronet
....The "P" in Perpetual is directly under the extended part of the serif on the "L"
in Rolex.
....When considering the depth rating and the text below it, the 2 and the 0 are
directly over the S and the U in Submariner, the 6's are open, and the horizontal
marks of the "f" and "t" are aligned.





While I have seen examples of the more classic coronet seen below in the very late 1.0 mil serial range, it is typically seen in the 1.1 to 1.3 mil serial range prior to the "Bart Simpson". Please allow that there is some overlap during the transition of this dial to the "Bart Simpson" dial. It is also common to see this dial with an underline in the serial range that correspond to 1963.

Again starting from the top of the dial it is evident that this coronet is shaped with, shall I say cleaner lines than the "Bart Simpson"?

Other differences are as follows:
....While the "L" in Rolex is to the left of center and underneath the coronet, the "P" in
Perpetual is farther to the left and underneath the "L" in Rolex.
....The shape of the letter "S" in Submariner is distinctly different on this dial
than the "Bart Simpson" dial.
....The horizontal marks on the "f" and "t" in the depth rating are not aligned as
they are on the "Bart Simpson" dial


Unfortunately, pics NLA...
Filipćo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16 August 2018, 09:28 AM   #60
ravenhome777
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: toledo
Posts: 108
hehe
ravenhome777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Banners Of The Month

Banners Of The Month


*Banner Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2019, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.