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Old 16 October 2018, 01:27 PM   #181
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I’ve gotten all my watches through ADs at retail. It’s worth it to build a relationship.

Point taken, and I would gladly give Rolex a premium to have a watch sooner. I think it’s different to give that premium to an individual/middleman whose purpose is to buy up stock and flip them for profit. Feeding them will only encourage the behavior.

There’s a car salesmen in my area (used to flip used car tires and parts as a hustle) who goes around and puts himself on the waiting list of every Rolex AD in the vicinity for a Daytona, BLNR, Sky-D and BLRO. Funny thing is I recently saw him in person asking my AD for a Daytona (offering gift cards as a bribe), and looks like he just got a BLRO from somewhere - no surprise, it’s now on the FS forum here. Just sayin I wouldn’t feel good giving money to these guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by |404| View Post
To be fair, a lot of you miss the point that with grey dealers, I'm actually getting a better service than from Rolex themselves...

My Sky-D had never been worn, full stickers etc. Full warranty card (albeit not in my name, but who cares?)

Vs The Rolex AD waitlist? To then be treated with contempt and having all the "new" qualities of a watch removed. It really is beggers belief...

Also I don't get the logic behind doing this, because if everyone does it then that just becomes the new norm. So eventually the grey market will accept no stickers / warranty card as the normal, because there are no alternatives... Seems like a pointless endeavour to me.

Anyway, I paid above retail for my Sky-D because I wasn't going to wait.

I pay first class airfares so I don't have to sit with people that I would choose not to in everyday life. Also, priority boarding and security / check in / treated like a human and not cattle...
I'd happily pay above retail to not wait in a queue for many things, for example Theme Parks, there are often VIP tickets.

Technically that's paying above retail price for standard admission, but to me it is worth it.

I said it before on my previous post but... Time is Money.

Maybe I could of got myself on 20+ waitlists for the blue Sky-D and then waited patiently for months/years and being forced to keep having to harass people for updates on where I am on the list...

That to me is a lot of time and effort. I'd rather pay the ~£2k premium (technically £4k over retail, 2k above white/black grey prices). I value my time and the greys cater for that better than any AD at the moment. Is that right? No, of course not. But it is reality.
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Old 16 October 2018, 04:03 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by |404| View Post
To be fair, a lot of you miss the point that with grey dealers, I'm actually getting a better service than from Rolex themselves...

My Sky-D had never been worn, full stickers etc. Full warranty card (albeit not in my name, but who cares?)

Vs The Rolex AD waitlist? To then be treated with contempt and having all the "new" qualities of a watch removed. It really is beggers belief...

Also I don't get the logic behind doing this, because if everyone does it then that just becomes the new norm. So eventually the grey market will accept no stickers / warranty card as the normal, because there are no alternatives... Seems like a pointless endeavour to me.

Anyway, I paid above retail for my Sky-D because I wasn't going to wait.

I pay first class airfares so I don't have to sit with people that I would choose not to in everyday life. Also, priority boarding and security / check in / treated like a human and not cattle...
I'd happily pay above retail to not wait in a queue for many things, for example Theme Parks, there are often VIP tickets.

Technically that's paying above retail price for standard admission, but to me it is worth it.

I said it before on my previous post but... Time is Money.

Maybe I could of got myself on 20+ waitlists for the blue Sky-D and then waited patiently for months/years and being forced to keep having to harass people for updates on where I am on the list...

That to me is a lot of time and effort. I'd rather pay the ~£2k premium (technically £4k over retail, 2k above white/black grey prices). I value my time and the greys cater for that better than any AD at the moment. Is that right? No, of course not. But it is reality.


Agree with a lot of this. I’ve not paid over retail for a watch yet, but it doesn’t mean I wouldn’t.

I probably lose £10k per year on Car depreciation, and there are folk on here that will lose multiples of that! And that’s accepted. Yet, the same people who accept this, can’t bring themselves to pay a few thousand more for a watch which they can continue to enjoy for many years.

And the same person that might find it impossible to accept paying above Retail for a new Daytona, May happily pay quadruple the-then-retail for a 20 year old worn Daytona.

If people are happy to wait, or go without, then great. But I don’t see a big deal with paying over Retail if people want to. In my view, people should set a price that they are happy with, regardless of retail price, and pay it.

And then of course there is the chance that Retail may go up significantly by the time you get to the top of the list! Some people probably ordered a 5711 when they were retailing at £18k and were put on a waiting list. If the 5711 had been available at a grey for £20k at that time, they would have said ‘no way’ to paying above retail, they’d rather wait. Two years on, they haven’t been able to enjoy a 5711 for the last two years, and when they finally get the call, they will be paying £22k!!! Just an example...


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Old 16 October 2018, 07:16 PM   #183
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Not more than it’s suggest retail price. Stainless steel Rolex is selling for more than list price at the moment. But I Wouldn’t pay the premium for one, I currently waiting for a stainless steel Submariner with date (116610LN) since April this year and planning to buy one watch every year from the same AD. Trying to establish relationship with the AD, so may be in a couple years I MIGHT be among a few lucky that bought a stainless steel Daytona at retail.
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Old 16 October 2018, 08:19 PM   #184
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Old 16 October 2018, 09:03 PM   #185
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The hype is outrageous. It’s just another SS sports model. Hopefully it will come right down if rolex puts on more overtime for their staff to crank more out....
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Old 16 October 2018, 11:48 PM   #186
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retail only
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Old 17 October 2018, 03:19 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by Carrera_2 View Post
Not more than it’s suggest retail price. Stainless steel Rolex is selling for more than list price at the moment. But I Wouldn’t pay the premium for one, I currently waiting for a stainless steel Submariner with date (116610LN) since April this year and planning to buy one watch every year from the same AD. Trying to establish relationship with the AD, so may be in a couple years I MIGHT be among a few lucky that bought a stainless steel Daytona at retail.
Why?

Just pay the premium, don't buy lesser watches that you don't really want. But you just want a relationship with an AD. It's a pointless endeavour. We're going to have another financial crisis in the coming years, almost certain with Brexit looming. I work in the city of london @ canary wharf and you should see our risk management daily memos regarding brexit...

Anyway, my point is one day it won't be the same market. When incomes drop, so does demand, the principle is known as the elasticity of demand. The same would occur if the population were to decrease.

One day those same AD's you're trying to establish a relationship with... will be a total 180 turn in tactics, they will be trying to buy you as a customer. (as it should be)

Supply and Demand!
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Old 17 October 2018, 05:42 AM   #188
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I pay first class airfares so I don't have to sit with people that I would choose not to in everyday life. Also, priority boarding and security / check in / treated like a human and not cattle...
Some of us get those benefits with our coach/economy flights through frequent flyer status. Sure, I still have to sit in economy class but I'm at the front of the cabin surrounded by other people in suits, not screaming kids

Sure, it takes a little while to earn the status but you get there

I wonder if that's a valid analogy to the waitlist?
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Old 17 October 2018, 05:53 AM   #189
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The grey dealer I work with has had NINE BLROs in the last couple of weeks and only 2 have sold. They were all originally at $18,200 and now the 7 remaining are down to $17,500.
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Old 17 October 2018, 07:23 AM   #190
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The grey dealer I work with has had NINE BLROs in the last couple of weeks and only 2 have sold. They were all originally at $18,200 and now the 7 remaining are down to $17,500.
Get back to us when they hit the 12 mark
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Old 17 October 2018, 07:27 AM   #191
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Agree with a lot of this. I’ve not paid over retail for a watch yet, but it doesn’t mean I wouldn’t.

I probably lose £10k per year on Car depreciation, and there are folk on here that will lose multiples of that! And that’s accepted. Yet, the same people who accept this, can’t bring themselves to pay a few thousand more for a watch which they can continue to enjoy for many years.

And the same person that might find it impossible to accept paying above Retail for a new Daytona, May happily pay quadruple the-then-retail for a 20 year old worn Daytona.

If people are happy to wait, or go without, then great. But I don’t see a big deal with paying over Retail if people want to. In my view, people should set a price that they are happy with, regardless of retail price, and pay it.

And then of course there is the chance that Retail may go up significantly by the time you get to the top of the list! Some people probably ordered a 5711 when they were retailing at £18k and were put on a waiting list. If the 5711 had been available at a grey for £20k at that time, they would have said ‘no way’ to paying above retail, they’d rather wait. Two years on, they haven’t been able to enjoy a 5711 for the last two years, and when they finally get the call, they will be paying £22k!!! Just an example...


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Good post. I always like to pay UNDER retail for watches. In some cases I won’t buy a watch I like unless it’s pre owned and under 50% off retail bearing in mind most Greys pay 33% of retail or less. Having said that you are a long time dead.... I didn’t want to wait for my Red SD or black dialled Sky D from an AD and paid over retail for both.
Two months ago I blought a Rolex Explorer from an AD who I have to bargain with to get the plastic registration card. He did me a “ favour” I paid full price for the watch and I left with all B&P.
Last week I visited a Rolex AD who I have bought several watches off and asked about getting my name down on the steel ceramic GMT with the jubilee bracelet.
The salesman/boy thought I was having a laugh. I told him I bought my first Rolex from this store almost 40 years ago and had bought several watches since. He said “10 years” and put my name down on a piece of paper which I’m sure he stuck in a bin when I’d left. The point is what are you going to do?
In my case I’ll pay over MSRP to a Grey dealer ( who will be very happy to take my money and give me a deal on future purchases) and I will not seriously insider an AD unless they are in a duty free franchise in an international airport.
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Old 17 October 2018, 07:52 AM   #192
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I would pay just a couple % over MSRP if I had to have it. Basically MSRP plus tax. Anyone who thinks they will get a hard to get watch at MSRP are dreamers. Only way is to get a call from the AD. Gotta pay to play if you really want it immediately.
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Old 17 October 2018, 03:11 PM   #193
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Maybe good price for someone to jump onto this?

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...highlight=BLRO

$16k flat now. 100% you'll get it for $15k and some change. Give it a few more months these will be $14k.

None of these Rolex prices are sustainable - simple watches, made by the millions over all these years. No way. Hyper Bubble.
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Old 17 October 2018, 04:03 PM   #194
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Maybe good price for someone to jump onto this?

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...highlight=BLRO

$16k flat now. 100% you'll get it for $15k and some change. Give it a few more months these will be $14k.

None of these Rolex prices are sustainable - simple watches, made by the millions over all these years. No way. Hyper Bubble.
hmmm..no references.
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Old 17 October 2018, 04:28 PM   #195
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hmmm..no references.
Thats alright - hes willing to do Face to face. Should be fine for someone near there. Might even be worth a cheap Delta flight for cities around there.
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Old 17 October 2018, 04:43 PM   #196
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No Rush No Big deal. MSRP
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Old 17 October 2018, 05:42 PM   #197
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I would not pay retail, nor would I support any sellers who priced at premiums.

There are plenty of other things in life to focus on than just watches.

I sense a huge shift in buyer sentiment where (i) buyers will only buy through ADs who survive via good customer-centric business practices and (ii) such buyers will leave the luxury market leaving greys/ scalpers holding the bag and dealing among each other to try and lure customers back. I see (ii) due to the fatigue in the market and the emergence of more useful technology.
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Old 21 October 2018, 02:02 PM   #198
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Anger? It may be out there but I don't see it here. Maybe I'm out of touch because the ceramic Daytona doesn't do anything for me and I am not a fan of any of the colorful bezels currently offered but I think its very reasonable to hold out for MSRP. Not because it is the true market value but because it is currently the lowest available price and possible given time, luck or relationships. The current difference between AD and grey pricing is equal to a Speedmaster Professional and a few hundred pounds of beef jerky. Who wouldn't wand a free Moonwatch and jerky?
Lol. Well. Said!

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Old 21 October 2018, 07:21 PM   #199
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Daytona’s and GMT blro selling like hot cakes at grey dealers

I have had a chance to tag the Daytona’s ang GMT blro on online sites just to track what is selling

My conclusion is their selling like hot cakes much more so than other rolexes

This has been confirmed by others like eBay who have stated which watch’s are selling the most, so this is not new

My surprise is how quickly they sell on these sites, they sell like hot cakes

I do not see it stopping anytime soon, what are your thoughts
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Old 22 October 2018, 05:42 AM   #200
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Patience is a virtue I can wait for MSRP
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Old 22 October 2018, 06:37 AM   #201
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Patience is a virtue I can wait for MSRP
The MSRP might be much higher in the future. That's the gamble you take.

In economics, a luxury good like this has a steep demand curve. With very little difference in demand even on large price increases. It is almost perfectly price inelastic. Thank heavy marketing.

Due to this, I anticipate a quite large increase to the RRP.

Thus, I bought my recent purchase with a small inflation of price but in reality, time saved combined with what I think is inevitable price raising... I think it's worth paying above.

Not twice the price... but a few 1000. I think is certainly worth it.
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Old 22 October 2018, 07:14 AM   #202
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Like I said

Started at 22k, 20k, 18k, 17k, and now even hard to sell in the $16k range. Asia can see these around $16k (low 16s)

It will hit $15k very soon and continue to fall. SS Rolex is on a massive bubble. These watches are purely not worth the asking price. Especially for MODERN pieces that are mass produced and I think many people are realizing this.

Imagine you paid $20k for one and want to resell now? You'd lose more money on this reference than flipping a precious metal piece.

We are not talking 1950s vintage here.
For some people it’s the love of watches that will make them fork out 20+ and would not care on losing 5/6k. Or they just wanted that hard to get piece because of the hype. Either way paying that much over retail means you have the disposable income and would not be too worried about the loss.

Consider how much people lose a year to drive the top of the range vehicles Porsche/BMW/Audi/Mercedes etc etc etc so the loss against how it makes you feel is relatively low.
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Old 22 October 2018, 07:53 AM   #203
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For some people it’s the love of watches that will make them fork out 20+ and would not care on losing 5/6k. Or they just wanted that hard to get piece because of the hype. Either way paying that much over retail means you have the disposable income and would not be too worried about the loss.

Consider how much people lose a year to drive the top of the range vehicles Porsche/BMW/Audi/Mercedes etc etc etc so the loss against how it makes you feel is relatively low.
The point here is that ALL SS Rolex's are in a bubble that's slowly deflating. Some ppl are in denial especially the ones that paid like $20k but the current asking and sale prices dont lie. Its still like $6k over MSRP now if they are selling for $15k range. Still quite a large profit but much more acceptable than say $22k.
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Old 22 October 2018, 07:53 AM   #204
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They are selling like hot cakes at 17k, just track them

the pepsi C and the daytona C sell in 2 to 3 days
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Old 22 October 2018, 07:53 AM   #205
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Old 22 October 2018, 07:55 AM   #206
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They are selling like hot cakes at 17k, just track them
the pepsi C and the daytona C sell in 2 to 3 days
LOL - trying to sell one soon?
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Old 22 October 2018, 08:01 AM   #207
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You’ll be waiting years
Have you ever thought some people don’t mind waiting. Personally, I’d never pay over MSRP plus tax for any watch.
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Old 22 October 2018, 08:04 AM   #208
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MSRP only
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Old 22 October 2018, 10:45 AM   #209
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If your willing to pay the premiums good for you. Go do so and enjoy your watch.

The grays are laughing all the way to the bank. They have cleaned up bigtime within the last 12 months due to the speculation.

Just like Bitcoin, housing bubbles, share bubbles many suckers in these areas as well. I'm heavily into housing and real estate and because of the fomo mentality and speculation I know guys that cant settle on houses because they bought peak and now are a few hundred grand short.

Dont be a sucker. The market always corrects.

Oh yea? I thought 38k was perhaps a bit much for a 328GTS a few years back.
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Old 22 October 2018, 10:53 AM   #210
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They are selling like hot cakes at 17k, just track them

the pepsi C and the daytona C sell in 2 to 3 days
Seems like the Pepsi has stalled to me

steve
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