Flu shots

[mjclark32]

Originally Posted by Masteryacht

No way! It contains mercury.
I just use high daily dosages of good old ascorbic acid.

Due to a baby coming in about a week we've asked all close family members to get the flu shot. Long story short, my sister in law can't/won't get it due to the mercury/thimerosal as well. Her Dr recommended "Flucelvax Quadrivalent"

Just an FYI in case it may work for you

[GBRepublican]

The reason I stumbled across this forum was because I've been in bed for the past week with 'flu. Aching back and hips, can't decide if I'm too hot or too cold, now a running nose and generally feeling shocking.

Was googling around my interests after I got sick of crappy UK daytime TV.

I had the 'flu at the beginning of the year and swore I'd get the jab this year. So last Friday resolved to phone my docs to sort it the following Monday. Oops, too late!

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by mjclark32

Due to a baby coming in about a week we've asked all close family members to get the flu shot. Long story short, my sister in law can't/won't get it due to the mercury/thimerosal as well. Her Dr recommended "Flucelvax Quadrivalent"

Just an FYI in case it may work for you

Congratulations! Boy or girl?

[mjclark32]

Originally Posted by pickettt

Congratulations! Boy or girl?

Thanks, water just broke so here we go!
Girl!

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by mjclark32

Due to a baby coming in about a week we've asked all close family members to get the flu shot. Long story short, my sister in law can't/won't get it due to the mercury/thimerosal as well. Her Dr recommended "Flucelvax Quadrivalent"

Just an FYI in case it may work for you

None of the types of flu shots used in Sweden contains mercury. Just make sure that you get the pre-filled shot and it will be mercury free, it is only needed and used for multi-shot bottles. The reason is actually environmental, there is basically a complete ban on mercury. You will get the same amount of mercury from a few portions of fish anyway but we should not contaminate the environment even more if it can be avoided. The brands used here are Influvac, Intanza and Vaxigrip in pre-filled syringes.

[The Libertine]

I work for a medical device company, and each year they offer flu shots on-site to make it easy to get one.

[USALV]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

None of the types of flu shots used in Sweden contains mercury. Just make sure that you get the pre-filled shot and it will be mercury free, it is only needed and used for multi-shot bottles. The reason is actually environmental, there is basically a complete ban on mercury. You will get the same amount of mercury from a few portions of fish anyway but we should not contaminate the environment even more if it can be avoided. The brands used here are Influvac, Intanza and Vaxigrip in pre-filled syringes.

I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.

[s14roller]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

I saw many young children and adults suffer from and die of influenza over my 26 year ER career. I never saw anyone suffer a thimerosol-related illness or death. Antivaxxers will grasp at any anecdotal report or misinformation to support their misguided views, but the fact is that flu shots can reduce the influenza death rate by 50-65% in children and adults. That's tens of thousand of people.

Strong. I'd say an ER doc that has seen this first hand for 26 years is a pretty good reference.

I used to never take any vaccine, now I do. All those horrible diseases like smallpox or measles that people used to worry about (well, until that breakout of measles in disneyland bc of the anti-vaccine crowd) we no longer worry about. Yeah, I guess I believe in science.

Now that I have a child who's well-being is of upmost importance to me, I try to research the hell out of topics. While I will admit it can be scary with some of the stuff you can read on the internet, after researching, I decided to vaccinate.

I also generally think anything coming out of Harvard is usually pretty fact based...

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/...-2017090412363

[Dr.Brian]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

ha... i knew there would be another flu shot or wear a mask guy here. Me too

We don’t have that option. Get the shot or get a new job.
So, I get the shot.
If you saw some of the things I see during flu season every year you might reconsider not getting it. Not everyone is lucky enough to just get a fever and muscle aches for a week.

[emersm]

Every year!

[s14roller]

BTW - interesting point, but did you know who in recent history got this anti-vaccine movement kickstarted about 10 years ago? Jenny McCarthy. From there it spread but I'm not sure who actually knows it came from her. Just something to think about. It would be like seeing something on Doctor Oz and taking it for 100% truth...except, it came from a playboy bunny.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by s14roller

BTW - interesting point, but did you know who in recent history got this anti-vaccine movement kickstarted about 10 years ago? Jenny McCarthy. From there it spread but I'm not sure who actually knows it came from her. Just something to think about. It would be like seeing something on Doctor Oz and taking it for 100% truth...except, it came from a playboy bunny.

Well here's the thing, some people are not part of any "movement." Because someone chooses what to and what not to put into his or her body doesn't make him or her an "Anti-vaxxer." Furthermore, as a percentage, I would guess that those labelled "Anti-vaxxer" have done more research than the average person lining up to get injected, albeit both sides will have blind followers. People are lazy and most don't go against the grain on a whim, but the masses swallow whatever they're fed without a second thought.

That being said, I respect anyone who gives any issue ample thought, then makes a rational decision as to what's best for them.

[Chuckred]

Originally Posted by pickettt

Well here's the thing, some people are not part of any "movement." Because someone chooses what to and what not to put into his or her body doesn't make him or her an "Anti-vaxxer." Furthermore, as a percentage, I would guess that those labelled "Anti-vaxxer" have done more research than the average person lining up to get injected, albeit both sides will have blind followers.

First, that decision has far more repercussions than the individual.

Second, I would wager that group gives false equivalency between peer reviewed science and Anecdotal internet hogwash.

[s14roller]

Originally Posted by Chuckred

First, that decision has far more repercussions than the individual.

Second, I would wager that group gives false equivalency between peer reviewed science and Anecdotal internet hogwash.

I'd have to agree on point 2...

For that reason, I love searching on pubmed.

[Laszlo]

I’ve been getting a flu shot every year since I had my son who is 8 now. No way could I ever live with myself if I gave him the flu and he ended up getting critically sick.

[Tmac478]

I'm 59 and have never had a flu shot in my life. I never even take over the counter medicine. I believe that our bodies are well equipped to fight off viruses if we take care of our bodies. I have had the flu, maybe twice in the last 10 years, but it really amounted to a couple of days of discomfort.


Sent from my iPad

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Tmac478

I'm 59 and have never had a flu shot in my life. I never even take over the counter medicine. I believe that our bodies are well equipped to fight off viruses if we take care of our bodies. I have had the flu, maybe twice in the last 10 years, but it really amounted to a couple of days of discomfort.


Sent from my iPad

I agree somewhat. I think as a society we are over medicated, however vaccines of all types have eliminated epidemics that killed so many people.

Influenza epidemics used to be fatal not to mention polio, small pox, measles, and many other things that have been pretty much eliminated because of vaccines.

Over medication is one thing but at the other end of the spectrum is the fact that these outbreaks are so few and far between because of vaccines these days, it hurts compliance as hardly anyone alive today actually remembers when these diseases were actually prevalent in society. No one sees what polio actually does for example so its easier for parents to skip the vaccine.

The other issue is many people call it the "flu" any time they get sick wether or not they actually have influenza. Its become a generic term so people who say ive had the "flu" and it isnt a big deal may not have actually had influenza at all. Im not saying you specifically, i'm saying in general, as its a common thing to say.

[Headshrinker]

If you are a health professional that is in contact with patients, you are required to get a flu shot. Some years they are better at determining the most infectious strains than others, it's a difficult task.

[s14roller]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

I agree somewhat. I think as a society we are over medicated, however vaccines of all types have eliminated epidemics that killed so many people.

Influenza epidemics used to be fatal not to mention polio, small pox, measles, and many other things that have been pretty much eliminated because of vaccines.

Over medication is one thing but at the other end of the spectrum is the fact that these outbreaks are so few and far between because of vaccines these days, it hurts compliance as hardly anyone alive today actually remembers when these diseases were actually prevalent in society. No one sees what polio actually does for example so its easier for parents to skip the vaccine.

The other issue is many people call it the "flu" any time they get sick wether or not they actually have influenza. Its become a generic term so people who say ive had the "flu" and it isnt a big deal may not have actually had influenza at all. Im not saying you specifically, i'm saying in general, as its a common thing to say.

Well said. I do think as a society, we overdo things like antibiotics. Heck, my dog had a slight rash and was given antibiotics for it.

I'll be the first to admit I rarely see doctors, even for just an annual, but I do believe that Doctors and major vaccine/drug companies have an end goal of providing a better quality of life, while of course, being able to support their bottom line and to be able to reinvest in new research.

I just read this article from 2 days ago, which was incredibly sad. Especially in a country with free healthcare...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...sion-1.4406109

Bedridden kid for 10 days with strep...Mom decides to treat with dandelion tea and oil of oregano...kid was dead before she even had a chance to call 911. Unfortunately this was likely the outcome of someone who didn't believe in modern scientifically proven healthcare.

[joeychitwood]

Originally Posted by pickettt

Well here's the thing, some people are not part of any "movement." Because someone chooses what to and what not to put into his or her body doesn't make him or her an "Anti-vaxxer." Furthermore, as a percentage, I would guess that those labelled "Anti-vaxxer" have done more research than the average person lining up to get injected, albeit both sides will have blind followers. People are lazy and most don't go against the grain on a whim, but the masses swallow whatever they're fed without a second thought.

That being said, I respect anyone who gives any issue ample thought, then makes a rational decision as to what's best for them.

I am always amazed that a layperson with an internet connection thinks he/she can "research" a topic like vaccines and come to a contrary conclusion that the best public health and medical minds in the world somehow miss.

I've seen kids die of whooping cough, suffer death or neurological damage due to chicken pox and die from garden variety, preventable flu. I could care less what an adult decides for him or herself regarding vaccines except that it impacts the public health of the masses. Likewise, when adults choose to ignore history and withhold vaccine from their children, I object strongly.

If the polio vaccine was discovered in 2017, polio would remain a threat forever due to the decisions of anti-vaxxers who would refuse to immunize themselves and their children.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

If the polio vaccine was discovered in 2017, polio would remain a threat forever due to the decisions of anti-vaxxers who would refuse to immunize themselves and their children.

Not so sure about this one, Doc.

The Polio vaccine is what, like 99% effective right? Obviously we can't say nearly the same for the Flu vaccine. I think that's a big part of the issue.

I'm not disputing your overall point, and you're certainly in a better position than I am to make intelligent commentary. I'm also not an "anti-vaxxer", at least not as I understand this term to apply to all vaccinations.

I just think a more effective Flu vaccine would result in greater compliance. I know I'd be more likely to consider it. How about the rest of you?

[Tony64]

Here's link to the CDC's data on the effectiveness of the Flu vaccine. Not some anti-vaxxer's hyperbolic rhetoric, just the good old U.S. government's own data collected from 2005-2017.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/professional...ss-studies.htm

As you can see the effectiveness ranges from 10% to 60%.

As recently as 2015 the vaccine was only 19% effective, and for each of the last two years it has been less than 50% effective.

I'm just a "layperson with an Internet connection", and I don't pretend to be otherwise, but I hope you can see that part of the problem with the flu vaccine is it simply doesn't work ... at least a significant percentage of the time.

Polio, Measels, Diptheria, Tentanus - now that's a different story, and a whole different level of effectiveness in disease prevention.

[s14roller]

Originally Posted by Tony64

Here's link to the CDC's data on the effectiveness of the Flu vaccine. Not some anti-vaxxer's hyperbolic rhetoric, just the good old U.S. government's own data collected from 2005-2017.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/professional...ss-studies.htm

As you can see the effectiveness ranges from 10% to 60%.

As recently as 2015 the vaccine was only 19% effective, and for each of the last two years it has been less than 50% effective.

I'm just a "layperson with an Internet connection", and I don't pretend to be otherwise, but I hope you can see that part of the problem with the flu vaccine is it simply doesn't work ... at least a significant percentage of the time.

Polio, Measels, Diptheria, Tentanus - now that's a different story, and a whole different level of effectiveness in disease prevention.

While it's a fair point about the effectiveness, I guess the reason the CDC and most doctors still recommend the flu shot is because 10-60% effective is still taking a shot at it, vs. not doing anything at all. What the docs are also suggesting, is there is very limited downside to take the flu shot. In my mind, it would be like a police officer wearing a kevlar vest...the FBI showed that between 2005 and 2014, 67% of LEOs killed in the line of duty wore body armor. Does that mean they say screw it, it's only 33% effective, I might as well be comfortable and not lug around a heavy vest, and take the chance it may slow me down? Personally, I'd take the 33% effectiveness rate.

I do agree with Joey that when most of the doctors, health agencies, universities, etc. say it's in the best interest to take something, I generally follow this (like the Harvard Medical article I posted about the flu shot). These are smart people who are experts in their fields, who know the CDC stats, and still recommend taking the shot.

I suppose the question is, given a 10-60% effectiveness is better than 0%, the flu shot is generally free with basic health insurance, what is the concern?

[joeychitwood]

Originally Posted by Tony64

I'm just a "layperson with an Internet connection", and I don't pretend to be otherwise, but I hope you can see that part of the problem with the flu vaccine is it simply doesn't work ... at least a significant percentage of the time.

That's a crock. Hundreds of thousands of people are alive today because of the flue vaccine. The vaccine makers have to guess which strains will be prevalent in the next year to produce a vaccine. Sometimes they are correct, sometimes not. The vaccine works, but predicting which strains will prevail year after year is difficult. So you are saying that preventing only a few hundred deaths in a year isn't worth the effort?

[cdnwatchguy]

Every year. I truly don't understand how anyone with any intelligence would not.

[BBL]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

.................
If the polio vaccine was discovered in 2017, polio would remain a threat forever due to the decisions of anti-vaxxers who would refuse to immunize themselves and their children.

Hey Doc... Agree completely! Glad you outlined this in plain words!
DM

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

That's a crock. Hundreds of thousands of people are alive today because of the flue vaccine. The vaccine makers have to guess which strains will be prevalent in the next year to produce a vaccine. Sometimes they are correct, sometimes not. The vaccine works, but predicting which strains will prevail year after year is difficult. So you are saying that preventing only a few hundred deaths in a year isn't worth the effort?

Easy doc, that's not what I'm saying.

If it's the wrong vaccine (the vaccine makers "guess wrong") then it won't work. In 2015 the vaccine was only 19% effective. In 2005 only 10% effective.

That's not "crock", that's CDC data.

And for the statisticians here that say 10% is better than 0%, do you think that without the vaccine you will get the flu 100%?

Don't get mad at me. I'm just looking at the data, and if it's wrong then please help me to better understand.

My comment to you in the previous above post was specifically in response to your suggestion that many would reject the polio vaccine if it was discovered in 2017 and Polio would be rampant. I'm merely offering an explanation on why that's not likely. Polio vaccine is low risk and 99% effective.

If the flu vaccine were more effective (or guesses more accurate) then I suspect enthusiasm for the vaccine would be greater.

Don't blame the messenger.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by cdnwatchguy

Every year. I truly don't understand how anyone with any intelligence would not.

Because it doesn't always work. In my experience, it is 100% ineffective.

I've had about every vaccine available, for about every region in the world, and a few for biological warfare agents. I'm all for vaccinating people with vaccines that are known effective, especially children. But these roll the dice and hope it works vaccines, I'll just pass.

[BBL]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

I am always amazed that a layperson with an internet connection thinks he/she can "research" a topic like vaccines and come to a contrary conclusion that the best public health and medical minds in the world somehow miss.

I've seen kids die of whooping cough, suffer death or neurological damage due to chicken pox and die from garden variety, preventable flu. I could care less what an adult decides for him or herself regarding vaccines except that it impacts the public health of the masses. Likewise, when adults choose to ignore history and withhold vaccine from their children, I object strongly.

If the polio vaccine was discovered in 2017, polio would remain a threat forever due to the decisions of anti-vaxxers who would refuse to immunize themselves and their children.

Originally Posted by joeychitwood View Post
................. If the polio vaccine was discovered in 2017, polio would remain a threat forever due to the decisions of anti-vaxxers who would refuse to immunize themselves and their children.

Originally Posted by BBL

Hey Doc... Agree completely! Glad you outlined this in plain words!
DM

Doc - sorry you signed out. I understand. You tried.
DM

[s14roller]

So if people are aware that the flu vaccine isn't always as effective, why do doctors and the CDC (who's mission statement is to save lives and protect people) still recommend it? Meanwhile, there are articles that talk to the effectiveness, and still say it's better to take it...again, referring to the good people at Harvard...

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/...t-201411157530

So far in this thread we have had an experienced ER doc share his experiences about the flu vaccine, where are the rest of us getting large data sets?