Price ranges of the 1675

[The_Walrus]

Why do I come across such a price difference when in comes to 1675's?
Could someone point out why 'similar' watches can range from $5500 up to $11,000? Let's assume all is equal in condition and no box or papers are included.
I don't believe the 1675 had a gilt era to justify the price difference.
Thanks in advanced

[watchcrank]

Quality and specifics such as inserts, dial era, small arrow hand, dated bracelets
and type like a 7206,

And if they are chapter ring gilt or non chapter swiss or non chapter t 25 dials.

Huge difference in price imho.

[waspy1]

Originally Posted by The_Walrus

Why do I come across such a price difference when in comes to 1675's?
Could someone point out why 'similar' watches can range from $5500 up to $11,000? Let's assume all is equal in condition and no box or papers are included.
I don't believe the 1675 had a gilt era to justify the price difference.
Thanks in advanced

Err, the 1675 most certainly had a gilt era. 1960 to 1966

[Kingface66]

There was a gilt era, and that, like gilt Subs, would totally justify a significant price difference.

[swish77]

And then you have sellers who are asking way too much for 1675s, or any vintage Rolex sports models, really. They can ask anything they want, of course, but whether they sell at those prices is another story. So, sometimes those vast price ranges you see on listings are misleading.

[harry in montreal]

I guess you need to price a nice new Gmt. These sell for big bucks. Think about which you would enjoy more and use the new price as a baseline for insanity. People seem to really like the Pepsi models. As do I. Even more than the subs from this era.

[jedly1]

its not just 1675's its right across the market ...and theres a serious case of the blind the leading the blind in many cases.

the advent of Instagram as a major point of entry to the market has IMHO had a profound impact on the way the hobby works....in the old days many collectors were introduced to the hobby when they stumbled across forums , they read a bit , learned a bit, followed the classifieds adds, benchmarked pricing with the friends they made , and yes in the good times prices went up ....

these days many of the new buyers hitting the market don't get this actual education , they see a nice pic on IG , they see a lot of likes , and they get caught up in the idea of wanting the same and they get caught by the real problem ...impatience.....even if they try to do some background research on pricing they cant see any solid guides to what is being sold, they see examples like you describe at the high end and think 'ok, there others at that price it must be right' and they don't have the knowledge to compare like for like in many cases and they don't for sure want to wait , do some learning , take some time etc


the influx of new buyers , coming at the same time as a serious shortage of quality pieces, has led to a real spiralling in prices , but also leaves the market wide open to sellers prepared to oversell to those that don't know better and cash in on the impatience ...the buyers won't find out until they come to sell...and by sell i mean sell for hard cash to someone else, not swap or trade back in.

On RARE pieces i get it .... even if you apply a bit of patience you aren't going to get a 6263Paul Newman cheap ...but a 5513 , a 1675 ?....again you can say yes but a top one percentile 5513/1675 is just as rare ....but these aren't the examples we are talking about .....

in the last few months , some of the prices I've seen paid by people for mediocre pieces have been truely frightening and there a lot of folks in for a shock down the line.....,

[AS1]

Originally Posted by jedly1

its not just 1675's its right across the market ...and theres a serious case of the blind the leading the blind in many cases.

the advent of Instagram as a major point of entry to the market has IMHO had a profound impact on the way the hobby works....in the old days many collectors were introduced to the hobby when they stumbled across forums , they read a bit , learned a bit, followed the classifieds adds, benchmarked pricing with the friends they made , and yes in the good times prices went up ....

these days many of the new buyers hitting the market don't get this actual education , they see a nice pic on IG , they see a lot of likes , and they get caught up in the idea of wanting the same and they get caught by the real problem ...impatience.....even if they try to do some background research on pricing they cant see any solid guides to what is being sold, they see examples like you describe at the high end and think 'ok, there others at that price it must be right' and they don't have the knowledge to compare like for like in many cases and they don't for sure want to wait , do some learning , take some time etc


the influx of new buyers , coming at the same time as a serious shortage of quality pieces, has led to a real spiralling in prices , but also leaves the market wide open to sellers prepared to oversell to those that don't know better and cash in on the impatience ...the buyers won't find out until they come to sell...and by sell i mean sell for hard cash to someone else, not swap or trade back in.

On RARE pieces i get it .... even if you apply a bit of patience you aren't going to get a 6263Paul Newman cheap ...but a 5513 , a 1675 ?....again you can say yes but a top one percentile 5513/1675 is just as rare ....but these aren't the examples we are talking about .....

in the last few months , some of the prices I've seen paid by people for mediocre pieces have been truely frightening and there a lot of folks in for a shock down the line.....,

Very good thoughts from one of the top experts we are lucky enough to have on this forum!

[05carbondrz]

Being a newer Vintage Collector myself,I am trying to focus on all original Watches with fat(unpolished) Cases.Truly good examples are not easy to find and when You do they cost a couple Grand more than a over polished example with service parts.

[alwayshere]

lol

Love how the OP said "no gilt era" - WRONG!

:P

[springer]

Originally Posted by The_Walrus

Why do I come across such a price difference when in comes to 1675's?
Could someone point out why 'similar' watches can range from $5500 up to $11,000? Let's assume all is equal in condition and no box or papers are included.
I don't believe the 1675 had a gilt era to justify the price difference.
Thanks in advanced

In answer to your question, it doesn't matter what you collect - coins, baseball cards, cars, motorcycles, art, jewelry, watches or Barbie dolls - prices for "similar" items can vary based on age, condition, year of manufacture, originality, patina and so forth. This is very true for "similar" Rolex watches as well. And if this isn't enough, prices for the same item, not similar but the same, can vary by thousands...look at a graded 1955 Mickey Mantle Topps card and compare a graded near mint card to a mint card and you'd be shocked at the difference in price, and to a novice, you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two cards. The same is true for collector coins.

The other issue is when someone sees a watch sell, or for sale, at a given price, they often times convince themselves that their similar item is worth the same amount, even though the condition or originality of their similar watch is not the same as the one that sold or is being offered for sale. I call this the "Dreamer Phenomenon," where selling expectations are based on a similar item that is in far superior condition to the item that they want to sell. Many novice sellers have failed to grip this phenomenon which is seen quite often in the collector car market and now the watch market.

I have many conversations weekly with individuals, often times regarding the same questions you have raised on pricing. You wouldn't believe how many buyers contact me weekly to evaluate a GMT or other watch. There are many buyers out there that do not want to make a bad decision or "over-pay" for a watch. Many of these same individuals are questioning the same things that I have seen lately, to include; watches for sale with incorrect dials, service dials, luminova hands, incorrect bezel inserts on sports models, incorrect accessories found with "complete sets," wrong case backs and/or bracelets or watches in mediocre condition. While there is nothing wrong with having a watch that is not 100% correct - since many of the watches I am referring to are 40 to 50-years-old - one would not expect that these watches would be priced the same as a very correct model in superior condition, or exhibiting a coveted patina or rare dial variation. The market for the superior and correct watches is dwindling yearly and I have definitely noticed that the nicer watches are becoming far-and-few between lately.

As far as gilt GMTs go, that is a tough watch to find in excellent condition and the pricing for superior models is substantial.

[springer]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

lol

Love how the OP said "no gilt era" - WRONG!

:P

We were all novices at some point in this hobby.

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by jedly1

in the last few months , some of the prices I've seen paid by people for mediocre pieces have been truely frightening and there a lot of folks in for a shock down the line.....,

This is one of the better posts I've read on here. It's true both in vintage and the pre-ceramics. People think because some guys in 1980 got lucky paying $500 for a milgauss they really loved, that you can pay any price for something you want in 2016 - "how could you lose money, prices just go up!"

There's going to be a rude awakening for the new and highly leveraged collector who views their watch box as a 401k. There's also going to be a reckoning for all the miraculously perfect "unpolished" 40 year old watches.

[Vincent65]

"Miraculously" - yeah, because they don't exist, right!?

[The_Walrus]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

lol

Love how the OP said "no gilt era" - WRONG!

:P

Apologies. I stand corrected

[lee fowler]

Defo a Gilt era.

[buenosdias]

Originally Posted by springer

In answer to your question, it doesn't matter what you collect - coins, baseball cards, cars, motorcycles, art, jewelry, watches or Barbie dolls - prices for "similar" items can vary based on age, condition, year of manufacture, originality, patina and so forth. This is very true for "similar" Rolex watches as well. And if this isn't enough, prices for the same item, not similar but the same, can vary by thousands...look at a graded 1955 Mickey Mantle Topps card and compare a graded near mint card to a mint card and you'd be shocked at the difference in price, and to a novice, you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two cards. The same is true for collector coins.

The other issue is when someone sees a watch sell, or for sale, at a given price, they often times convince themselves that their similar item is worth the same amount, even though the condition or originality of their similar watch is not the same as the one that sold or is being offered for sale. I call this the "Dreamer Phenomenon," where selling expectations are based on a similar item that is in far superior condition to the item that they want to sell. Many novice sellers have failed to grip this phenomenon which is seen quite often in the collector car market and now the watch market.

I have many conversations weekly with individuals, often times regarding the same questions you have raised on pricing. You wouldn't believe how many buyers contact me weekly to evaluate a GMT or other watch. There are many buyers out there that do not want to make a bad decision or "over-pay" for a watch. Many of these same individuals are questioning the same things that I have seen lately, to include; watches for sale with incorrect dials, service dials, luminova hands, incorrect bezel inserts on sports models, incorrect accessories found with "complete sets," wrong case backs and/or bracelets or watches in mediocre condition. While there is nothing wrong with having a watch that is not 100% correct - since many of the watches I am referring to are 40 to 50-years-old - one would not expect that these watches would be priced the same as a very correct model in superior condition, or exhibiting a coveted patina or rare dial variation. The market for the superior and correct watches is dwindling yearly and I have definitely noticed that the nicer watches are becoming far-and-few between lately.

As far as gilt GMTs go, that is a tough watch to find in excellent condition and the pricing for superior models is substantial.

That's exactly how it is.
Very well explained, John

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

"Miraculously" - yeah, because they don't exist, right!?

I'm sure some do. However, every time I'm on recon I see a couple beautiful, fairly affordable, perfect lume, you get the idea... Someone either has a time machine or a really good laser welder on call.

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

I'm sure some do. However, every time I'm on recon I see a couple beautiful, fairly affordable, perfect lume, you get the idea... Someone either has a time machine or a really good laser welder on call.

I know what you mean

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by The_Walrus

Apologies. I stand corrected

I was just pulling your arm!

I see you're in Sydney.

Its not common to see a 1675 in the wild or in stores.

I honestly feel sometimes the aussie market doesn't price things well!

[themaninblack]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

I was just pulling your arm!

I see you're in Sydney.

Its not common to see a 1675 in the wild or in stores.

I honestly feel sometimes the aussie market doesn't price things well!

I've seen some real stinkers on the market here lately and at silly prices. The 1675 was not a popular reference in the Australian market and I have that information from a retired jeweller of many years so limited local vintage stock available.

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by themaninblack

I've seen some real stinkers on the market here lately and at silly prices. The 1675 was not a popular reference in the Australian market and I have that information from a retired jeweller of many years so limited local vintage stock available.

In the late 90s and early 2000s the combination of the internet, the growing availability of information and eBay was creating the early stages of Rolex collecting as we know it today. More people began collecting because it became possible to be reasonably certain what you were buying by comparisons, asking on forums and pictures, glorious pictures!

And prices began to creep up, old 5513s and 1675s began hitting the 1500-2000 level. All vintage Rolex began the upward climb. This was the era of the barn find, prices forced old Rolex off grandpas wrist and into the wilds of eBay. There was a great sucking sound as Rolex began to fly from Asia primarily but Australia as well to cash in on this new phenomenon.

I became convinced that every young man in Asia had been given a 6694 upon graduating primary school, they were everywhere along with dad's old DJ and everything else Rolex ever made.

The Asian watches were generally in good condition, they were treasured by their owners and looked it. Then there were the Australian Rolex, oh dear lord, not all were mistreated but the most worn Rolex I've ever seen were from I suppose, the Outback and had never seen a watchmaker in 30 or 40 years.

These things looked as though they had lived their lives in a sandstorm when not being used variously as hammers and brass knuckles in fights. the original crystal so scratched and pitted telling time would be impossible and probably unnecessary due to never having been serviced in it's life.

Although I will say some Australians did recognize the benefits of a good service and would attempt to chisel the case back off to do god only know what to the movement. Perhaps pour some Fosters in there for a refreshing fizzy alcohol bath to degunk it prior to dipping it in some motor oil before sealing it up for another 30 years.

Those Outback Rolex should have just been put in the Rolex museum.

Ah, the old prices, I paid 1225USD for this in 2001.