The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum > Rolex & Tudor Watch Topics > Vintage Rolex Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 1 October 2019, 05:03 PM   #1
JasonBetts
2019 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 212
Explorer II Steve McQueen 1655 reading

Help needed from all Steve McQueen aficionados out here.

I'm by far not an expert in vintage Rolexes as I only have a transitional 16750 matte dial bought from a friend.

I was offered this 1655 full set available locally. What's known / claimed:

- Serial 3.4 million
- all original untouched dial, hands, date wheel
- unpolished case, bezel and bracelet

Any inputs on the conditions ie: period correctness, Franken, touched up, etc?

Price offered is really attractive for a full set at below usd30k as I did my homework at chrono24 and found the cheapest full set on offer is at usd40k.

Should I be cautious or should I jump at it?







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JasonBetts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 October 2019, 05:20 PM   #2
JasonBetts
2019 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 212
I managed to get a zoom on the dial


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JasonBetts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 October 2019, 11:46 PM   #3
Dan S
2019 DEEPSEA Pledge Member
 
Dan S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 854
If you want informed advice, it would be a good idea for you to post better photos at high resolution. Try to take photos where the hands aren't blocking important parts of the dial. And photos that really show the condition of the case. Various angles, etc.

Regarding price, I'd do some research beyond C24. For example, EWC recently had a full set (MkII, if I recall correctly) listed for $27.5k, and it took a long time to sell. It's all about condition. Prices on C24 are all over the place, and without knowing the specific seller, the price doesn't mean much to me. Watches can sit unsold on C24 for years.
__________________
@oldwatchdan on IG
Dan S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 October 2019, 12:27 AM   #4
JasonBetts
2019 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 212
I havenít gotten the chance to see the example in person. The photos were provided by the seller but i agree the resolution is bad.

Good point on the value. Iíll take into consideration.

Iím planning to check it out this weekend. Will try to take better photos myself


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
JasonBetts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 October 2019, 12:49 AM   #5
Tavli3
2019 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Real Name: Jim
Location: miami
Watch: GMT II 16760
Posts: 417
Looks like an MK1 dial with MK1 bezel but like others have said better photos are needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tavli3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 October 2019, 12:53 AM   #6
mineral
"TRF" Member
 
mineral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonBetts View Post
I managed to get a zoom on the dial


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Also take a chance to get the photos of the box and paper to Ensure that it is correct full set.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Watching date changes every midnight
mineral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 October 2019, 04:19 AM   #7
swish77
2019 Pledge Member
 
swish77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Real Name: Aaron
Location: NYC
Watch: ing the time!
Posts: 4,011
As stated, much better photos are needed, especially of the dial/hands.

What I will say is that the case does indeed look very nice, and possibly unpolished. Those crown guards look untouched. See how long they are? That's very distinctive to this reference. (See my MK2's crown guards below for comparison; I believe my watch was lightly polished at some point.)

However, that minute hand looks shot and would definitely bug me. Not sure if it's just dirt or corrosion, but something's going on. The tritium also looks a little funky on the 24-hour hand, but hard to tell for sure in the photos.

And what exactly is the "full set?" It can mean different things to different sellers. Is the Rolex guarantee paper punched?

Assuming everything checks out, it could be a fair deal for an MKI full set, but the jury's still out.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1655-Flat 4-TRF.jpg (283.8 KB, 535 views)
swish77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 October 2019, 06:54 AM   #8
CF999
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: UK
Watch: 16600 Sea Dweller
Posts: 124
I’m seeing two different photos here...one straight hand and one with later dot thingie...
Confused ��
CF999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 October 2019, 07:06 AM   #9
Kingface66
2019 Pledge Member
 
Kingface66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Real Name: Andy
Location: NYC
Watch: 1966 5513 Gilt
Posts: 2,041
The photo above your post is Aaron's (Swish77) watch, as stated in his post
Kingface66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 October 2019, 11:00 AM   #10
JasonBetts
2019 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by mineral View Post
Also take a chance to get the photos of the box and paper to Ensure that it is correct full set.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JasonBetts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 October 2019, 11:08 AM   #11
JasonBetts
2019 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by swish77 View Post
As stated, much better photos are needed, especially of the dial/hands.

What I will say is that the case does indeed look very nice, and possibly unpolished. Those crown guards look untouched. See how long they are? That's very distinctive to this reference. (See my MK2's crown guards below for comparison; I believe my watch was lightly polished at some point.)

However, that minute hand looks shot and would definitely bug me. Not sure if it's just dirt or corrosion, but something's going on. The tritium also looks a little funky on the 24-hour hand, but hard to tell for sure in the photos.

And what exactly is the "full set?" It can mean different things to different sellers. Is the Rolex guarantee paper punched?

Assuming everything checks out, it could be a fair deal for an MKI full set, but the jury's still out.


That's a really nice example you have there swish. As questioned, 1655 have variations on the second hand? I noticed yours have this 'lollipop' hand. Which one came first and does it determine some sort of value?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JasonBetts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 October 2019, 11:15 AM   #12
sechsgang
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 1,110
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonBetts View Post
That's a really nice example you have there swish. As questioned, 1655 have variations on the second hand? I noticed yours have this 'lollipop' hand. Which one came first and does it determine some sort of value?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The straight seconds is of the earlier, mark 1 versions.
sechsgang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 October 2019, 03:50 PM   #13
JasonBetts
2019 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by sechsgang View Post
The straight seconds is of the earlier, mark 1 versions.


I see. I've seen other 1655s have light yellow or even red arrow hands. Is this something that rolex changed during different iterations or it's aging/patina thingy?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JasonBetts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 October 2019, 05:30 AM   #14
swish77
2019 Pledge Member
 
swish77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Real Name: Aaron
Location: NYC
Watch: ing the time!
Posts: 4,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonBetts View Post
That's a really nice example you have there swish. As questioned, 1655 have variations on the second hand? I noticed yours have this 'lollipop' hand. Which one came first and does it determine some sort of value?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks! The MKIs, first version with the straight seconds hand, usually command a premium, but condition is a lot more important overall. But if there was an MKI and, say, an MK2 in exactly the same condition, the MKI theoretically would be priced a little higher.

I would humbly, politely and respectfully suggest that you research the reference for at least several weeks (maybe months) before plunging into the deep end with the purchase of a $30,000 full set. There's a ton of information online and you will learn a lot. It could also save you a lot of money and headaches.

Good luck.
swish77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 October 2019, 10:54 AM   #15
JasonBetts
2019 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by swish77 View Post
Thanks! The MKIs, first version with the straight seconds hand, usually command a premium, but condition is a lot more important overall. But if there was an MKI and, say, an MK2 in exactly the same condition, the MKI theoretically would be priced a little higher.

I would humbly, politely and respectfully suggest that you research the reference for at least several weeks (maybe months) before plunging into the deep end with the purchase of a $30,000 full set. There's a ton of information online and you will learn a lot. It could also save you a lot of money and headaches.

Good luck.


Thanks Swish for the advice. I have started reading about this reference and surprisingly I read that there's no hard photography evidence that McQueen the King of Cool actually wore 1655????

Don't worry about the price tag, it's actually in the high 20k, not 30k yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JasonBetts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 October 2019, 11:03 AM   #16
Kingface66
2019 Pledge Member
 
Kingface66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Real Name: Andy
Location: NYC
Watch: 1966 5513 Gilt
Posts: 2,041
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonBetts View Post
I have started reading about this reference and surprisingly I read that there's no hard photography evidence that McQueen the King of Cool actually wore 1655???
Youíll find no evidence. Itís a misnomer.
Kingface66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 October 2019, 06:09 PM   #17
JasonBetts
2019 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 212
Here are some more pictures. Hopefully the resolution is a bit better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JasonBetts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 October 2019, 06:22 PM   #18
JasonBetts
2019 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 212



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JasonBetts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 October 2019, 06:40 PM   #19
JasonBetts
2019 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 212
Is the case what's identified as 'thin case'?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JasonBetts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 October 2019, 08:02 PM   #20
JasonBetts
2019 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 212
After some research, I'm a bit worried about the crown guards. They look huge, flat and out of proportion. What do you guys think?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JasonBetts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 October 2019, 09:02 PM   #21
1William
2019 SKY-DWELLER Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: North Carolina
Watch: Rolex/Others
Posts: 22,273
I think vintage watches are a minefield and I would prefer to not walk into it. So many variations and issues that impact value in a significant way. By not being an expert you are at the mercy of the seller and the internet. I admire these watches from afar but a buying experience I do not want to have.
1William is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 October 2019, 09:57 PM   #22
iliketime
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Real Name: Jack
Location: NYC
Watch: 16570, 16710
Posts: 1,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1William View Post
I think vintage watches are a minefield and I would prefer to not walk into it. So many variations and issues that impact value in a significant way. By not being an expert you are at the mercy of the seller and the internet. I admire these watches from afar but a buying experience I do not want to have.
i agree, even after all the research done, id tread softly and at that id walk away more often than not just because its so risky.
iliketime is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 4 October 2019, 12:14 AM   #23
Dan S
2019 DEEPSEA Pledge Member
 
Dan S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 854
Like Aaron, I am sensing from the OP's questions that he hasn't quite reached the level of knowledge to feel comfortable buying a watch like this from a local seller. In the absence of first-hand expertise, the only way he should be buying the watch from a stranger is if he gets a fantastic price, and even that would carry risk. If the OP is going to pay a "dealer price", he should be buying from a well-established and respected high-end dealer.
__________________
@oldwatchdan on IG
Dan S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 October 2019, 12:35 AM   #24
swish77
2019 Pledge Member
 
swish77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Real Name: Aaron
Location: NYC
Watch: ing the time!
Posts: 4,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonBetts View Post
After some research, I'm a bit worried about the crown guards. They look huge, flat and out of proportion. What do you guys think?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It could very well be an unpolished case with those long crown guards, and also the angle of the photo. However, you're right to be cautious, and I'd look online to see if you can find photos of an unpolished MKI 1655 with similar crown guards.

Also, keep in mind that cases/crown guards from different versions of the same reference, and even watch to watch, can vary a little. These cases were hand-finished at the Rolex factory back in the day. Even unpolished cases can look slightly funky/uneven at times.

Clear photos of the serial and reference numbers between the lugs could help confirm the authenticity of the case.
swish77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 October 2019, 12:35 AM   #25
JasonBetts
2019 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan S View Post
Like Aaron, I am sensing from the OP's questions that he hasn't quite reached the level of knowledge to feel comfortable buying a watch like this from a local seller. In the absence of first-hand expertise, the only way he should be buying the watch from a stranger is if he gets a fantastic price, and even that would carry risk. If the OP is going to pay a "dealer price", he should be buying from a well-established and respected high-end dealer.


Actually this watch is being offered by my regular reputable brick and mortar watch dealer.

However I'm not comfortable with their level of expertise too as vintage rolexes are not regularly traded here. I'm just worried my dealer too get a wrong evaluation of the example. I asked them which mark is the 1655 and they don't have a clue.

From where I come from, Rolexes are still considered status watches hence the best selling models are the latest trendy and blingy rolexes. Very few people here are willing to scoop 20-30k for a 'beaten up' vintage while with similar amount of money they can get the latest Daytona, etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JasonBetts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 October 2019, 12:38 AM   #26
JasonBetts
2019 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by swish77 View Post
It could very well be an unpolished case with those long crown guards, and also the angle of the photo. However, you're right to be cautious, and I'd look online to see if you can find photos of an unpolished MKI 1655 with similar crown guards.

Also, keep in mind that cases/crown guards from different versions of the same reference, and even watch to watch, can vary a little. These cases were hand-finished at the Rolex factory back in the day. Even unpolished cases can look slightly funky/uneven at times.

Clear photos of the serial and reference numbers between the lugs could help confirm the authenticity of the case.


Thanks swish. I'm planning to see the example in person this Saturday. I'll try to get some photos of the fonts in between lugs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JasonBetts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 October 2019, 01:25 AM   #27
Dan S
2019 DEEPSEA Pledge Member
 
Dan S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonBetts View Post
Actually this watch is being offered by my regular reputable brick and mortar watch dealer.

However I'm not comfortable with their level of expertise too as vintage rolexes are not regularly traded here. I'm just worried my dealer too get a wrong evaluation of the example. I asked them which mark is the 1655 and they don't have a clue.

From where I come from, Rolexes are still considered status watches hence the best selling models are the latest trendy and blingy rolexes. Very few people here are willing to scoop 20-30k for a 'beaten up' vintage while with similar amount of money they can get the latest Daytona, etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thank you for clarifying, I misunderstood who was selling the watch. It's good that the seller has an established history, but I agree that vintage Rolex requires special knowledge, and a generic watch/jewelry retailer doesn't typically have that expertise. Perhaps they can give you some information about the history of the watch.

Also, if a high-priced vintage watch will be a hard sell where you live, you might consider making an offer at a significantly lower level. That way you will be protected if you find that the condition is not quite as expected. I would suspect that the seller purchased it at a low price or gave a low trade value for it. In my experience, watch/jewelry stores typically give terrible prices when they buy watches. My local Rolex AD will typically offer less than half of fair market value, and they generally flip it quickly to a broker.
__________________
@oldwatchdan on IG
Dan S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 October 2019, 02:27 AM   #28
JasonBetts
2019 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan S View Post
Thank you for clarifying, I misunderstood who was selling the watch. It's good that the seller has an established history, but I agree that vintage Rolex requires special knowledge, and a generic watch/jewelry retailer doesn't typically have that expertise. Perhaps they can give you some information about the history of the watch.



Also, if a high-priced vintage watch will be a hard sell where you live, you might consider making an offer at a significantly lower level. That way you will be protected if you find that the condition is not quite as expected. I would suspect that the seller purchased it at a low price or gave a low trade value for it. In my experience, watch/jewelry stores typically give terrible prices when they buy watches. My local Rolex AD will typically offer less than half of fair market value, and they generally flip it quickly to a broker.


Spot on Dan. They called me just now that some broker reserved the watch until they see and inspect it tomorrow. As i canít make time tomorrow and if itís sold, i guess itís not supposed to be mine. If itís not sold, i guess the broker doesnít like what theyíre seeing


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
JasonBetts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 October 2019, 03:06 AM   #29
Dan S
2019 DEEPSEA Pledge Member
 
Dan S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonBetts View Post
Spot on Dan. They called me just now that some broker reserved the watch until they see and inspect it tomorrow. As i canít make time tomorrow and if itís sold, i guess itís not supposed to be mine. If itís not sold, i guess the broker doesnít like what theyíre seeing


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
They won't turn much of a profit with the broker, but they free up the money they invested in it, and they know the sale is final, and they won't have any problems from the broker afterwards.
__________________
@oldwatchdan on IG
Dan S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 October 2019, 04:38 PM   #30
JasonBetts
2019 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 212
Update: it's now back available.

I saw the example in person andy impression it has all the matched patina from dial, case and bezel. Bracelets is also matched 78360 and 580.

As swish indicated above, the case does look unpolished with uniformed lug thickness. Lug holes seemed balanced too. Bevels are still consistently cut. They don't look new with many micro scratches.

One thing still bothers me is the shape of the crown guards especially the vertical line from the case up to the crown. They look super thick and far of about 1-2mm width.

Am I getting truly unpolished pristine case that or a case of sophisticated fabrication of high tech laser welding.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JasonBetts is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Banners Of The Month

Banners Of The Month
*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2019, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.