Well, I'm pretty sure I got scammed...

[bob78h]

Hi guys, I've been a long time lurker on these forums and only recently made an account after I bought my first Rolex and got hooked. Recently I wanted to reward myself with a new watch for 2 years at my current job and my first big raise. After asking for feedback here, I ultimately decided on a Sub-C ND, and after doing a lot of reading I decided to try buying from a listing on another watch forum. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure I got scammed.

Listing here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/73792...mariner+114060

I feel like I did my research, but apparently I was not thorough enough. The asking price was good but not absurdly good, so it didn't set off any alarm bells. I contacted the seller, who provided me references (2 from emails and 1 from a forum post). I verified the forum reference had many years of post history and transactions, looked up his info on Google to verify he was who he said he was, and called him. All of that checked out and he was very helpful.

I also double checked the images in the post through Google Images and it did not seem like he had stolen them from anyone. He sent me additional pictures via email that also looked legit, and photos of him holding the watch when I asked. I spoke with him on the phone, and in general he was very helpful and willing to answer any questions I had. So, I decided to pull the trigger and wired him $5200. Given how most sellers want payment by wire, I didn't think much of this.

He continued to keep in contact through the week, saying he had received the funds and would ship. Then he said his kids had to go to the hospital with a cold so he was delayed, and he'd ship this morning. Well that has come and gone with no tracking info, and it has been increasingly impossible to get a hold of him. Not answering phone or emails. I am in full panic mode now. I cross checked the bank account (in his "wife's" name) and home address, and found her Facebook page. It seems her husband had passed away a few years ago, and there was no mention of her being remarried. It is also suspicious that his name and her name had the same middle initial and last name.

At this point, I'm considering that money is probably gone and this has turned into one expensive lesson. I really can't believe I was stupid enough to fall for this. Although I saw no major red flags, there were smaller signs that I should've paid attention to. I've contacted my bank who said they can only recall the funds if the account holder agrees to it, and the police, who said they would file a report but doubt anything will come of it. Even though I have copies of all the emails with him confirming payment and saying he would ship it, apparently they consider it a "civil matter".

For the members who have experience with this, is there anything else I can do? The seller gave an address in Orlando, FL. Unfortunately I'm on the other side of the country in CA so I can't even check that out.

I am going to stick to local deals from now on. I know there are a lot of trusted sellers on this site, but having been burned so badly this time, I don't know if I'll ever feel comfortable wiring money to a stranger and simply trusting them to uphold their end of the bargain. It is just not worth it to risk losing thousands of dollars in order to potentially save a few hundred. Especially for a large purchase like this, that I don't plan on making very often.

I'm pretty devastated about this and really just feel embarrassed and stupid. Whats was supposed to be a celebration of my achievement has instead turned into a sour experience. I think I will probably still end up getting a Sub locally to try to move past this, but now I will need to sell off my Explorer to recover some of the funds. Luckily this will not have a huge impact on my financial situation, but the idea of someone walking away with my hard earned money just boils my blood.

Thank you all for your help. I know this is a long post, but I haven't had a chance to vent about this to anyone, so even just typing this out made me feel a little bit better.

[imperio]

Sorry to hear.

Have you tried entering his email address in Facebook/LinkedIn etc? I imagine he would get quite the shock if you rang him at his workplace.

Any info you have on this person would be useful if posted on here at this point for two reasons - 1. someone might be able to track him (he doesn't sound like a run of the mill scammer, from what you described it sounds like he's just trying his luck at pulling a fast one on someone) and 2. it will give a heads up to anyone possible currently thinking of transacting with him.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bob78h]

Originally Posted by imperio

Sorry to hear.

Have you tried entering his email address in Facebook/LinkedIn etc? I imagine he would get quite the shock if you rang him at his workplace.

Any info you have on this person would be useful if posted on here at this point for two reasons - 1. someone might be able to track him (he doesn't sound like a run of the mill scammer, from what you described it sounds like he's just trying his luck at pulling a fast one on someone) and 2. it will give a heads up to anyone possible currently thinking of transacting with him.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, I tried searching his email and came up empty. On the phone he seemed to speak English reasonably well although with a noticeable accent.

The reference I called dealt with him 8 years ago, so I'm thinking he may have hijacked the original seller's email address since then. And then either stole the woman in Florida's bank info, is laundering the money through her account, or she is in on it.

His screen name and IP are shown in the link in the original post. I wanted to give the police and my bank the opportunity to investigate before I reveal the rest of the info, since I don't know if the woman at that address is in on it or not. If they have nothing for me by the end of today, I'll post it here for you guys to look into.

[cda555]

Have you tried contacting the woman? Maybe she can reverse the charge if it is with her bank? Also, have you tried looking up the IP address from the ad with a lookup site?

[imperio]

I googled his email address and looked up the IP addresses he logs in from; they all seem to be from Buffalo NY...

[GregoryZ]

So sorry Bob, you're not alone. I had a similar thing happen when I purchased an older Patek Calatrava about 5 years ago. Sent the money and no watch. I too learned my lesson the hard way.

[bob78h]

Originally Posted by cda555

Have you tried contacting the woman? Maybe she can reverse the charge if it is with her bank? Also, have you tried looking up the IP address from the ad with a lookup site?

The IP traces to Miami. I am debating whether to get in touch with her. All I have to go off of is a Facebook profile, and I kind of doubt she would reply to a message from a complete stranger. If she is on it, I'm also hesitant to reveal more of my personal info by contacting her.

As part of the bank investigation, her bank stated that they tried to contact her and were unable to, so they closed the investigation and advised us to resolve it between ourselves. I mentioned that I thought some sort of fraud or even ID theft may be going on with that account but they seemed uninterested in looking into it. I guess they only want to investigate if they are forced to by the police . My bank said they will continue to push them to investigate more, but I'm not expecting too much.

[bob78h]

Originally Posted by imperio

I googled his email address and looked up the IP addresses he logs in from; they all seem to be from Buffalo NY...

I'm not sure how reliable the lookups are. I used iplocation.net and it gives me 5 results, 1 from Miami and the rest from NYC.

[cda555]

Originally Posted by bob78h

The IP traces to Miami. I am debating whether to get in touch with her. All I have to go off of is a Facebook profile, and I kind of doubt she would reply to a message from a complete stranger. If she is on it, I'm also hesitant to reveal more of my personal info by contacting her.

As part of the bank investigation, her bank stated that they tried to contact her and were unable to, so they closed the investigation and advised us to resolve it between ourselves. I mentioned that I thought some sort of fraud or even ID theft may be going on with that account but they seemed uninterested in looking into it. I guess they only want to investigate if they are forced to by the police . My bank said they will continue to push them to investigate more, but I'm not expecting too much.

I did 3 informal searches from different sites and got 2 in NYC and one in Czech Republic. I am not well versed in IP addresses.

Maybe make a fake FB profile?

[imperio]

Originally Posted by bob78h

I'm not sure how reliable the lookups are. I used iplocation.net and it gives me 5 results, 1 from Miami and the rest from NYC.

I googled his email address and he has similar posts from earlier this year/last year. I clicked on those sites and looked up a few of the IP addresses; they seem to be from NYC.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/73792...bmariner+16610

http://www.network54.com/Forum/35339...iaio+PAM+00424

http://www.network54.com/Forum/35339...75/FS-+Pam+425

http://www.network54.com/Forum/35339...am+425+Reduced

http://www.network54.com/Forum/35339...minor+Pam00590

http://www.network54.com/Forum/73792...bmariner+16610

http://www.network54.com/Forum/35339...iaio+PAM+00424

http://www.network54.com/Forum/35339...iaio+PAM+00424

http://www.network54.com/Forum/73792...70330N+Reduced

[rolehex]

Very sorry to hear about this. Seems like you are blaming yourself, but from what I read, you shouldn't beat yourself up too badly here. You got outsmarted by a professional scammer and it happens everyday as you know. My recommendation is that you post all the info you have about this person. There are a lot of sleuthy people on this forum that are adept at providing advice on such matters.


Post all the name(s) involved because worst case scenario, it may prevent someone else from getting scammed in the future.

[Rolex_Rookie]

I sent the OP a private message, but thought others may benefit from this info as well. One of my job duties is conducting social media research on individuals to ensure what they're telling us is consistent with their online presence. I usually start my search with www.pipl.com. It's a free site that searches multiple social media sites (Facebook, instagram, LinkedIn, etc.) at once. Although usually more efficient than checking each individual site, pipl.com is not perfect and often times I've found dirt that slipped by pipl, but it's a good start.

In a situation where I'm having a hard time tracking down an individual, I hire a local process serving company to conduct a skip trace. The skip trace only costs $100 and it's quite comprehensive, usually including phone numbers (including cell), addresses, known affiliates, criminal record, etc. In fact, they even found one of my client's in prison, I wonder why I couldn't find her!

The issue with both methods above is you need good info up front (garbage in, garbage out) in order to get good results. I know there are other skip trace services out there, but I'm happy to share my resources with any TRF members that may benefit. Hoping for a happy ending!

[Dartmouthbrian]

Originally Posted by Rolex_Rookie

I sent the OP a private message, but thought others may benefit from this info as well. One of my job duties is conducting social media research on individuals to ensure what they're telling us is consistent with their online presence. I usually start my search with www.pipl.com. It's a free site that searches multiple social media sites (Facebook, instagram, LinkedIn, etc.) at once. Although usually more efficient than checking each individual site, pipl.com is not perfect and often times I've found dirt that slipped by pipl, but it's a good start.

In a situation where I'm having a hard time tracking down an individual, I hire a local process serving company to conduct a skip trace. The skip trace only costs $100 and it's quite comprehensive, usually including phone numbers (including cell), addresses, known affiliates, criminal record, etc. In fact, they even found one of my client's in prison, I wonder why I couldn't find her!

The issue with both methods above is you need good info up front (garbage in, garbage out) in order to get good results. I know there are other skip trace services out there, but I'm happy to share my resources with any TRF members that may benefit. Hoping for a happy ending!

great info. OP I am so sorry to hear that this happened to you.

[bob78h]

Ok, I haven't gotten any promising updates from my bank or the local police, so here is the info I have for the seller:

Charles Muranaka (screen name CharlseM on Paneristi) aka Charles V. Pierce
muranakacharles@gmail.com
Phone number: 407-479-7365

The references he provided:
markh3rb3rt@yahoo.com
judyparriman247@yahoo.com
http://forums.watchnet.com/index.php...o=202684&rid=0
Also said he has purchased from Gai Gohai and Govberg

Bank info: Bank of America, 390 N Orange Ave, Orlando, FL 32801
Account and routing numbers: is it ok to post this?
Account name: Melissa V Pierce
Home address: 141 Ormond Rd, Orlando, FL 32807-8235

Maybe one of our more tech or legal savvy members could make use of this info and suggest some possible next steps? I tried but wasn't able to get any useful info from the EXIF data of the photos or email headers, but if anyone here wants to take a look I can provide them.

I am also attaching 3 of the photos he sent me, in case he decides to reuse any of them in the future. I hope this prevents others from making the same mistakes I did.

[ocwatching]

He has since deleted all the photos from the post...I hope you have saved them..or make a post about your experience on P.com

[bob78h]

Originally Posted by ocwatching

He has since deleted all the photos from the post...I hope you have saved them..or make a post about your experience on P.com

Just applied for posting privileges there and will be that once approved.

[epc2]

I'm almost sure it's the Same guy:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=537167

The username Melvin-f who got banned and ended up being the same guys as AlbertGregg and Jarton , provided that same email reference to two different members:

judyparriman247@yahoo.com
And also said the same thing about Gai Gohai and Govberg

Same Scammer.

Looks like he steals bank info since he has provided accounts in AL, Fl and MD.

Sorry you got scammed, and this guy just won't stop there's another ad in the forums right now which I'm sure it's the same guy Again.

[U5512]

1) Sorry to hear about your experience.
2) Always buy the seller, and go with known trusted sellers such as DavidSW on this site. You might pay a little more with known trusted sellers, but you will receive your watch rather than losing thousands of dollars and lots of sleepless nights.
3) NEVER wire money to unknown sellers; always pay with a credit card via PayPal.
4) Lots of scammers out there working on these watch forums, and once you wire the money it's GONE forever.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f2/i-th...d-3939690.html

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f63/pot...s-2071754.html

[youthagainsttt]

It is an expensive lesson and unfortunate but hopefully you will get a great deal on your next piece but sticking with Trusted AD's

I'd also advise reading up on replica watches - it sounds funny but you need to know how to recognise replica from genuine watches and this is one way to do it. This is another major scam that you have to be wary of

[HL65]

Sorry for your loss and expensive lesson to learn. I have said it countless times here but don't ever buy from an unknown seller. There are so many great sellers here with stellar reputations and tons of positive feedback to gamble on an unknown to save a few bucks. There is a reason they list below market.

[tommy91]

Originally Posted by HL65

Sorry for your loss and expensive lesson to learn. I have said it countless times here but don't ever buy from an unknown seller. There are so many great sellers here with stellar reputations and tons of positive feedback to gamble on an unknown to save a few bucks. There is a reason they list below market.

I agree 100% but sellers do need to start from somewhere, in the end they all start at the same place. It does make sense for them to put below market price as they wouldn't sell it with very little references.

[AbsolutelyROLEX!]

Personally I would fly to Orlando in person and deal with it there.

[bob78h]

Originally Posted by epc2

I'm almost sure it's the Same guy:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=537167

The username Melvin-f who got banned and ended up being the same guys as AlbertGregg and Jarton , provided that same email reference to two different members:

judyparriman247@yahoo.com
And also said the same thing about Gai Gohai and Govberg

Same Scammer.

Looks like he steals bank info since he has provided accounts in AL, Fl and MD.

Sorry you got scammed, and this guy just won't stop there's another ad in the forums right now which I'm sure it's the same guy Again.

It is sounding more and more like it is the same guy. It does make sense that he is using stolen bank accounts, it would explain why the bank info seemed to check out. I will be providing this info to the police. Hopefully they will be more willing to investigate once it is clear that this guy is a career criminal and not just a one time scammer.

[bob78h]

Originally Posted by HL65

Sorry for your loss and expensive lesson to learn. I have said it countless times here but don't ever buy from an unknown seller. There are so many great sellers here with stellar reputations and tons of positive feedback to gamble on an unknown to save a few bucks. There is a reason they list below market.

Yup, I should have been more careful. I got lulled into believing his info checked out and didn't think to protect myself more carefully. I have definitely learned now, especially with large purchases, it is worth spending a little extra for the peace of mind.

[skkali168]

Sorry to hear that, I was going to wire someone money yesterday for a watch, asked if i could give him a call and he freaked out lol. So ended up not making the deal. It was for 7,500 bucks you think he would give me a chance to talk to him for some peace of mind.

[bob78h]

Originally Posted by skkali168

Sorry to hear that, I was going to wire someone money yesterday for a watch, asked if i could give him a call and he freaked out lol. So ended up not making the deal. It was for 7,500 bucks you think he would give me a chance to talk to him for some peace of mind.

Sounds like you dodged a bullet. As I learned firsthand, even if he wants to talk on the phone he could still be a scammer. If he completely refuses that would be a huge red flag for me. Please be careful!