Why does a Daytona seem so hard to get?

[Ferrari308]

Ok, so that title got your attention - I'm sure.

Earlier this year, I bought my first Rolex, a TT black dial, diamond marker Daytona. I paid the premium over list for it. It was worth it for me to NOT have to get my name on a list and have to wait it out for (according to another thread here) twenty years to get it.

Yet, my feeling is that if you can afford to drop the money on a Daytona, then just pay the premium and be done with it. No real waiting, no real hassle. Maybe negotiate with the seller to come to an agreeable price and move on.

On Chrono24 there are over 5,000 Daytonas listed. 5,246 listed items. I know some items listed are dials or hands or other random pieces related to a Daytona, but let's go with 5,000. Even filtering out those for sale which are less than say $25,000 there are still 367 options - on just that website. And you and I know there are DOZENS of other possible places to buy a Daytona if you really want one. There are sellers here on TRF, and a quick google search will yield even more results.

Don't get me wrong - it's a lot of coin on a single watch. It's the most expensive thing I have ever purchased other than a house or car. I am just saying that if you really want one - there are options, yet I read people bemoaning the fact they can't get one from their AD. This has been discussed ad nauseum here for a long, long time.

Ultimately, if you want one and you have the money - there is one for you out there without the wait or the hassles of the empty AD shelves. For those of you who are or were able to get one at list prices, then congrats to you - seriously!!

Life is too short to wait or complain. Get out there and live your dreams and if that is owning a Daytona, or a Sub, or a GMT, then figure out how to make it happen!! I already have my next piece picked out, but have to figure out how I want to make it happen. I am not going to complain about the AD or anyone else - it doesn't do any good at all anyway does it??



PDG

[jb335]

The above message was brought to you by The Grey Market Sellers Association.


lol, I'm kidding, OP. You're probably not wrong. Sweet Daytona too.

[WatchNutcase]

I agree with your assessment, some people will value money over time and vice versa. It depends on the individual and his priorities.

If the watch isn't super important to you and a must have right away then waiting is usually the better idea. The two tone Daytona's are really not that difficult to get from the AD. It's the SS ones that will take years, a big purchase history, or a unique approach to obtain from the AD - sometimes all three.

[temporarychicken]

It's not at all hard to get. In the UK just pay 4xRRP and you'll have it. What it is, is expensive to get!!!!

Like buying crypto. Has it peaked, or due another massive bull run?? Payz yer moneyz takez yer choice!!

[Ferrari308]

Originally Posted by jb335

The above message was brought to you by The Grey Markert Sellers Association.


lol, I'm kidding, OP. You're probably not wrong. Sweet Daytona too.

Thank you! My wife is a huge fan of TT, so I chose it because she liked it and it will likely to go her, then my kids - one day. Yes, mine was purchased through the grey market, but I am not advocating that specifically. Just saying that pretty much anything you want is available and out there - even if it's used, or pre-owned as they call it now.

If someone wants a brand new Daytona, then that changes everything - its still available - just not at list price.

Originally Posted by WatchNutcase

I agree with your assessment, some people will value money over time and vice versa. It depends on the individual and his priorities.

If the watch isn't super important to you and a must have right away then waiting is usually the better idea. The two tone Daytona's are really not that difficult to get from the AD. It's the SS ones that will take years, a big purchase history, or a unique approach to obtain from the AD - sometimes all three.

Absolutely - but even if you want a SS Daytona - it's available. It really does come down to the time-value of money. I don't want to wait 7-10 years or more to get the watch I want.

My goal with anything like this is to be able to get it, so that my kids can see me wearing it and know that once it goes to them that it came directly from me. Maybe I value this differently because I have few things that were passed to me from my own dad. When he passed, his then relatively new wife and her family took everything. I was literally left with a few things that I had put away in storage - a few paintings/drawings he had done and such. But due to that thievery and the fact my father passed away at a relatively young 54 it means something to me.

Tomorrow I turn 52 and I have three Rolexes - one for each of my children. I don't know if I will see 54, or how long I have after that. I do know that when I take our family portraits I want them to be able to look back on those 40 or 50 years from now and look at their wrist and be able to realize that they are wearing part of our family history.

So, why wait?



PDG

[ThatDaniel]

For me, I think waiting and getting surprised by my AD is a fun part in this game. I don't need any of the watches right away. And the experience of buying from AD is much better than grey.

[loftycomfort]

For me, it’s not about valuing my time more than my money or anything like that. For me, a sought after Rolex* is only attractive to me if I can buy it at MSRP at an AD. Ok, I need to like the watch based on its merits regardless of hype too. A watch that I can buy instantly at 2x 3x premium from grey is only a fraction of the attractiveness and satisfaction of the exact same watch that I buy from AD at MSRP.

Some collectors value the market hype of a watch, some disproportionally value box and papers. I disproportionally value the “bought new from AD” experience when it comes to watch shopping.

The trick is finding the way to buy that watch from AD without spending too much money on other stuff to get there (I never buy things that I don’t actually want just for the sake of AD relationship building).

In other words: I’m one of “the thrill is in the chase” type of guy. When you’re in the chase game, instant gratification is out of the window. I don’t view going to my AD to talk with my SA a hassle, and I understand the time I invest to visiting the store may not yield anything. To me, the alternative of buying straight from grey and end up getting less satisfaction is a worse outcome. Of course, I can only speak for myself.

* - my “no grey” rule applies mostly to Rolexes because ADs are the 100% risk free route when it comes to avoiding counterfeits.

[OrangeSport]

I disagree

At MSRP Rolex are over priced. Better watches are available for less. But, because of the brand image and the very conservative updates, they retain their value well. This offset their OTT pricing.

Buying at (let's say) 3 times MSRP is mental. It's very likely that prices will stabilise over time, and besides that there are MUCH better watches to be had at that level..

But everyone has to make their decision.

[gmtbatman]

In my world, MSRP does not exist. I do not have purchase history, so whatever price is in Rolex's catalog is moot and irrelevant. I am also not interested in cucking to retail workers who wouldn't even be able to afford a Rolex if they didn't work at the AD. I'd rather establish relationships with Grey market dealers that feel more like peers than authority figures. I understand many disagree. And for those of you that do, I still hope you have a lovely week and Thanksgiving holiday :)

[Ferrari308]

Originally Posted by loftycomfort

For me, it’s not about valuing my time more than my money or anything like that. For me, a sought after Rolex* is only attractive to me if I can buy it at MSRP at an AD. Ok, I need to like the watch based on its merits regardless of hype too. A watch that I can buy instantly at 2x 3x premium from grey is only a fraction of the attractiveness and satisfaction of the exact same watch that I buy from AD at MSRP.

Some collectors value the market hype of a watch, some disproportionally value box and papers. I disproportionally value the “bought new from AD” experience when it comes to watch shopping.

The trick is finding the way to buy that watch from AD without spending too much money on other stuff to get there (I never buy things that I don’t actually want just for the sake of AD relationship building).

In other words: I’m one of “the thrill is in the chase” type of guy. When you’re in the chase game, instant gratification is out of the window. I don’t view going to my AD to talk with my SA a hassle, and I understand the time I invest to visiting the store may not yield anything. To me, the alternative of buying straight from grey and end up getting less satisfaction is a worse outcome. Of course, I can only speak for myself.

* - my “no grey” rule applies mostly to Rolexes because ADs are the 100% risk free route when it comes to avoiding counterfeits.

I can absolutely 100% understand this. I LOVE the thrill of the chase of a lot of my own personal hobbies. I collect comic books, so the thrill of finding a comic I have wanted for a long time is absolutely fantastic!!



PDG

[Little machines]

Congratulations !! Nice looking watch! Live for your moment and enjoy !

[Ferrari308]

Originally Posted by OrangeSport

I disagree

At MSRP Rolex are over priced. Better watches are available for less. But, because of the brand image and the very conservative updates, they retain their value well. This offset their OTT pricing.

Buying at (let's say) 3 times MSRP is mental. It's very likely that prices will stabilise over time, and besides that there are MUCH better watches to be had at that level..

But everyone has to make their decision.

I agree with you for the most part.

For me, from the time I was a teenager back in the 1980s I decided I wanted a Rolex. It was always out of reach for me, so when the opportunity came my wife agreed to let me do whatever I wanted. So, I decided on the Daytona. I looked around for a while and there were a couple that really piqued our interest. While I COULD have paid 3x MSRP that seemed going too wide of the mark. She and I both tend to wear more TT, and I stumbled into mine.

Even when I bought mine earlier this year I didn't really realize what an almost unicorn it was, as it was obviously bought by a flipper with a date card that was only about a week or so before it arrived on my doorstep.

But I will never forget the moment I opened it up and saw it for the first time.

Definitely a special watch.

But I rambled off target there for a few minutes...



PDG

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by Ferrari308

So, why wait?

PDG

Depends on the watch, how much you want it, and how much you are prepared to pay. Multiply that by the number of people that want one who each have their own red lines and tipping points. The permutations are endless.

In my case, I considered Hulk and SS black Sky Dweller worth the grey premium when I bought them. I wouldn't pay the difference now. Blue SS Sky Dweller and SS BLRO are two watches I want very much but not enough to pay the grey premium. I now have my AD supplied BLRO. I can wait for the Sky dweller. Why? because it's only a watch and I have other nice watches.

Each to our own.

[vh2k]

if the Daytona weren't worth considerably MORE in the secondary market... most of this would be a non-issue. Yes, the ceramic bezel made it a visually attractive watch. But, an overwhelming amount of the allure is driven by perceived (not actual) scarcity and premium price listings by secondary resellers.

[Mystro]

If you know you want a Daytona (any Daytona) the time to make that happen is right now regardless what you think is outrageous $$$. Price is relative. History has shown the longer you wait, the more money it will cost you to purchase one down the road. I have learned this the hard way after 30+ years owning Rolex models.
The SS Daytona has ALWAYS been a limited production/release model the last 2.5 decades. There is a reason it is THE most sought after wrist watch in the industry and the interest and the amount of new money that is taking notice of the Daytona is only growing.

[Henrimontgomery]

Up to you guys if you want a watch with missing links, no certitude of origin for all the pieces, has been used to show off Instagram and sponsor the lifestyle of middlemen thinking they got it all figured out.

I’m not paying a single unit of currency above MSRP, and I’m certainly not buying a Rolex in production elsewhere than at an AD.

[Phrank]

Agree OP - that was my story in a nutshell - starting in around 1989-91 - can't remember exactly.

My GF at the time (now wife) bought me a really nice Seiko Chronograph, I considered it my first "real" watch, was $1,000 Cdn after tax!

Then I saw a poster of the Rolex Daytona, realized the Seiko I had bought was somewhat modelled after it, but my jaw dropped. This was my watch.

Think at the time it was around $8,000 Cdn, a staggering amount for a watch. Some years later, when I enquired, the store said waiting list and laughed. Waiting lists, price kept going up, went through that experience about 5 or 6 other times over 20 years till I finally said enough!

Brenngun, another member here, we spoke on the phone, he guided me through the process, and once I got in touch with Tony from JUSTROLEXES, literal jaw dropping over the watch of my dreams - it was in my hand 3 days later. What a moment that was!

Aside from wanting the watch, I wanted something to leave my son when I leave the planet. My father passed away at 50 suddenly, I was 20 and it was devastating, and the only thing I had of his was a dinner jacket.

Yes, I agree, for me at least, that watch meant and means a lot to me, I never tire of wearing it or putting it on. Best thing I did for myself in awhile. And for me, I like the idea my son will have something of me when I move on. Told him, if he ever gets into a tight situation, look down at that watch, know I'm smiling at you, and if you have to sell it to get yourself out of a situation, I'll be glad I could be there for you.

Behold! Rolex Daytona 116520, V-Serial, box and all the papers/tags for the Win! lol

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by WatchNutcase

I agree with your assessment, some people will value money over time and vice versa. It depends on the individual and his priorities.

If the watch isn't super important to you and a must have right away then waiting is usually the better idea. The two tone Daytona's are really not that difficult to get from the AD. It's the SS ones that will take years, a big purchase history, or a unique approach to obtain from the AD - sometimes all three.

Agreed, except circumstantially speaking, simply waiting for a retail purchase is most likely not an option at all for many of us.

That leaves buy or don't. As you said it comes down to priorities and how badly you want the watch. No right or wrong.

I'm still technically waiting for my 116500. I was never offered a daytona at retail but I have owned 3.

1st - black dial BNIB, price paid around $16k.
2nd - Traded black for white dial, added some money. In for around $17.8k
3rd - Almost exactly a year ago after always regretting selling my white dial daytona I decided to bite the bullet and get it back. I paid the "i don't give a f***" total of $26k.

All three prices seem like a bargain today lol. Never once regretted buying, only selling.

[Chiboy]

OP, your situation as far as buying one gray is different, and luckier, than most. Two tone seems to be a way lower gray price than SS, gold or platinum. And diamond markers are probably less sought after than other dials. So you’re fortunate to like what you like. And to not be hopping aboard the hype train.

I can’t speak for others but would not be surprised if others also COULD afford the $30k premium for a white Daytona, but perhaps don’t value it that highly. So they don’t buy anything, or choose something else. That’s my opinion.

Glad you got what you wanted at a price and premium that made sense to you.

[Ferrari308]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

OP, your situation as far as buying one gray is different, and luckier, than most. Two tone seems to be a way lower gray price than SS, gold or platinum. And diamond markers are probably less sought after than other dials. So you’re fortunate to like what you like. And to not be hopping aboard the hype train.

I can’t speak for others but would not be surprised if others also COULD afford the $30k premium for a white Daytona, but perhaps don’t value it that highly. So they don’t buy anything, or choose something else. That’s my opinion.

Glad you got what you wanted at a price and premium that made sense to you.

Thank you!

To be sure, I was blessed with a wife that understood and went along with it (and my subsequent purchases of my Sub and OP).

I think a real driving force for me over the last few years is having watched my dad have so many dreams of adventure. For example, he wanted to retire and buy a boat of some sort and go down the Mississippi River. Unfortunately, cancer got him about ten years before he retired, so that adventure never happened for him.

I have had a lot of adventures in my life. I consider myself to have been extremely blessed for a lot of reasons, so when this presented itself to me I chose to go for all the marbles (that's why I got the three - all different eras - 4, 5, and 6 digit references).

Sometime I will write up some of my adventures and post them here for others to enjoy or laugh at, whatever the case may be.

Carpe Diem - Seize the Day.



PDG

[ProCoach]

@Ferrari308, we probably met on FChat many years ago. I am with you 1000%

Originally Posted by Mystro

If you know you want a Daytona (any Daytona) the time to make that happen is right now regardless what you think is outrageous $$$. Price is relative. History has shown the longer you wait, the more money it will cost you to purchase one down the road. I have learned this the hard way after 30+ years owning Rolex models.

The SS Daytona has ALWAYS been a limited production/release model the last 2.5 decades. There is a reason it is THE most sought after wrist watch in the industry and the interest and the amount of new money that is taking notice of the Daytona is only growing.

^^THIS^^

I don't want any other Rolex reference. No interest.

I've wanted this reference (16520/116520 white index) since I was working at the Rolex 24 exactly thirty years ago and the winning team's drivers (and team owner) got one.

I'm not a collector. I use it, as a tool watch, at the track a couple times a month.

The time is now.

"If you want to ride the train, you have to buy a ticket..." -one of my ex-business partners. He wasn't wrong.

Originally Posted by Chadridv

Agreed, except circumstantially speaking, simply waiting for a retail purchase is most likely not an option at all for many of us.

That leaves buy or don't. As you said it comes down to priorities and how badly you want the watch. No right or wrong.

I'm still technically waiting for my 116500. I was never offered a daytona at retail but I have owned 3.

1st - black dial BNIB, price paid around $16k.
2nd - Traded black for white dial, added some money. In for around $17.8k
3rd - Almost exactly a year ago after always regretting selling my white dial daytona I decided to bite the bullet and get it back. I paid the "i don't give a f***" total of $26k.

All three prices seem like a bargain today lol. Never once regretted buying, only selling.

Bravo! I hope to add to my Daytona collection, though!

[Scrubnut]

Theres a guy who drinks in my local pub who is interested in watches and we chat about new purchases and so on. He tells me that when he was working, he always spent his bonus money on a watch. One day i notice he is wearing a Daytona. He lets me try it on....its a Zenith. I said if he wanted to sell it, let me know, and he has literally no idea what this watch is worth. I gave him a ballpark figure off the top of my head and he's surprised how much it has increased over-the years hes owned it. The best bit was when he tells me he has 3 of them!! He promised to show me the next weekend....and he did. That was the first and only time in my life ill be wearing a Zenith Daytona on each wrist. I must say, id like one!

[mew]

Great piece, I agree with the one and done approach to going grey.

Yes, getting a Daytona at MSRP at an AD is great but that would require buying a significant number of slow moving pieces as a favour to the AD and I’m not going to waste my time playing that game.

Never understood getting on a “list” for the Daytona without prior purchase history and hoping the AD will deliver.

[1665fan]

Originally Posted by Scrubnut

Theres a guy who drinks in my local pub who is interested in watches and we chat about new purchases and so on. He tells me that when he was working, he always spent his bonus money on a watch. One day i notice he is wearing a Daytona. He lets me try it on....its a Zenith. I said if he wanted to sell it, let me know, and he has literally no idea what this watch is worth. I gave him a ballpark figure off the top of my head and he's surprised how much it has increased over-the years hes owned it. The best bit was when he tells me he has 3 of them!! He promised to show me the next weekend....and he did. That was the first and only time in my life ill be wearing a Zenith Daytona on each wrist. I must say, id like one!

Sounds great! Any pics? That sounds like a cool dude

[HiBoost]

Even though some argue Rolex is technically a charity, I don't believe they set their pricing to be charitable to the customers. We know they are making a nice profit selling the SS ceramic Daytona for $13k. By literal definition, it is a $13k watch. The delta between that figure and "market value" is the price of hype, pure and simple. Nevertheless, I want one too.

The only way to make oneself feel like it's not completely absurd is to browse a listing for a $35k green dial Patek at $475k. If there isn't such a phrase as "watch PE ratio" I'm coining it now. Daytona at 2.7 is a way better value than 5711 at 13.6.

[ProCoach]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

The only way to make oneself feel like it's not completely absurd is to browse a listing for a $35k green dial Patek at $475k.

If there isn't such a thing has "watch PE ratio" I'm coining it now. Daytona at 2.7 is a way better value than 5711 at 13.6.

Dude! While I was feeling good before with my new watch, I’m feeling a LOT better, now! Thanks!

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by ProCoach

Dude! While I was feeling good before with my new watch, I’m feeling a LOT better, now! Thanks!

Some will disparagingly call me an enabler, but I'm really just here to help :)

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

[Laszlo]

Congrats

[RolexSimon]

Watch PE ratio - probably good way to feel better abut BLRO, subs and sky-dwellers.

[ks58]

Honestly, I think it’s great that there are different mindsets of people who are willing to pay market rate versus list rate and wait a long time.