Depressing visit to the AP Boutique in BH

[bruinmd]

.......not sure about others' experience with this boutique or at other boutiques as of late, but this was very sobering.

I was home visiting family in so-cal, and so decided to visit the AP, Panerai, IWC, and Hublot boutiques on Rodeo Drive.

I was given the name of the guy to talk to at the AP boutique by one of the AD's I work with locally. He was by no means rude, but it was made fairly clear it's going to be next to impossible to score a blue dial 15400 (he told me I was too big a buy to be considering the 15450, as it's a 'ladies watch', which I found a bit funny since I'm really not at all that big, and have a not so flat 6.5" wrist).
But they literally had nothing there.......... no SS RO 41mm models-- not even any chrono's, to try on.
They did have a gold 41mm turbillion I had to ask to try on to make sure it fit, and it did, but I definitely can't go bigger than that (i.e., a RO offshore 42mm).

He basically left me with the message that he would keep me in mind if others dropped off the list as they get pieces in (blue dial 15400), but I'm not holding my breath.
He made it quite clear that a 15202 was essentially impossible, given that those will go to the high value clients who have bought hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of watches from them in the past. After the Jumbos, the 15400's will be next.

So I'm not sure what to do next.
The AD I work with can get me a 26331 chrono -- blue dial with the silver sub dials at retail, but I'm not sure how I feel about that watch. I like it from the pics, but I really had my heart set on a 15400/202.
In addition, my concern is that the 26331's don't hold their value very well, if I decide I want to sell this watch after 2-3 years, in the event I don't love it and a 15450 blue dial becomes available.

One compromise might be to get on the AD's wait list for a 15450 grey dial (they have a white and black dial in stock), and just accept that a blue dial isn't going to happen.............I don't want to pay above MSRP on the secondary market.

I had been seriously thinking about getting an IWC Portuguese classic as a daily 'dressy' chrono for work in any case, so maybe I should give more serious thought to the 26331 blue dial chrono.

To make things more complicated, I'm first up on the list for the next Daytona SS White dial that comes in.........which is frankly a watch I like, but don't necessarily love.

Thoughts/Advice?

[whiterabbit66]

All 15400's are now getting hard to find IMHO. I was also told no chance for a 15202 from an East Coast boutique. Ended up paying retail for a 15400 in sliver which I am good with as my name in on it and you get a 5 year warranty.

[GB-man]

You are very unlikely to be approved for a blue dial 15400 or 15202 on first purchase. Don’t take it personally.

I’d entertain the 15450 ruthenium. Gorgeous watch that leaves nothing on the table vs the blue dial imho.

[bruinmd]

Originally Posted by GB-man

You are very unlikely to be approved for a blue dial 15400 or 15202 on first purchase. Don’t take it personally.

I’d entertain the 15450 ruthenium. Gorgeous watch that leaves nothing on the table vs the blue dial imho.

Thanks, and I'm really not taking it personally, TBH. I get it-- this is the new reality for SS sports watches for Rolex, AP, and of course, PP.

I think I'm really liking the idea of the Ruthenium.......the pics look beautiful, and it would be great to see it person. I'll talk to the AD about that watch.

Any thoughts on the 26331? I wonder if there are any owners out there who have strong feelings one way or the other on the watch.

[whiterabbit66]

Originally Posted by GB-man

You are very unlikely to be approved for a blue dial 15400 or 15202 on first purchase. Don’t take it personally.

I’d entertain the 15450 ruthenium. Gorgeous watch that leaves nothing on the table vs the blue dial imho.

I couldn't make up my mind between ruthenium and silver at the boutique. In the end slept on it and returned and bought the silver. Ruthenium wears a bit more dressy to me and I had problems seeing the time on it. As I am normally casual I went with the silver which looks virtually white in the sun.

I agree that Ruthenium is as nice as blue. Not sure why so much love for blue as all the RO dial options are awesome IMHO.

[tyler1980]

here is 100% the issue with any brand moving to a boutique only model. You need AP purchase history and not AD (multi brand) purchase history to get a watch. Its fine i suppose if the only brand you will ever buy is AP, otherwise it is a losing proposition for anyone who likes to buy several brands of watches.

Personally for me there are too many other brands I also like to try to build a second relationship with a boutique for one or two other watches. IMO i would get the AP you can get from your AD as that is what is going to help you with daytonas etc later.

[benlee]

BH means Beverly Hills? I guess that's a locality with a lot of rich AP clients asking for watches so they have a lot of demand and hence their response to you as a first time client.

Personally, I will pick the 26331ST blue chrono as it's nicer and has more presence than the 15400s which can look rather plain in comparison. Have you tried one on irl? It's actually the AP watch that I wear the most out of all the APs. And I have seven. Resale for 26331ST won't be as good as 15400/15202 but it's still an AP SS sports and won't loss as much as say an IWC.

[bayerische]

I would get the Chrono. The 15400 dimensions are wrong IMO.

[SC11]

Swings and roundabouts!

Buying directly you are on their radar for future BO or harder to get pieces but like Tyler states this will limit your exposure to other brands (if that’s an issue with you as it appears you already have a Rolex connection)

Plus directly is retail only but then typically get perks such as factory invites, gifts etc.

But like Ben states that is one boutique I bet with some big spenders so maybe look for another boutique with w smaller customer base, have seen a few guys your side of the water go to overseas boutiques (just an option)

I prefer the 15400/26331 blue over the 15202, plus the ROC is a lovely piece and would be my pick of the three.

Value wise the ROC does drop a little but it’s clear AP have been reducing dealer margins and throttling the AD supply in preference to the boutiques so values will be doing better then in past years.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by SC11

Swings and roundabouts!

Buying directly you are on their radar for future BO or harder to get pieces but like Tyler states this will limit your exposure to other brands (if that’s an issue with you as it appears you already have a Rolex connection)

Plus directly is retail only but then typically get perks such as factory invites, gifts etc.

But like Ben states that is one boutique I bet with some big spenders so maybe look for another boutique with w smaller customer base, have seen a few guys your side of the water go to overseas boutiques (just an option)

I prefer the 15400/26331 blue over the 15202, plus the ROC is a lovely piece and would be my pick of the three.

Value wise the ROC does drop a little but it’s clear AP have been reducing dealer margins and throttling the AD supply in preference to the boutiques so values will be doing better then in past years.

yeah... watch buying today requires far more strategy and long term plans. Randomly buying a piece here and there from random places who happen to have a watch you like in stock really isnt a good idea anymore.

IMO everyone really needs to think about what they want their collection to be in 5 or 10 years and then chose the avenue that gets them to that point. For certain individuals sometimes the best choice is a boutique, and sometimes its a multi brand AD,and maybe sometimes its grey dealers but everyone needs to think about it in advance and mixing and matching makes it much more difficult than committing to one route.

[1William]

If you know the watch that you want why not contact the TS's here on TRF. Several of the big TS can source the watch. If it is over msrp, so what, if it is what you want and it may help you hang onto it. Don't settle, go get what you want.

[AK797]

The Patek-isation of AP has begun in earnest now and if blue 400s are still not at large premiums from your greys I would buy one there if that is your grail RO. In a year or so I expect premiums will be double now's or more and then not really possible. Otherwise I like the new blue or panda ROC, esp as a 41mm watch.

[SC11]

Originally Posted by AK797

The Patek-isation of AP has begun in earnest now and if blue 400s are still not at large premiums from your greys I would buy one there if that is your grail RO. In a year or so I expect premiums will be double now's or more and then not really possible. Otherwise I like the new blue or panda ROC, esp as a 41mm watch.

Have to agree they are creeping up, had to get market values over to my insurer for the 15407st back in March when I picked it up grey were low £50k now most are high £50k to just over £60k, one UK grey has his up for £63k.

Models like the 15202, Ce44, 15400 (blue) when checking into were around 3-6month wait now you are looking a year plus, also take into consideration how quite a few models which are not boutique exclusives are not even making it to the AD’s!

[Jimmy3993]

If it were me (and of course, it isn’t) I’d be thinking about selling the Daytona that I can get but don’t want and using the $ to get the AP that I want but can’t get on the preowned market.


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[benlee]

I wonder if this is going to back fired on the brands on the long term. Watch buying is now more and more becoming like a club. If you are in, you are in otherwise good luck, orwork your way in.

First time potential buyers of AP/PP and Rolex wishing to buy a popular model are being rejected, turned away and sometimes ridiculed and basically being turn off. 10 or 20 years later when this new generation of buyers have more disposable income to spend, will they remember this bad experience?

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by AK797

The Patek-isation of AP has begun in earnest now and if blue 400s are still not at large premiums from your greys I would buy one there if that is your grail RO. In a year or so I expect premiums will be double now's or more and then not really possible. Otherwise I like the new blue or panda ROC, esp as a 41mm watch.

the big difference to me is Patek does not have boutique only pieces(or Salon only for PP) so you can still get them from your AD. Of course both are restricting supply though.

Honestly i would rather have more of a PP application piece process they use for their high end stuff for their populars too. AP as well, but i dont think anything is stopping them from consolidating their dealer network which to me is the biggest disappointment and not necessarily any supply restrictions.

[iceman1118]

Originally Posted by benlee

I wonder if this is going to back fired on the brands on the long term. Watch buying is now more and more becoming like a club. If you are in, you are in otherwise good luck, orwork your way in.

First time potential buyers of AP/PP and Rolex wishing to buy a popular model are being rejected, turned away and sometimes ridiculed and basically being turn off. 10 or 20 years later when this new generation of buyers have more disposable income to spend, will they remember this bad experience?

I couldnt agree more. To a point I think these guys are backwards in their thinking. The 15400, 15202, 5711, 5167, etc are essentially entry level pieces to higher end horology. AP and PP should be pushing these pieces to younger and first time buyers into the brand to raise interest and begin a relationship with new customers to eventually gain their interest into the higher end pieces, like complications and precious metals. Just my two cents.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by iceman1118

I couldnt agree more. To a point I think these guys are backwards in their thinking. The 15400, 15202, 5711, 5167, etc are essentially entry level pieces to higher end horology. AP and PP should be pushing these pieces to younger and first time buyers into the brand to raise interest and begin a relationship with new customers to eventually gain their interest into the higher end pieces, like complications and precious metals. Just my two cents.

Yes they are copying the Daytona model except the Daytona is not entry level for Rolex so it’s a horrible model for them, even if it is creating some hype. Patek anyways, not so much AP as there are other models readily available like the diver etc.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Yes they are copying the Daytona model except the Daytona is not entry level for Rolex so it’s a horrible model for them, even if it is creating some hype. Patek anyways, not so much AP as there are other models readily available like the diver etc.

the 15400 15450 15202 reminds me of Panerai actually. They make slight changes, like add or remove a numeral or put a different movement in and make that one more expensive and hard to get. Base model to the higher up models are sometimes almost the same watch but are vastly different in availability.

My AD has had a SS ROC for 3 months now and cant move it. No SS 15400's though. Thats odd to me as the ROC is just as nice but wears a bit bigger which may be a negative.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

the 15400 15450 15202 reminds me of Panerai actually. They make slight changes, like add or remove a numeral or put a different movement in and make that one more expensive and hard to get. Base model to the higher up models are sometimes almost the same watch but are vastly different in availability.

My AD has had a SS ROC for 3 months now and cant move it. No SS 15400's though. Thats odd to me as the ROC is just as nice but wears a bit bigger which may be a negative.

My guess is that average joe could not care less about the chronograph and doesn’t like the higher price. He’s probably jumping from a Rolex and double the cost is enough let alone triple. Either that or AP producing less 15400 than ROC.

Also I think sporty watch buyers are spoiled for choice with the ROO line so the ROC is sort of left in the middle ground.

[Chute]

I’d get the white Daytona,don’t wear it, and trade it with a trusted seller towards the blue 15400.
I have the black 15400 and love it, although I wear my white 116500 just as much.
If I could only keep one of the two,it would be the AP

[kevblah]

Is that really the sentiment about the 26331, that it doesn't hold it's value?

I bought my blue dial 26331 from AP at retail because I thought the blue dial would hold it's value the most. I see DavidSW selling them at just $400 under retail, versus the white and black dials which sell for 2-3k under retail.

Anyhow, I bought my 26331 blue dial from AP and then a week later a 15400 ruthenium dial for my wife from the same salesperson. From what I hear the 15400 ruthenium dial is very hard to find, but I didn't have a hard time getting it?

[AK797]

Originally Posted by benlee

I wonder if this is going to back fired on the brands on the long term. Watch buying is now more and more becoming like a club. If you are in, you are in otherwise good luck, orwork your way in.

First time potential buyers of AP/PP and Rolex wishing to buy a popular model are being rejected, turned away and sometimes ridiculed and basically being turn off. 10 or 20 years later when this new generation of buyers have more disposable income to spend, will they remember this bad experience?

They absolutely should be treated with respect when being rejected or told the waits are long, and if so I think the new Holy Trinity of Rolex, AP and PP, much like we have held on this forum but now the world too has caught up with us, are going to be brand strong enough to endure an uncertain future. But many of the others will really struggle.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by GB-man

My guess is that average joe could not care less about the chronograph and doesn’t like the higher price. He’s probably jumping from a Rolex and double the cost is enough let alone triple. Either that or AP producing less 15400 than ROC.

Also I think sporty watch buyers are spoiled for choice with the ROO line so the ROC is sort of left in the middle ground.

Yes, I think price and the chrono are the issues, price mostly ofc today, which is a shame as the chronos fit the 41mm size better and the new colour combos are great, better than before, plus the 42s don't have the CEs yet and that all seems to be a bit of a debacle now.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by kevblah

Is that really the sentiment about the 26331, that it doesn't hold it's value?

I bought my blue dial 26331 from AP at retail because I thought the blue dial would hold it's value the most. I see DavidSW selling them at just $400 under retail, versus the white and black dials which sell for 2-3k under retail.

Anyhow, I bought my 26331 blue dial from AP and then a week later a 15400 ruthenium dial for my wife from the same salesperson. From what I hear the 15400 ruthenium dial is very hard to find, but I didn't have a hard time getting it?

Not as well as the 400 or 202, which are risers now, but it will hold far better than previous chronos, and other brand chronos so don't worry.

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by benlee

I wonder if this is going to back fired on the brands on the long term. Watch buying is now more and more becoming like a club. If you are in, you are in otherwise good luck, orwork your way in.

First time potential buyers of AP/PP and Rolex wishing to buy a popular model are being rejected, turned away and sometimes ridiculed and basically being turn off. 10 or 20 years later when this new generation of buyers have more disposable income to spend, will they remember this bad experience?

Ben I can say that certainly in the case of the London AP office this couldn’t be further from the truth. I recently introduced one of my oldest friends to them, he wanted 4 watches which are all in demand and they have gone above and beyond to fulfill his order. The relationship hasn’t ended there and with the way he’s been treated he’ll be a customer for life.


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[climblaw25]

Get the IWC! It’s a beauty!!


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[SC11]

Originally Posted by AshAP

Ben I can say that certainly in the case of the London AP office this couldn’t be further from the truth. I recently introduced one of my oldest friends to them, he wanted 4 watches which are all in demand and they have gone above and beyond to fulfill his order. The relationship hasn’t ended there and with the way he’s been treated he’ll be a customer for life.

Second this! I’ve had nothing but first class treatment from AP UK.

[benlee]

Originally Posted by AK797

They absolutely should be treated with respect when being rejected or told the waits are long, and if so I think the new Holy Trinity of Rolex, AP and PP, much like we have held on this forum but now the world too has caught up with us, are going to be brand strong enough to endure an uncertain future. But many of the others will really struggle.

I think what's best is for the brands to have a certain ref that is both desirable as well as attainable for a first time buyer with a reasonable waiting time ( eg 6 mths waitlist ) so as to entice new 1st time buyers without alienating the whole lot of them. As of now, every single desirable ref has huge waitlist and demand is artificially inflated with limited supply, thus discouraging new 1st time customers. This can't be good for the brand on the long term.

Originally Posted by AshAP

Ben I can say that certainly in the case of the London AP office this couldn’t be further from the truth. I recently introduced one of my oldest friends to them, he wanted 4 watches which are all in demand and they have gone above and beyond to fulfill his order. The relationship hasn’t ended there and with the way he’s been treated he’ll be a customer for life.


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Does he have a buying history with AP London? If not, then what AP UK is doing is actually contrary to the overall direction of AP Corporate and fundamentally unfair, ie, a new customer can get access to hard to get pieces in UK while other customers that buy more in other regions are denied the opportunity. Exception will be he is a celeb ( thus bringing publicity / exposure to AP ), or like some case, the buyer showed a lot of "passion". Anyway, I doubt this can continue for very long.

[SC11]

Originally Posted by benlee

Does he have a buying history with AP London? If not, then what AP UK is doing is actually contrary to the overall direction of AP Corporate and fundamentally unfair, ie, a new customer can get access to hard to get pieces in UK while other customers that buy more in other regions are denied the opportunity. Exception will be he is a celeb ( thus bringing publicity / exposure to AP ), or like some case, the buyer showed a lot of "passion". Anyway, I doubt this can continue for very long.

No prior history with AP but to be clear and clarify what Ash is referring to these are not BO or long waitlist pieces as such just popular pieces and getting four at the same time or within a week or so of each other!

Regardless of this we know waitlist are dynamic and this guy went from zero AP’s to four overnight so why not reward him with fulfilling his order.

Anyways moving forward you can’t really compare AP UK vs AP US or Sin as the markets and customer base are totally different to give you an idea last year the wait time on the 15202 was a few months and the 15407st was a year, that was nothing to do with bypassing over buyers it was just how the demand was, remember the AP UK boutique was a little of an unknown for a while.

I can tell you now these waits times have at least doubled even tripled on the 15407st due to recent exposure so maybe it wasn’t my passion after all and just my celeb status