Strange bezel on a snowflake 9411

[Fellini]

Hello guys,

haven't been around for quite awhile. That's apparently what happens when you're happy with what you've got ;)

May I ask the cognoscenti whether you have ever seen a bezel like this, with a fold all the way round and the numbers printed over it?

Couldn't find anything like this anyplace on a 9411/0, but I may have become a bit blind over the last year... help much appreciated here!

Cheers + Thanks!

[exador]

Not genuine

[linesiders]

Would need to see a LOT more to make an intelligent call but the whoile watch is suspect. What little I can see of the hour hand is wrong in that photo

Bezel also wrong

[Frogman4me]

Doesn't look right. Please zoom out and take a photo of the entire watch though, it would be more helpful to see the entire insert.

[jdog111578]

Originally Posted by linesiders

Would need to see a LOT more to make an intelligent call but the whoile watch is suspect. What little I can see of the hour hand is wrong in that photo

Bezel also wrong

Agreed here with LS. What I can see in the pics is giving me no indication of genuine on numerous things.

[77T]

For a straight-on pic that is the strangest cyclops position and magnification I've seen in a while. Agree we need better shots to say more.

[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by 77T

For a straight-on pic that is the strangest cyclops position and magnification I've seen in a while. Agree we need better shots to say more.

Ive seen that before when the plexi is domed but then also has a cyclops. Either that or the cyclops was over polished on one side

[htbilgic]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Ive seen that before when the plexi is domed but then also has a cyclops. Either that or the cyclops was over polished on one side

I also thought that the cyclops was overpolished. It would be interesting to see more pictures of this watch.

[linesiders]

Cyclops on Flake is closer to the edge - that one could be angle photo or any number of things - here is mine for comparison.

Frankly I do not like the hands (hour hand Diamond too small, neck too long) and I do not like CGs (though could be polish) or bezel from what I can see.

[onthedial]

@Fellini
I'm going to counter the truly worrisome and serious concerns mentioned above, with a few potentially positive aspects I see in your watch:
1. The serif date (wheel).
2. The silver metallic paint used on the insert.
3. The Tritium decrement on the dial hour markers
4. That the distortions present in the lone pic you provided are caused "innocently" by camera angle, crystal curvature, suspect lighting, and/or magnification deformation--or a combination therein.
I hope you continue to research the veracity of this timepiece; it's an intriguing oddity. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to see additional pics, serial number, case engravings, provenance info, etc.
________
Instagram: @onthedial

[JohnnyNoDate]

The insert and pearl is obviously aftermarket (pricey fix).

The crystal is likely a sloppy replacement (easy fix).

The large hour snowflake hands (and the rest of the hands by association) do look suspect. I see them commonly on otherwise nice pieces.

Everything else looks right.

Do yourself a flashlight on the dial. Do any parts still hold a charge? If so, do they glow consisntntly together or mismatched?

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by onthedial

@Fellini
I'm going to counter the truly worrisome and serious concerns mentioned above, with a few potentially positive aspects I see in your watch:
1. The serif date (wheel).
2. The silver metallic paint used on the insert.
3. The Tritium decrement on the dial hour markers
4. That the distortions present in the lone pic you provided are caused "innocently" by camera angle, crystal curvature, suspect lighting, and/or magnification deformation--or a combination therein.
I hope you continue to research the veracity of this timepiece; it's an intriguing oddity. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to see additional pics, serial number, case engravings, provenance info, etc.
________
Instagram: @onthedial

I agree on most of this - CGs could be photo - as mentioned, I like the dial, crystal I am OK with. Might be OK with insert with a better photo and sharp look at 40 and 50 - sometimes the alignment is off.

DO NOT LIKE HOUR HAND

[Fellini]

Gentlemen, many thanks for your valuable thoughts. I have asked the seller of this piece, who had listed everything as original and genuine, to clarify his position. In the meantime, I'll keep banging my head against a wall at cosc speed (only thing maybe saving some rest of self-esteem here is that a few very knowledgeable guys, who will not be named, thought this one probably legit, too, when shown seller's photos). Will provide a bigger shot on friday, when back near my desk and this watch. Thank you, again. Cheers from abroad.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Fellini

Gentlemen, many thanks for your valuable thoughts. I have asked the seller of this piece, who had listed everything as original and genuine, to clarify his position. In the meantime, I'll keep banging my head against a wall at cosc speed (only thing maybe saving some rest of self-esteem here is that a few very knowledgeable guys, who will not be named, thought this one probably legit, too, when shown seller's photos). Will provide a bigger shot on friday, when back near my desk and this watch. Thank you, again. Cheers from abroad.

The photos are really what is necessary and can turn this all around. Sometimes watch photography is really difficult and can make something good look bad - this may just be that

[Fellini]

"Intriguing oddity", thanks pal, I'm still chuckling.

Merry christmas (mine, not so much) from the house of the folded bezel.

[alwayshere]

hour hand and seconds hand looks off, I agree.

Looks like crown has been replaced with modern or aftermarket 703.

I have a feeling even the dial is not genuine

[htbilgic]

I agree with alwayshere: the hands are not kosher. I also have a feeling this dial is not genuine: the hour markers do not look symmetrical (I could be wrong though). It also concerns me that the color of the fake hands match the color of the dial.

Originally Posted by alwayshere

hour hand and seconds hand looks off, I agree.

Looks like crown has been replaced with modern or aftermarket 703.

I have a feeling even the dial is not genuine

[J!m]

I believe the dial is genuine, or the best fake on the planet.

I think the (aftermarket) hands and dial were relumed to match each other.

Date disc does not appear to be silver.

Crystal is not a concern.

Insert color is fantastic but I have never seen gen or aftermarket looking like that with folded printing.

I'd need to see a lot more of the case to draw any conclusions there.

If you want a daily wear piece, it's probably fine. I wouldn't pay more than $1000 for it personally, assuming the movement is a genuine Tudor one.

Dial is worth 5-600 on its own if the feet weren't clipped to fit to a 2824... it would be 6-800 if it wasn't relumed.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by J!m

I believe the dial is genuine, or the best fake on the planet.

I think the (aftermarket) hands and dial were relumed to match each other.

Date disc does not appear to be silver.

Crystal is not a concern.

Insert color is fantastic but I have never seen gen or aftermarket looking like that with folded printing.

I'd need to see a lot more of the case to draw any conclusions there.

If you want a daily wear piece, it's probably fine. I wouldn't pay more than $1000 for it personally, assuming the movement is a genuine Tudor one.

Dial is worth 5-600 on its own if the feet weren't clipped to fit to a 2824... it would be 6-800 if it wasn't relumed.

Insert is real - 95% certain - last 5 % needs in my hand
Case / dial look OK - to be sure need to see in person
Wht datewheel is OK depending on serial

Hands as mentioned no good

[J!m]

White datewheel causes me concern. My 1978 9411 is silver. There are not a lot of 9411's after that. The later blue dial subs had white wheels as I recall.

Then again it could be a service part I suppose.

It could be honest Rolex service aftermath; however those hands certainly didn't come from Geneva.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by J!m

White datewheel causes me concern. My 1978 9411 is silver. There are not a lot of 9411's after that. The later blue dial subs had white wheels as I recall.

Then again it could be a service part I suppose.

It could be honest Rolex service aftermath; however those hands certainly didn't come from Geneva.

Yeh - hands are clearly no good.

Plenty of white and silver datewheels in mid 70s, brushed came later - flakes ran until 83

[Fellini]

A few years later, and just to clarify this thing: it was a total fake, the seller (listed among the trustworthy dealers in that section) kindly refunded the money and got his Vietkong piece back. Case closed, thanks for your help, guys! ����

[Andjwhite]

Wow, that is pretty wild. Glad to hear the original seller made it right for you.

[linesiders]

Interesting - would need to have had better photos, it was among the worst photos I've seen for Snowfakes. I suspect parts were real, but again, horrible photos.

[Fellini]

yeah, horrible photos. or maybe a horrible watch made by horrible people in a village known for a horrible fake industry delivering to quite a few well known dealers. caveat emptor.

[offrdmania]

2.5 years op?

[MrChamfers]

The dial looks legit to me.
Folks are selling them for $3k now, what a different world in a few years.

[eatt_river]

Originally Posted by Fellini

yeah, horrible photos. or maybe a horrible watch made by horrible people in a village known for a horrible fake industry delivering to quite a few well known dealers. caveat emptor.

What a story. Thanks for sharing it here.

Out of curiosity. @OP please: Did it come initially from a country in SE-Asia where “vietkong” is national currency. No offense to that word please.

On the sidelines note I really want to assess the risk to buy Rollies and Tudies from sellers related tp the country mentioned aboved.

[TuRo]

Fonts and spacings possibly look slightly off to me, for the kissing t swiss t vers' of dial.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by TuRo

for the kissing t swiss t vers' of dial.

Shhhh ; ) (nobody is supposed to know that and part of why I chuckle when people say there are two dials for these - there are like 7)

I have probably handled or owned 3 times as many snowflakes between that thread and now and the 6 years before it. I still have things I like and don't like about that watch, STILL need better photos or in hand.