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Old 18 January 2020, 05:33 AM   #211
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Do we actually know at this point whether it is a cosc chronometer or not?
So far, it’s not, it’s nothing except a 321.....oooohhhh ahhhhhh. Apparently that’s enough for many. But it’s still early, hopefully Omega starts to release more details as it comes closer to sale.
I actually am going through a roller coaster with this one, from nah it sucks, price to high, to it looks amazing, clean aesthetics and perfect size, weak water proofing, but “amazing” movement.....but is it amazing, just because.
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Old 18 January 2020, 05:40 AM   #212
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So far, it’s not, it’s nothing except a 321.....oooohhhh ahhhhhh. Apparently that’s enough for many. But it’s still early, hopefully Omega starts to release more details as it comes closer to sale.

I actually am going through a roller coaster with this one, from nah it sucks, price to high, to it looks amazing, clean aesthetics and perfect size, weak water proofing, but “amazing” movement.....but is it amazing, just because.


Well, I’m good with waiting to get all the information before bringing out the pitchforks lol

This watch does seem to have sent you into a tizzy.


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Old 18 January 2020, 07:58 AM   #213
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Well, I’m good with waiting to get all the information before bringing out the pitchforks lol

This watch does seem to have sent you into a tizzy.


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If anything it's all positive. I like this watch, it's beautiful when I really think about it.
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Old 18 January 2020, 08:15 AM   #214
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The magic is accuracy. Simply put. Not to rehash a versus Daytona argument but it’s the only watch I am considering buying in the symmetrical no date dial category. The Daytona has a stated warrantied accuracy and it’s waterproofing makes it a nice all around watch should I take it on vacation.

I was content to dismiss this watch until ironically I saw your side by side which in a way makes the Daytona look a bit cartoony or more sportish. Aesthetics are very important to me but then so is accuracy. In higher end brands this movement comes with their seal for finishing and accuracy. So just as a valjoux chrono movement can be tested and rated then thrown into a number of brands with a cosc cert, it can also be thrown into a Marathon chrono with no rating and buying an accurate watch can be luck, which has happened to me before with an ETA movement. So just because Patek uses this doesn’t mean it’s accurate.

I’m not asking for a miracle and I actually am liking this watch more and more. I’m becoming thirsty for information and as such I’m just playing the devil’s advocate as it relates to “all” the details. We’ve heard about all the heritage stuff, nice, cool.....but while the 3861 is blahblahblah, you’re gonna tell me that Omega as much as it pushes the accuracy standard in all its movements, couldn’t see fit to give this any rating, a space certified movement?

So in the end, just asking for info and whether this is important to anyone else, or 321/dot over 90 is all you need to hear. I could google it but maybe you guys know, was the 321 known to be reasonably accurate.
Regarding accuracy as it relates to the Daytona.
The omega has a more detailed tachy scale.
The Daytona only has 4 marked indicators for every 5 minutes
The Daytona minute counter is comparatively more difficult to read.
What would the impact of a few seconds per day either way be in measuring the speed?

Simply, imho, the accuracy of the dial hands down trumps the accuracy of the movement?
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Old 18 January 2020, 08:25 AM   #215
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Regarding accuracy as it relates to the Daytona.
The omega has a more detailed tachy scale.
The Daytona only has 4 marked indicators for every 5 minutes
The Daytona minute counter is comparatively more difficult to read.
What would the impact of a few seconds per day either way be in measuring the speed?

Simply, imho, the accuracy of the dial hands down trumps the accuracy of the movement?
I think you make a very good point.

The accuracy of the Chronograph (the model's primary feature?) is dependent upon both the accuracy of the 321 and the legibility of the measure performed.
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Old 18 January 2020, 09:49 AM   #216
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The old 321 is as accurate as the current 1861 movement. Also, it's highly unlikely that the new 321 movement is going to get certified. Omega is going to do the same tests that were done in the 60's on the 3861 and have NASA give them the certification.
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Old 18 January 2020, 10:36 AM   #217
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...But is this movement accurate, will it tell time reliably, does anyone care or is this just such a “cool” watch that all that matters is that Omega made it.

I don’t know anything about the 321 but I do know that brands like Omega have been beating to death the drums of accuracy and METAS and regardless of 1:1 reproduction, I find it odd that in 2020 they don’t mention accuracy. Just because it’s a original 321 remake doesn’t mean they could test it. COSC existed in the 60’s and this movement passed NASA’s testing requirements so it isn’t all hype, just kind of irked that it doesn’t have timing credentials...
I understand your concerns - it's a lot of money. A lot.

It's an old, venerable, workhorse of a chrongraph movement that brings out a romantic, nostalgic feeling in the Speedmaster fan-base. I'm sure it can be adjusted to COSC specs, just not sure how long it will stay in the range and neither is Omega so they won't certify it in that sense. NASA certification for sure requires accuracy, but not necessarily COSC levels.

Here's something I only recently learned, thanks to a fellow Speedmaster fan...
The seconds markers are further dived into fifths. This matched the frequency of the 321 (5Hz) but when Omega swapped the 321 with the 861 which has a frequency of 6Hz, the seconds hand will never stop at a sub-secs marker... . The exception are special dials like the one on the 45th Snoopy which divides a second with three markers.

So... in that sense, the 321 "lines up" a lot better than the 1861...


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The old 321 is as accurate as the current 1861 movement. Also, it's highly unlikely that the new 321 movement is going to get certified. Omega is going to do the same tests that were done in the 60's on the 3861 and have NASA give them the certification.
Agree

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Old 18 January 2020, 11:37 AM   #218
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... choice of SuperLuminova color; either you like the "aged patina" look or you don't. I don't ... but I'll live The suggestion that (new) Tritium paint /lume was never really white is plausible. However, based on my own recollection and the photos being circulated, if anything, the tritium paint had a green tinge to it. That green shade was most likely due to the fact that it was constantly emitting (green) light - regardless if seen in a lit room or in the darkness. A product photo-shoot usually takes place in a studio and despite the strong lighting, it's not sunlight and so there's a possibility that the tritium's (green) "illumination" will be (slightly) visible...
Ok, so this is what the Moonwatch-Only lads have to say ...



So, that's that, then...
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Old 18 January 2020, 02:12 PM   #219
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Nerds.
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Old 18 January 2020, 09:16 PM   #220
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I understand your concerns - it's a lot of money. A lot.

It's an old, venerable, workhorse of a chrongraph movement that brings out a romantic, nostalgic feeling in the Speedmaster fan-base. I'm sure it can be adjusted to COSC specs, just not sure how long it will stay in the range and neither is Omega so they won't certify it in that sense. NASA certification for sure requires accuracy, but not necessarily COSC levels.

Here's something I only recently learned, thanks to a fellow Speedmaster fan...
The seconds markers are further dived into fifths. This matched the frequency of the 321 (5Hz) but when Omega swapped the 321 with the 861 which has a frequency of 6Hz, the seconds hand will never stop at a sub-secs marker... . The exception are special dials like the one on the 45th Snoopy which divides a second with three markers.

So... in that sense, the 321 "lines up" a lot better than the 1861...


Agree

Awesome post, thanks. Apparently you and I understand what is meant by accuracy and rating it.

Heritage and all that mumbo jumbo is not as important to me as a watch that does it's primary function(after looking good of course) well, which is running reliably to measure/tell time accurately and consistently with a certain standard, whether it's NASA, COSC or METAS.
At this point I'll just chillax and wait for more details and information to be released. I think it's a very handsome watch and have always wanted a moon watch. I think this is the one.
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Old 18 January 2020, 10:46 PM   #221
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Nerds.
And proud of it
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Old 18 January 2020, 11:40 PM   #222
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...Heritage and all that mumbo jumbo is not as important to me as a watch that does it's primary function(after looking good of course) well, which is running reliably to measure/tell time accurately and consistently with a certain standard, whether it's NASA, COSC or METAS...
It sounds to me like you will be thrilled once Omega switches the standard Speedmaster over to the 3861
My reasoning is that anyone who isn't connected to the 321 won't care much about applied Logo / DON / DD7 / fonts / stepped dial / tear-drop counterweight /7912/6-like bracelet / etc.

Well okay ...everyone loves these new bracelets and the applied logo is something we'd all love to have on a standard Speedmaster... but the bracelet and/or applied-logo alone cannot be worth 90% additional cost over a future 3861 sapphire sandwich (curr 1861 ver goes for €5.5K, 3861 s/b ~7K by my estimation)...

The "mambo jumbo" types who prefer the straight-lugs, no crown-guards Speedmasters are usually GTG with the FOIS, CK2998 or similar. If however, you're not into alpha-style hands then this may be the only reference with both straight lugs and baton hands for a long time to come...


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Nerds.

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And proud of it
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Old 18 January 2020, 11:42 PM   #223
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Regarding accuracy as it relates to the Daytona.
The omega has a more detailed tachy scale.
The Daytona only has 4 marked indicators for every 5 minutes
The Daytona minute counter is comparatively more difficult to read.
What would the impact of a few seconds per day either way be in measuring the speed?

Simply, imho, the accuracy of the dial hands down trumps the accuracy of the movement?
And if it’s easier to read isn’t that better?
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Old 19 January 2020, 01:51 AM   #224
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And proud of it

Hehehe.


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Old 19 January 2020, 02:46 AM   #225
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And if it’s easier to read isn’t that better?
Absolutely. If you can’t read the chronograph, what good is it? And more to that point, the 42mm sapphire sandwich is a step above the Ed White in my opinion.

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Old 19 January 2020, 03:10 AM   #226
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And if it’s easier to read isn’t that better?
After 3 Daytona’s all I can say is Hooray for Legibility

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Absolutely. If you can’t read the chronograph, what good is it? And more to that point, the 42mm sapphire sandwich is a step above the Ed White in my opinion.
[/url]

“A step above” because of the larger size?

I was wondering, is there an actual 2mm difference in the dial size between the pro and the white? My thought is all the difference is found in the larger case?


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Old 19 January 2020, 04:44 AM   #227
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After 3 Daytona’s all I can say is Hooray for Legibility

“A step above” because of the larger size?

I was wondering, is there an actual 2mm difference in the dial size between the pro and the white? My thought is all the difference is found in the larger case?

Did a little research and you appear to be correct sir. I had come to think the dial was larger....
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Old 21 January 2020, 10:32 AM   #228
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...is there an actual 2mm difference in the dial size between the pro and the white? ...
The SMP case* is actually only 1mm larger in dia. however it's not immediately apparent as the (black) tach bezels have the same diameter (39.7mm) as do the dials:


c/o Moonwatch Only, 2nd Ed.

*The reason the SMP measures 2mm larger is due to the crown guards. Furthermore the all-stainless steel bezels are smaller, measuring 38.6mm.
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Old 21 January 2020, 01:07 PM   #229
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The SMP case* is actually only 1mm larger in dia. however it's not immediately apparent as the (black) tach bezels have the same diameter (39.7mm) as do the dials:


c/o Moonwatch Only, 2nd Ed.

*The reason the SMP measures 2mm larger is due to the crown guards. Furthermore the all-stainless steel bezels are smaller, measuring 38.6mm.
Good info
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Old 23 January 2020, 01:01 PM   #230
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The SMP case* is actually only 1mm larger in dia. ...
*The reason the SMP measures 2mm larger is due to the crown guards. Furthermore the all-stainless steel bezels are smaller, measuring 38.6mm.
Sorry guys, my bad
The official dia. of the SM is 38mm and the SMP (incl. CGs) is 42mm. That's 4mm...!
But again, same bezel dia. (~40mm), same L2L (48mm), same dial dia.... so I'm not sure when they're strapped on the wrist if the difference is noticeable...
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Old 22 April 2021, 11:05 AM   #231
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Looks like it's been a while since this thread's been active...

...and in the interim the 3861s are "old news"...
I'm sure there's (at least) one thread about them and I'm sure there's at least one other person (besides myself) that was pretty dismayed that once again we're forced to choose between Hesalite and display caseback. If that wasn't bad enough... if you're into applied logos and Hesalite, you're SOL... If you're into movements and NOT into milk rings... well you're once again SOL.



But hang on... this ain't the 3861 thread ...it's the Ed Whi... err, make that now the "Speedmaster Moonwatch Calibre 321" thread...


So let's "talk" about that instead... as mine just landed this past SpeedyTuesday...










~~~~


p.s. We (incl. yours truly) all complained that the 321EW would be shipped in the "production" Speedmaster box but when I found out it can be purchased separately for like €700...
...well let's just say I decided to stop complaining... It's also worth noting that the 3861 production Speedmasters do not come in this "old prod. Speedmaster" box, rather one that has the same texture and styling but without the additional straps, loupe, medallion, etc.





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Old 22 April 2021, 11:10 AM   #232
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Looks like it's been a while since this thread's been active...

...and in the interim the 3861s are "old news"...
I'm sure there's (at least) one thread about them and I'm sure there's at least one other person (besides myself) that was pretty dismayed that once again we're forced to choose between Hesalite and display caseback. If that wasn't bad enough... if you're into applied logos and Hesalite, you're SOL... If you're into movements and NOT into milk rings... well you're once again SOL.



But hang on... this ain't the 3861 thread ...it's the Ed Whi... err, make that now the "Speedmaster Moonwatch Calibre 321" thread...


So let's "talk" about that instead... as mine just landed this past SpeedyTuesday...










~~~~


p.s. We (incl. yours truly) all complained that the 321EW would be shipped in the "production" Speedmaster box but when I found out it can be purchased separately for like €700...
...well let's just say I decided to stop complaining... It's also worth noting that the 3861 production Speedmasters do not come in this "old prod. Speedmaster" box, rather one that has the same texture and styling but without the additional straps, loupe, medallion, etc.





Such a beautiful reference, congratulations and very appropriate it arrived on a Tuesday
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Old 22 April 2021, 11:58 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Travelller View Post
Looks like it's been a while since this thread's been active...

...and in the interim the 3861s are "old news"...
I'm sure there's (at least) one thread about them and I'm sure there's at least one other person (besides myself) that was pretty dismayed that once again we're forced to choose between Hesalite and display caseback. If that wasn't bad enough... if you're into applied logos and Hesalite, you're SOL... If you're into movements and NOT into milk rings... well you're once again SOL.



But hang on... this ain't the 3861 thread ...it's the Ed Whi... err, make that now the "Speedmaster Moonwatch Calibre 321" thread...


So let's "talk" about that instead... as mine just landed this past SpeedyTuesday...




~~~~


p.s. We (incl. yours truly) all complained that the 321EW would be shipped in the "production" Speedmaster box but when I found out it can be purchased separately for like €700...
...well let's just say I decided to stop complaining... It's also worth noting that the 3861 production Speedmasters do not come in this "old prod. Speedmaster" box, rather one that has the same texture and styling but without the additional straps, loupe, medallion, etc.



Big congratulations. Speedy on Tuesday
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Old 22 April 2021, 06:26 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelller View Post
Looks like it's been a while since this thread's been active...

...and in the interim the 3861s are "old news"...
I'm sure there's (at least) one thread about them and I'm sure there's at least one other person (besides myself) that was pretty dismayed that once again we're forced to choose between Hesalite and display caseback. If that wasn't bad enough... if you're into applied logos and Hesalite, you're SOL... If you're into movements and NOT into milk rings... well you're once again SOL.



But hang on... this ain't the 3861 thread ...it's the Ed Whi... err, make that now the "Speedmaster Moonwatch Calibre 321" thread...


So let's "talk" about that instead... as mine just landed this past SpeedyTuesday...










~~~~


p.s. We (incl. yours truly) all complained that the 321EW would be shipped in the "production" Speedmaster box but when I found out it can be purchased separately for like €700...
...well let's just say I decided to stop complaining... It's also worth noting that the 3861 production Speedmasters do not come in this "old prod. Speedmaster" box, rather one that has the same texture and styling but without the additional straps, loupe, medallion, etc.





Such a nice looking watch Like I said elsewhere, I'd much rather have this over a Daytona
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Old 22 April 2021, 08:48 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelller View Post
Looks like it's been a while since this thread's been active...

...and in the interim the 3861s are "old news"...
I'm sure there's (at least) one thread about them and I'm sure there's at least one other person (besides myself) that was pretty dismayed that once again we're forced to choose between Hesalite and display caseback. If that wasn't bad enough... if you're into applied logos and Hesalite, you're SOL... If you're into movements and NOT into milk rings... well you're once again SOL.



But hang on... this ain't the 3861 thread ...it's the Ed Whi... err, make that now the "Speedmaster Moonwatch Calibre 321" thread...


So let's "talk" about that instead... as mine just landed this past SpeedyTuesday...





~~~~


p.s. We (incl. yours truly) all complained that the 321EW would be shipped in the "production" Speedmaster box but when I found out it can be purchased separately for like €700...
...well let's just say I decided to stop complaining... It's also worth noting that the 3861 production Speedmasters do not come in this "old prod. Speedmaster" box, rather one that has the same texture and styling but without the additional straps, loupe, medallion, etc.


Big Congrats! Wear it in the best of health. If I may ask, how long have you waited for yours?
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Old 22 April 2021, 08:52 PM   #236
1William
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Congratulations. A beautiful watch.
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Old 23 April 2021, 10:48 AM   #237
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^Thx everyone Those who know me know that more pics are on the way...

Quote:
Originally Posted by benlee View Post
...how long have you waited for yours?
Let's see... Robert-Jan announced it on the 7th of Jan 2020 and I wrote* to my OB same day... so we're looking at just a little over 15mths


*Title of the email, which I still have: "Ed White 321 SS - 311.30.40.30.01.001 - I MUST HAVE ONE PLEEEEASE!!!"

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Old 11 May 2021, 09:05 PM   #238
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For your reading and/or viewing pleasure, fresh off the press

Speedmaster Caliber 321 "Ed White" - A pictorial



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Traveller - Genève * Melbourne * Miami * Wien
Breitling AVI 765r Navitimer 806r
Omega 3572.50 SM300MC Speedy Tuesday Caliber 321
Panerai 111 217 233
Rolex 16600 126600
Seiko SBGA125 SBDX001 SLA017 SLA025 SLA033
Tudor 5B GMT
Zénith A386ME
Other Mühle Glashütte S.A.R. Flieger Chronoswiss Tora
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Old 16 May 2021, 09:05 PM   #239
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Does anyone know how is the case and bracelet finishing of the 321 reissue like as compared with the standard Omega Speedmaster Pro 3861 Sapphire?
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Old 22 May 2021, 09:41 AM   #240
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Think I'll add to the timelines and information presented here.

Half deposit made exactly one year ago, OB east coast USA. Seeing as today was the anniversary of placing a half deposit, I made a call to inquire my position on the 321 waitlist. Their official quoted time is "we don't know" but their informal estimate is ~3 years.

Now of course production is much lower this year, but the OB has only seen 2 321s come through its doors since the announcement last year, so looks like I'm going grey market...

...but as far as I can see, the only reasonable grey market prices are from overseas.

Could it be that Omega is distributing more to Europe and Asia than to NA? Or is this just a selection bias from Chrono24's demographic?
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