Prices for Calatrava models will increase?

[Lukasz23212]

5212 and 5227 are about 30k euro and these are only automatic Calatrava models. Will be something like discontinued 5296 price range?

[JorgeCCW]

I don’t know if something different is going on on you area, but in the US there is something that hasn’t change and that is the dress watch is dead so I guess they can list it for whatever they want, the real question is if they can find someone that wants to buy them.


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[Calatrava r]

5212 is a alone in its status. I would not compare it to modern simple automatic PM Calatravas. I suspect the 5212 will be very hard to get and carry a very stiff premium on the used market for quite a while.

[Hendrikus]

Yes, it seems to me that the 5212 is unique - there seems to still be very little appetite at all in the used Calatrava market and prices of pre-owned pieces are going only one way (down). That is no different to, say, the prices of Cartier or JLC dress watches. Whether at some point the tastes of the market will change, and classic dress watches become sought after again, I know not.

What I do know is if you are not vexed by value retention, and just want a beautiful watch, used Calatrava's (or the like) present incredible value for money. You could buy a new Oris skeleton watch..... or for similar money find a Calatrava..... you pays your money and take your choice!

[Russell996]

5212 arrived at AD Saturday. Unboxed today. Not collecting for a month.

It is impossible to capture the dial properly on photos.

[zahain]

Originally Posted by Russell996

5212 arrived at AD Saturday. Unboxed today. Not collecting for a month.

It is impossible to capture the dial properly on photos.

Congrats mate!!!! I love this piece, very jealous. I have something cool im picking up in a week or so that's just came in but id sure love a 5212 and trying out different colour straps to see which is best

[d11n]

Originally Posted by JorgeCCW

the dress watch is dead

"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated"

[GoingPlaces]

Not likely, but I can definitely see prices firming up more.

[JJ WA]

Originally Posted by JorgeCCW

I don’t know if something different is going on on you area, but in the US there is something that hasn’t change and that is the dress watch is dead so I guess they can list it for whatever they want, the real question is if they can find someone that wants to buy them.


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After quickly flipping dozens of dress watches over the years, including some which (very recently) were proclaimed as ‘the right Patek for [him]’, Jorge might be in a good position to say the dress watch market is declining. From that point to saying the dress watch market is ‘dead’, imho is a huge exaggeration. As a collector, if you love a dress watch, you just couldn’t care less about the flipping frenzy and the stainless steel fever out there. The market for dress watches tends to have a different dynamics than the one for sports model. Many dress watch collectors will buy to keep, not to flip. The market for new dress watches will remain reasonably solid for the foreseeable future, regardless of what the watches sell for in the secondary market. By comparison, if you are in art collecting as a hobby, you just buy what you love and the residual value will be someone else’s problem down the road. Honestly, if I could afford something in the league of a brand new 5270P, I wouldn’t give a damn to what the sports watches fans think or its resale value in 50 years after I had died.

[psv]

Originally Posted by JorgeCCW

I don’t know if something different is going on on you area, but in the US there is something that hasn’t change and that is the dress watch is dead so I guess they can list it for whatever they want, the real question is if they can find someone that wants to buy them.


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I don't agree that the dress watch is dead.

[nyc2la]

Originally Posted by Russell996

5212 arrived at AD Saturday. Unboxed today. Not collecting for a month.

It is impossible to capture the dial properly on photos.

Congrats!! Looks amazing!

[GB-man]

The market does not currently display any increased appetite for leather strap watches. The 5212 is riding the Patek wave and specifically the 5522A wave so everyone wants a piece of that profit.

I suspect even the 5212 will be selling below retail in 3-5 years.

It is a great time to be a strap watch collector. Go figure you can land the best watches the brand makes at steep discounts.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by GB-man

The 5212 is riding the Patek wave and specifically the 5522A wave so everyone wants a piece of that profit.

I suspect even the 5212 will be selling below retail in 3-5 years.

This.

The 5212 is an innovative piece in SS but at least in my view it is no beauty at all. The dial is too busy, there are too many hands, and it is not very legible as a result. I can't see this one staying en vogue for more than a few years and I prefer any basic three hand PM Calatrava by a mile.

[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by Russell996

5212 arrived at AD Saturday. Unboxed today. Not collecting for a month.

It is impossible to capture the dial properly on photos.

Congrats Russell!!!!

[Aquaman]

Originally Posted by ts3

This.

The 5212 is an innovative piece in SS but at least in my view it is no beauty at all. The dial is too busy, there are too many hands, and it is not very legible as a result. I can't see this one staying en vogue for more than a few years and I prefer any basic three hand PM Calatrava by a mile.

Agreed

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by GB-man

The market does not currently display any increased appetite for leather strap watches. The 5212 is riding the Patek wave and specifically the 5522A wave so everyone wants a piece of that profit.

I suspect even the 5212 will be selling below retail in 3-5 years.

It is a great time to be a strap watch collector. Go figure you can land the best watches the brand makes at steep discounts.

Originally Posted by ts3

This.

The 5212 is an innovative piece in SS but at least in my view it is no beauty at all. The dial is too busy, there are too many hands, and it is not very legible as a result. I can't see this one staying en vogue for more than a few years and I prefer any basic three hand PM Calatrava by a mile.

Originally Posted by Aquaman

Agreed

Have you guys seen one in the flesh? Photos do not do the dial justice.

Of course, there is absolutely no reason why any watch should sell above retail so can’t disagree with that thought on this piece or indeed any Nautilus or Aquanaut.

[locutus49]

I see the general trend toward more casual dress continuing for the foreseeable future. Will it reverse in 50 years? Who knows?

[Aquaman]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Have you guys seen one in the flesh? Photos do not do the dial justice.

Of course, there is absolutely no reason why any watch should sell above retail so can’t disagree with that thought on this piece or indeed any Nautilus or Aquanaut.

Yes many and had the opportunity to purchase 1 but I refused that along with the 5740 as the dial was too busy for myself

Heads up I do own other watches apart from a aquanaut and a 5711, but I prefer the cleaner dials

Like the classics Calatrava

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Aquaman

Yes many and had the opportunity to purchase 1 but I refused that along with the 5740 as the dial was too busy for myself

Heads up I do own other watches apart from a aquanaut and a 5711, but I prefer the cleaner dials

Like the classics Calatrava

I get it and I think you mentioned it before but that the fact you turned down a 5740... - "no words...damn it hurts my soul":)

Re OP question: I think the 5212 is awesome (and yes I have seen it in person but AD in Asia did not allow me to take pics b/c it was allocated to someone else) and understated but I do agree that it's riding the current hype and will trade below retail in a few years. Don't ask me why it was not sealed if allocated to someone else... I believe we had a different thread that discussed this in detail.

[benlee]

Originally Posted by Lukasz23212

5212 and 5227 are about 30k euro and these are only automatic Calatrava models. Will be something like discontinued 5296 price range?

I wonder how they are going to increase price given the already sluggish demand for Patek dress watches. That will just drive away potential customers, no?

Originally Posted by Russell996

Have you guys seen one in the flesh? Photos do not do the dial justice.

I have seen it in the flesh but still not impressed. But generally speaking, I don't like triple calendars in whatever form.

Congrats on your new acquisition!

[d11n]

Originally Posted by Russell996

5212 arrived at AD Saturday. Unboxed today. Not collecting for a month.

Great watch...enjoy in good health...I hope the month wait does not feel too long.

[Ichiran]

Congrats Russell! One of the first few who receives the 5212!!

[JorgeCCW]

Originally Posted by psv

I don't agree that the dress watch is dead.

Doesn’t matter if you agree or not , the market doesn’t lie. But I also gonna say this , I am gonna be the first one to celebrate when the dress watch revives from the ground. Fingers crossed

Originally Posted by JJ WA

After quickly flipping dozens of dress watches over the years, including some which (very recently) were proclaimed as ‘the right Patek for [him]’, Jorge might be in a good position to say the dress watch market is declining. From that point to saying the dress watch market is ‘dead’, imho is a huge exaggeration. As a collector, if you love a dress watch, you just couldn’t care less about the flipping frenzy and the stainless steel fever out there. The market for dress watches tends to have a different dynamics than the one for sports model. Many dress watch collectors will buy to keep, not to flip. The market for new dress watches will remain reasonably solid for the foreseeable future, regardless of what the watches sell for in the secondary market. By comparison, if you are in art collecting as a hobby, you just buy what you love and the residual value will be someone else’s problem down the road. Honestly, if I could afford something in the league of a brand new 5270P, I wouldn’t give a damn to what the sports watches fans think or its resale value in 50 years after I had died.

Good for you , but my reasoning it’s way simpler than that , I am watch addict and I simply don’t have the money to loss this big amount of money on dress watches. I truly hope it changes because dress watches are my first love in horology

Originally Posted by d11n

"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated"

Hope they are , lol




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[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by GB-man

The market does not currently display any increased appetite for leather strap watches. The 5212 is riding the Patek wave and specifically the 5522A wave so everyone wants a piece of that profit.

I suspect even the 5212 will be selling below retail in 3-5 years.

It is a great time to be a strap watch collector. Go figure you can land the best watches the brand makes at steep discounts.

Totally agree!

Same with @jorge !


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[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by ts3

This.

The 5212 is an innovative piece in SS but at least in my view it is no beauty at all. The dial is too busy, there are too many hands, and it is not very legible as a result. I can't see this one staying en vogue for more than a few years and I prefer any basic three hand PM Calatrava by a mile.

Totally!


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[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by JorgeCCW

Doesn’t matter if you agree or not , the market doesn’t lie. But I also gonna say this , I am gonna be the first one to celebrate when the dress watch revives from the ground. Fingers crossed




Good for you , but my reasoning it’s way simpler than that , I am watch addict and I simply don’t have the money to loss this big amount of money on dress watches. I truly hope it changes because dress watches are my first love in horology




Hope they are , lol




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The day dress watches revive, I’ll be president of the US!


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[Russell996]

It is an interesting discussion, does the 5212 even belong in the dress watch category. It seems a lot of the posts about the death of dress watches are also saying they don’t like the 5212 - perhaps this is why it is also proving popular with other buyers. I don’t own a 2/3 hand dress watch but do love complications.

I am going to wear it as my daily.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by Russell996

It is an interesting discussion, does the 5212 even belong in the dress watch category. It seems a lot of the posts about the death of dress watches are also saying they don’t like the 5212 - perhaps this is why it is also proving popular with other buyers. I don’t own a 2/3 hand dress watch but do love complications.

I am going to wear it as my daily.

Congrats and good question.

In my mind the 5212 isn't really a dress watch just like I don't see the 5522 or 5524 and most 5960s as dress watches. For me these are sporty pieces on sporty straps. Any strap w white contrast stitching isn't exactly dressy in my perception (and certainly less dressy than most bracelets).

[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by Russell996

It is an interesting discussion, does the 5212 even belong in the dress watch category. It seems a lot of the posts about the death of dress watches are also saying they don’t like the 5212 - perhaps this is why it is also proving popular with other buyers.

We don’t know if it is truly popular yet...until it’s out for a year or 2. It could be like the 5524 or not... too early to tell.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

We don’t know if it is truly popular yet...until it’s out for a year or 2. It could be like the 5524 or not... too early to tell.

Popular is not measured in used values. Popular is measured in 'I like that piece' responses.I personally don't understand used prices at more than retail for any piece.