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Old 10 October 2018, 01:59 AM   #1
BendyBee
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Would u do it?

Just came across a ref. I want at a reputable gray dealer. Used, minted, 2017-18, priced at mid way between AD pricelist and gray. However, no box and no paper.

Would you guys but it?


P.s. What’s the deal anyway with no paper? Seller trying to avoid being recognised as a flipper?
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Old 10 October 2018, 02:00 AM   #2
VanAdian
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Need more details. Pics, model, etc.
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Old 10 October 2018, 02:12 AM   #3
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A pictorial representation of the watch would have gone a long way in your description.
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Old 10 October 2018, 02:33 AM   #4
BendyBee
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It’s for the wifey
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File Type: jpeg 0318F223-82CD-4119-A714-CB28A0610E07.jpeg (155.8 KB, 495 views)
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Old 10 October 2018, 02:39 AM   #5
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Normally absolutely not but in this case reputable seller and it’s for the wife so likely to never be resold then hey why not.
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Old 10 October 2018, 02:41 AM   #6
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All Patek watches have a movement number and is unique to that watch. If this watch was sent in for service, the service center usually matches the movement number to the registered owner. If the watch was reported stolen, then you will be "up the creek without a paddle" so to speak. The watch will not be returned and it will end up likely back to the original owner whom now may have your monies paid AND the watch back!
Be careful of strangers bearing gifts!!!
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Old 10 October 2018, 04:12 AM   #7
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If you trust the seller 100% and have recourse should anything be off down the line then why not.
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Old 10 October 2018, 04:23 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BendyBee View Post
It’s for the wifey
I’m not clear, you say priced between AD and gray yet it comes without box and papers? Why are you not buying it gray with box and papers for less.
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Old 10 October 2018, 04:34 AM   #9
V25V
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7118 (not blue) like that really sells over MSRP from grays?
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Old 10 October 2018, 04:57 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by BendyBee View Post
P.s. What’s the deal anyway with no paper? Seller trying to avoid being recognised as a flipper?

Stolen watches don't come with papers.
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Old 10 October 2018, 04:59 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by V25V View Post
7118 (not blue) like that really sells over MSRP from grays?
Ha I missed that part. That is confusing.
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Old 10 October 2018, 05:04 AM   #12
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not for me, id like box and papers , or at least papers
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Old 10 October 2018, 05:06 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BendyBee View Post
Just came across a ref. I want at a reputable gray dealer. Used, minted, 2017-18, priced at mid way between AD pricelist and gray. However, no box and no paper.

Would you guys but it?


P.s. What’s the deal anyway with no paper? Seller trying to avoid being recognised as a flipper?
No, i would not buy this
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Old 10 October 2018, 05:27 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Codik View Post
Stolen watches don't come with papers.
+1 to this...

How did seller just "lose" the papers?
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Old 10 October 2018, 07:24 AM   #15
Fat_ninja
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Why do you need to go to a grey for that model? Just curious?
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Old 10 October 2018, 09:29 AM   #16
Ichiran
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The 7018 blue and grey are both quite hard to get. My wife has been waiting for her watch for close to 6 months.
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Old 10 October 2018, 10:38 AM   #17
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1) For a 1-year old Patek I’d want the full set. Even if you plan on getting the Extract later as a fallback, you’ll have to wait 4 years.

2) For a gift to the wife, the presentation box would certainly be a nice touch.
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Old 10 October 2018, 10:50 AM   #18
descartes
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Originally Posted by 1688 View Post
If the watch was reported stolen, then you will be "up the creek without a paddle" so to speak. The watch will not be returned and it will end up likely back to the original owner whom now may have your monies paid AND the watch back!
As a point of information, this is simply incorrect. If you are buying from a dealer then you are protected as a bona fide purchaser under the Uniform Commercial Code.
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Old 10 October 2018, 10:53 AM   #19
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As a point of information, this is simply incorrect. If you are buying from a dealer then you are protected as a bona fide purchaser under the Uniform Commercial Code.


The law differ based on where you are. The UCC obviously only applies in the US.

The bigger issue with buying stolen goods, in any event, is that it creates an incentives for thieves to carry on stealing.
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Old 10 October 2018, 11:27 AM   #20
Donjo
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You get what you pay for. You mentioned it's less than what a normal gray sells for. For me it would depend on how much the difference in price was. If it was several thousand different I would consider it. Just a couple thousand and I would prefer the box and papers
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Old 10 October 2018, 12:41 PM   #21
descartes
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The law differ based on where you are. The UCC obviously only applies in the US.

The bigger issue with buying stolen goods, in any event, is that it creates an incentives for thieves to carry on stealing.
True. UCC applies in US. Certain other countries do have an analog.
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Old 10 October 2018, 04:18 PM   #22
grimani
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True. UCC applies in US. Certain other countries do have an analog.
Time pursuing a claim under UCC isn’t without cost
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Old 10 October 2018, 04:22 PM   #23
henry333
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Go to a ad ..shouldn't be that hard to get one
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Old 10 October 2018, 10:09 PM   #24
descartes
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Time pursuing a claim under UCC isn’t without cost
You are in possession of the watch.

The whole point of this law is so that consumers can buy with confidence from dealers. It is impossible for a consumer to know whether any item-- with papers or not-- is stolen. That is why bona fide purchasers from those who deal ordinarily in such goods are protected. Otherwise, the commercial system would be completely chaotic and sales would be chilled, which is bad economic policy.
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Old 10 October 2018, 10:29 PM   #25
Codik
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Would u do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by descartes View Post
You are in possession of the watch.



The whole point of this law is so that consumers can buy with confidence from dealers. It is impossible for a consumer to know whether any item-- with papers or not-- is stolen. That is why bona fide purchasers from those who deal ordinarily in such goods are protected. Otherwise, the commercial system would be completely chaotic and sales would be chilled, which is bad economic policy.


Except different countries take different views and that’s not the case everywhere. In most of Europe the original owner can claim the watch back up to 3 years after the theft, even if it was bought in good faith. It would not surprise me if some places made this right permanent.

Lastly, in every jurisdiction I know of, knowingly buying a stolen item is treated the same as theft and leads to the same penalty. So if a court considers you knew (or should have known) the watch was stolen when you bought it, you might end up in jail.
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Old 10 October 2018, 10:31 PM   #26
1688
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Originally Posted by descartes View Post
You are in possession of the watch.

The whole point of this law is so that consumers can buy with confidence from dealers. It is impossible for a consumer to know whether any item-- with papers or not-- is stolen. That is why bona fide purchasers from those who deal ordinarily in such goods are protected. Otherwise, the commercial system would be completely chaotic and sales would be chilled, which is bad economic policy.
I agree. Papers or no papers, if the watch is sold through a reputable dealer then according to UCC law there is a transfer of title of the item to the new owners who purchased from the said dealer.
https://www.sdnyblog.com/judge-schei...rustment-rule/

I would still purchase with caution if there were no box and papers on the watch. Could have been lifted from somewhere...
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Old 11 October 2018, 10:47 AM   #27
BendyBee
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Thank u all for the comments. The 7018 is not easy to find around here. Every month or two it shows up in the gray market shop with around 20-30% mark-up (depending on dial color). I have decided to not buy it as this will be for 10th anni present in Jan next year. If the worst comes to the worst, i’ll get something else.
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