I think I have an ultra-rare 1962 Submariner.

[964RS]

Originally Posted by Submariner62

It feels strange to be the one who has something potentially valuable...

If it's correct it is not 'potentially valuable', it is MEGA valuable!!

Hope you are doing significant research on what an original watch of this type is worth....they have been sky rocketing over last two years.

Really hope all is correct for you, that is an amazing find if it is, second only to finding a winning lottery ticket!

Please make sure you keep it safe and insured while discussing it's future.

Best of luck

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by marcello pisani

untill now I have done no comment but after the usual flood of messages ( a sort of new " British Invasion " LOL LOL LOL ) about this watch ... I have at last taken some time to check the pictures and here is a little comparison between this watch
and two other examples ( the one sold by AS some years ago and another example sold by a UK auction house in 2008 ) :
1) present watch :


2) UK auction :


3) AS watch :


some crystal clear points :
a ) watches nr. 2 and 3 have the very same line of maximum depth ;
b ) item nr.1 shows many differencies from others ( some already shared by Jed ) such as :
-- fonts of letters " m " and " f " ( that in nr .1 is by the way much shorter )
-- width of maximum depth line
-- spacing of the two lines ( in item nr. 1 distance is much higher ).
-- letters and number in item nr.1 look bigger than in other two .
work in progress ....

What can be deduced from this? Anything definitive?

[eco8gator]

That appears to be radium lume and a lot of it.

If I had to guess the emissions at 1in from the dial...50uSv/hr to 150uSv.hr.

Fly to NYC and personally bring it to the Rolex Service center. Get it checked and get a COA directly from them...pay the price...it's worth it. It's inherited and you put nothing in it so far so the 300-500 you put in it for papers will be well worth it because that watch can be work stupid money... Something like this with papers and completely original could bring crazy money at a real auction house.

Regards

[mtl514]

Here are 3 5512 gilt dials.. They all have different depth rating/submariner combos.
First: dr is paint and submariner is gilt
Second: dr and submariner both paint
Third: dr and submariner in gilt

I wouldn't compare one to the other, only another of same type. Again for printed depth rating the op's watch is correct, font and spacing.

[marcello pisani]

[mtl514]

I'm sorry, hope I didn't speak out of turn. Full respect Marcello

[Wing Zero]

Very interesting Post. Will have to subscribe to see the final outcome.
Good Luck to you, I'll defer to the experts on this.

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by eco8gator

That appears to be radium lume and a lot of it.

If I had to guess the emissions at 1in from the dial...50uSv/hr to 150uSv.hr.

Fly to NYC and personally bring it to the Rolex Service center. Get it checked and get a COA directly from them...pay the price...it's worth it. It's inherited and you put nothing in it so far so the 300-500 you put in it for papers will be well worth it because that watch can be work stupid money... Something like this with papers and completely original could bring crazy money at a real auction house.

Regards

If it was so easy...

[greekbum]

Originally Posted by eco8gator

That appears to be radium lume and a lot of it.

If I had to guess the emissions at 1in from the dial...50uSv/hr to 150uSv.hr.

Fly to NYC and personally bring it to the Rolex Service center. Get it checked and get a COA directly from them...pay the price...it's worth it. It's inherited and you put nothing in it so far so the 300-500 you put in it for papers will be well worth it because that watch can be work stupid money... Something like this with papers and completely original could bring crazy money at a real auction house.

Regards

Don't waste your time going to rolex they won't tell you anything. Bottom line for me is to have an expert who deals in these watches look at it. If your looking to sell it listen to his offer. I have seen some of the refinished lets call them dials and they are extremely good. I would be nervous buying one without having the dial out of the watch myself. This is just my opinion and others have theres.

[Krypt0n1te]

OK, I'll ask the question. What could the potential value be?

[Haywood_Milton]

Full spec 5517 money might seem half-reasonable comparison for an Explorer dial 5513 which was beyond dispute, but there can be no "right" answer with watches so rare.

"Beyond dispute" is a moderately important part of that sentence.

Very few people in a position to buy it on their own, for want of confidence rather than of funds.

Haywood M

[mtl514]

Originally Posted by Krypt0n1te

OK, I'll ask the question. What could the potential value be?

Sky is the limit!
But down here on earth this may help answer your question
https://www.picollecta.com/p/rolex-s...ord-1000515236
http://www.bornrich.com/rolex-watch-...ing-82000.html
Both articles are of same auction

[nocrown]

Originally Posted by mtl514

Sky is the limit!
But down here on earth this may help answer your question
https://www.picollecta.com/p/rolex-s...ord-1000515236
http://www.bornrich.com/rolex-watch-...ing-82000.html

here's hoping the op gets well more than those prices.

[andromeda160]

Originally Posted by nocrown

here's hoping the op gets well more than those prices.

the one that sold for 82k had 2 circular scratch marks, I'd imagine he could get a few $$$ more

[Paul]

Firstly, best wishes to the OP. I hope it works out well for you.

I ask about case numbers cos. I got all excited about three years back when this dial and hands popped up on eBay.
I was warned off it by a couple of fellas who expressed doubts about authenticity - niggling doubts only rather than firm rejections.

So I held on to my money but have been waiting ever since to see if the dial popped up again in a watch .......

[MBYSF]

Originally Posted by mtl514

Sky is the limit!
But down here on earth this may help answer your question
https://www.picollecta.com/p/rolex-s...ord-1000515236
http://www.bornrich.com/rolex-watch-...ing-82000.html
Both articles are of same auction

God bless the op!

Amazing!

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by Paul

Firstly, best wishes to the OP. I hope it works out well for you.



I ask about case numbers cos. I got all excited about three years back when this dial and hands popped up on eBay.

I was warned off it by a couple of fellas who expressed doubts about authenticity - niggling doubts only rather than firm rejections.



So I held on to my money but have been waiting ever since to see if the dial popped up again in a watch .......

Paul, hope all is well with you. What did it sell for, if you recall?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Paul]

Originally Posted by southtexas

Paul, hope all is well with you. What did it sell for, if you recall?

Hey mate. All is great down here thanks. The dial and hands sold for around US $7,000.
Not big money at all so perhaps others were also unconvinced.

I've revisited the pics many times but simply don't have the skills to determine if it was indeed a good dial.
If it is, it may well pop up again one day as a complete watch .... hopefully not being marketed as 'all-original' with a telephone number price tag

[mtl514]

That dial is a fake Paul

[Paul]

Originally Posted by mtl514

That dial is a fake Paul

That's interesting to hear. The fellas certainly scratched their collective heads when it popped up for sale.
No definitive calls of "FAKE" at that time but enough doubt cast to put me off.

A firm call of fake now and the heavy ageing of the dial, suggests a deliberate attempt to fool rather than just another refinished dial.
Not an isolated incident either - there have certainly been carefully crafted, heavily patina'd, 3-6-9 dials outed as fakes in recent years.

On a more positive note, a fella flashed over the forums perhaps three years back who did have a small stash of NOS ultra-rare dials.
From memory, the haul included Burford 'T' dials and 3-6-9 dials, all in their waxy paper sheaths.
I think those particular dials got the thumbs up so it was nice to see that super rare NOS items are still being unearthed.

[jedly1]

Originally Posted by Paul

That's interesting to hear. The fellas certainly scratched their collective heads when it popped up for sale.
No definitive calls of "FAKE" at that time but enough doubt cast to put me off.

A firm call of fake now and the heavy ageing of the dial, suggests a deliberate attempt to fool rather than just another refinished dial.
Not an isolated incident either - there have certainly been carefully crafted, heavily patina'd, 3-6-9 dials outed as fakes in recent years.

On a more positive note, a fella flashed over the forums perhaps three years back who did have a small stash of NOS ultra-rare dials.
From memory, the haul included Burford 'T' dials and 3-6-9 dials, all in their waxy paper sheaths.
I think those particular dials got the thumbs up so it was nice to see that super rare NOS items are still being unearthed.

no there were a couple of burdord dials mixed with a big box of 6538 service dials that had had a crude circle T applied to them in the same crude style used by the MOD watchmakers are hurstmonceuax , though knowing if they applied that circle T 40 years ago or 4 month earlier would be impossible to know and seems unlikely given we have never seen watch with one fitted and nearly all of the dials were still present in the box, there was no doubt it was what appeared to be a box of legit service 6538 dials shipped to the MOD using their codes and intended possibly as replacement for the burford dials, or as replacements that could have been used to deal with the radium issue if the MOD hadn't already made its own arrangements with burford and dealt with the situation

[mtl514]

Originally Posted by Paul

That's interesting to hear. The fellas certainly scratched their collective heads when it popped up for sale.
No definitive calls of "FAKE" at that time but enough doubt cast to put me off.

A firm call of fake now and the heavy ageing of the dial, suggests a deliberate attempt to fool rather than just another refinished dial.
Not an isolated incident either - there have certainly been carefully crafted, heavily patina'd, 3-6-9 dials outed as fakes in recent years.

On a more positive note, a fella flashed over the forums perhaps three years back who did have a small stash of NOS ultra-rare dials.
From memory, the haul included Burford 'T' dials and 3-6-9 dials, all in their waxy paper sheaths.
I think those particular dials got the thumbs up so it was nice to see that super rare NOS items are still being unearthed.

Anything that rare will most certainly be faked, it seems this one was aged to look old and fool someone as you said. The dial you showed is not even a well made fake in the way it was produced. The 5512/13 explorer dial watches had gilt dials. Many different versions but all gilt none the less, and it's rather easy to see that this is a printed dial. The coronet, minute track, all text etc is just painted on. The gilt comes from the dial plate on the genuine examples, they sit in relief of the galvanized/black layer. Even if all the lacquer is somehow removed, that would all still be there, now that isn't to say that if you see a dial with proper gilt it's automatically ok because there are well made fakes like the ones that Jed linked earlier in the thread, those are made properly so other things come in to play to validate a dial once it's established that its gilt and not paint. That dial doesn't get past step 1
Here is a pic of a gilt dial where the lacquer is coming off, as you can see the gilt parts are still there because they sit in relief, if it was paint there would be no trace of it under the lacquer.

[mtl514]

Gilt in relief
Paint over lacquer
Both shown here.

[eco8gator]

Hello

Be careful having radium dials out of the case...the particles form the lume do bad things to the tissues inside your body if inhaled...

Hell if its potentially so valuable I'd fly my self to switzerland and have the home office look at it and hang out until i get the report...call it a mini vacation. They would come up with a nice cert for you and you'd be on your way to the nearest auction house to cash in a huge ticket item...

Regards

[JustinK]

Originally Posted by eco8gator

Hello

Hell if its potentially so valuable I'd fly my self to switzerland and have the home office look at it and hang out until i get the report...call it a mini vacation. They would come up with a nice cert for you and you'd be on your way to the nearest auction house to cash in a huge ticket item...

Regards

The report would read:

Service movement
Polish case
Dial damaged Replace Dial
Hands damaged Replace Hands
Insert damaged Replace Insert

All joking aside I would stick with the experts from this site and keep the watch away from Rolex.

[eco8gator]

The report would also read that the watch is a Rolex...

That is the entire point.

Oh not to mention the Rolex Letter head on the actual report.

BTW the service report is free...

So yes, I agree use the experts on this site, BUT if you can get any Rolex papers that indirectly imply that its 100% real then BAM baby....big money. Unfortunately if your auctioning this thing off saying some guy on RF said it was real doesn't fly...

Regards

[Paul]

[QUOTE=mtl514;5822758] Anything that rare will most certainly be faked, ...... .... That dial doesn't get past step 1 ......
QUOTE]


I'm thinking that three years back, the suggestion of relief (LHS photo in particular) helped to fuel my excitement.
The RHS picture probably shows things as they really are and as Adam noted (thread and PM) - remnants of artificially aged, simple gold paint on a flat dial face seems to be the reality. So I dodged a bullet while someone else is out $7000

Lots of on-going development from the dial makers around the late 50s / early 60s me-thinks.
The relief process is very evident on the late 50s gilt dials I have (6610, 6202 and 6542).
Much less evident on the gilt dials produced just five years later ( 5500, 1016 and 1675).
A few different companies sub-contracting to Rolex through those years so quite possibly a range of techniques employed.
Add to that a few failures (delaminating dials, Tudor warts etc) and safety moves (radium out ... tritium in) and we end up with a vast range of dial styles through a relatively short time-frame.

Such a good hobby - the more I learn the less I know

[mastermixer]

If you want to sell it I would think the best course of action would be to give it to one of the big auction houses such as antiquorum, sothebys, or christies. Considering you have family history on it and such.

[Boxcars]

Originally Posted by JustinK

The report would read:

Service movement
Polish case
Dial damaged Replace Dial
Hands damaged Replace Hands
Insert damaged Replace Insert

All joking aside I would stick with the experts from this site and keep the watch away from Rolex.

Just out of interest, do you have any knowledge at all of the restoration department at Rolex in Geneva? This isn't Rolex USA we are talking about. The staff in this department have access to information and resources that the 'experts' on this site could only dream about.

A watch of this value should only be handled by Rolex in Geneva and no other third party in the first instance. It'd be worth the trip for the OP from what I can see.

[themaninblack]

Originally Posted by Boxcars

Just out of interest, do you have any knowledge at all of the restoration department at Rolex in Geneva? This isn't Rolex USA we are talking about. The staff in this department have access to information and resources that the 'experts' on this site could only dream about.

A watch of this value should only be handled by Rolex in Geneva and no other third party in the first instance. It'd be worth the trip for the OP from what I can see.

"Handled" in what way. What handling does it need?