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Old 18 June 2018, 07:47 AM   #31
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I think what's best is for the brands to have a certain ref that is both desirable as well as attainable for a first time buyer with a reasonable waiting time ( eg 6 mths waitlist ) so as to entice new 1st time buyers without alienating the whole lot of them. As of now, every single desirable ref has huge waitlist and demand is artificially inflated with limited supply, thus discouraging new 1st time customers. This can't be good for the brand on the long term.



Does he have a buying history with AP London? If not, then what AP UK is doing is actually contrary to the overall direction of AP Corporate and fundamentally unfair, ie, a new customer can get access to hard to get pieces in UK while other customers that buy more in other regions are denied the opportunity. Exception will be he is a celeb ( thus bringing publicity / exposure to AP ), or like some case, the buyer showed a lot of "passion". Anyway, I doubt this can continue for very long.
I agree that up to 6 months is ideal, but this thing is fluid and if AP are successful in making the brand seem more exclusive and desirable then demand will shoot up and wait lists will organically become longer, such as we've seen on the other brands. The difference with Rolex is that these AP customers will be generally wealthier and will demand better service so the salesman's treatment has to always be of a high class nature to keep them interested in the brand.

So far as the guys have said I find AP to be nothing but professional and courteous so I don't envisage this being a problem, unlike the Rolex ADs which have too many unprofessional day-jobbers working there.
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Old 18 June 2018, 07:54 AM   #32
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I can tell you now these waits times have at least doubled even tripled on the 15407st due to recent exposure so maybe it wasn’t my passion after all and just my celeb status
I need to get your autograph. Might have more resale value than AP.
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Old 18 June 2018, 07:55 AM   #33
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I agree that up to 6 months is ideal, but this thing is fluid and if AP are successful in making the brand seem more exclusive and desirable then demand will shoot up and wait lists will organically become longer, such as we've seen on the other brands. The difference with Rolex is that these AP customers will be generally wealthier and will demand better service so the salesman's treatment has to always be of a high class nature to keep them interested in the brand.

So far as the guys have said I find AP to be nothing but professional and courteous so I don't envisage this being a problem, unlike the Rolex ADs which have too many unprofessional day-jobbers working there.
Agree Rolex ADs are playing a lot more games than AP and PP, as evidence by the feedback in TRF.

My point is each brand need to have a popular piece that is practically attainable, not what we heard about 3 years, 5 years or even 10 years waitlist. Telling this to first time customer for each and every popular piece simply turn them off the brand, with potential long term consequences. Waitlist can always be adjusted with supply and I am sure if they want, they have no problem actually to meet the demand.
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Old 18 June 2018, 08:25 AM   #34
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Beverly Hills boutique is awful. They put me on the list for a boutique only watch (otherwise would have gotten from my AD), took a $20k deposit and confirmed I was #1 on their list in writing. I wait 4 months before inquiring and they go dark. Finally after 2 more months they say “sorry, you are not on our list anymore as you need to have bought a tourbillon to get this watch”. I tell them “ok, I’m reasonable, can you get me X, Y, or Z watch instead to make this right?” And their answer was an instant “no”. Not even a “let me talk to my manager and figure something out”. Just an FU.

I’ve had another AD pull the same with a Daytona and am just eliminating them off my list. It makes no business sense for them: I’m a young guy with a lot of watch-buying years ahead of me, a high disposable income, and a history of spending 6 figures on watches. You’d think ADs would want me as a customer. Guess not. I literally cannot find an AD who wants my money and relationship.
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Old 18 June 2018, 11:40 AM   #35
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I think what's best is for the brands to have a certain ref that is both desirable as well as attainable for a first time buyer with a reasonable waiting time ( eg 6 mths waitlist ) so as to entice new 1st time buyers without alienating the whole lot of them. As of now, every single desirable ref has huge waitlist and demand is artificially inflated with limited supply, thus discouraging new 1st time customers. This can't be good for the brand on the long term.







Does he have a buying history with AP London? If not, then what AP UK is doing is actually contrary to the overall direction of AP Corporate and fundamentally unfair, ie, a new customer can get access to hard to get pieces in UK while other customers that buy more in other regions are denied the opportunity. Exception will be he is a celeb ( thus bringing publicity / exposure to AP ), or like some case, the buyer showed a lot of "passion". Anyway, I doubt this can continue for very long.


Ben I’ve always been very courteous to you online but I feel recently all you do is talk down on AP. To be honest, after reading your comments, right now if you were my client too I’d make you wait a bit longer just for sport, you can’t talk down on a brand online and then expect the best service. It must be a very small world because even I’ve heard that you threw your toys out over not receiving the openworks when you wanted it. You don’t know anything about my friend so I wouldn’t continue down that road.


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Old 18 June 2018, 11:49 AM   #36
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I couldn't make up my mind between ruthenium and silver at the boutique. In the end slept on it and returned and bought the silver. Ruthenium wears a bit more dressy to me and I had problems seeing the time on it. As I am normally casual I went with the silver which looks virtually white in the sun.

I agree that Ruthenium is as nice as blue. Not sure why so much love for blue as all the RO dial options are awesome IMHO.
Because some of us (me) are blue dial whores.....lol.
It's the ONLY AP thought was a 'must have'.

Good feedback on the ruthenium........ if the dial isn't easy to read, it may make it a no go, and I'll have to give silver serious consideration.
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Old 18 June 2018, 11:53 AM   #37
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BH means Beverly Hills? I guess that's a locality with a lot of rich AP clients asking for watches so they have a lot of demand and hence their response to you as a first time client.

Personally, I will pick the 26331ST blue chrono as it's nicer and has more presence than the 15400s which can look rather plain in comparison. Have you tried one on irl? It's actually the AP watch that I wear the most out of all the APs. And I have seven. Resale for 26331ST won't be as good as 15400/15202 but it's still an AP SS sports and won't loss as much as say an IWC.
Yes, Beverly Hills.

No, I haven't had the chance to try one on, but I can get either the 15400 silver dial for sure (not sure about the new Ruthenium), and I can also get the 26331 blue dial.

The latter may fill the trifecta of getting an AP, a chrono that can be dressed up if needed, and a blue dial.
If I go silver or Ruthenium 15400, then I would either do the IWC Portuguese classic or the Daytona, when the latter finally becomes available.
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Old 18 June 2018, 11:55 AM   #38
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Yes, Beverly Hills.

No, I haven't had the chance to try one on, but I can get either the 15400 silver dial for sure (not sure about the new Ruthenium), and I can also get the 26331 blue dial.

The latter may fill the trifecta of getting an AP, a chrono that can be dressed up if needed, and a blue dial.
If I go silver or Ruthenium 15400, then I would either do the IWC Portuguese classic or the Daytona, when the latter finally becomes available.
Silver>chrono :)
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Old 18 June 2018, 11:57 AM   #39
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Swings and roundabouts!

Buying directly you are on their radar for future BO or harder to get pieces but like Tyler states this will limit your exposure to other brands (if that’s an issue with you as it appears you already have a Rolex connection)

Plus directly is retail only but then typically get perks such as factory invites, gifts etc.

But like Ben states that is one boutique I bet with some big spenders so maybe look for another boutique with w smaller customer base, have seen a few guys your side of the water go to overseas boutiques (just an option)

I prefer the 15400/26331 blue over the 15202, plus the ROC is a lovely piece and would be my pick of the three.

Value wise the ROC does drop a little but it’s clear AP have been reducing dealer margins and throttling the AD supply in preference to the boutiques so values will be doing better then in past years.
Good advice and good points. I don't have time to go overseas to a boutique.
And los angeles/beverly hills might be the toughest of all the boutiques to gain traction with because of the especially high demand for AP there, coupled with spending power of the clients.

I definitely need to see the ROC in person. I know the service costs for it will be higher than for the 15400, but that's not a deal breaker.

Any differences in reliability and/or accuracy between the 2 movements in the 15400 and the 26331?

And I agree about resale changing (holding more steady) in the coming years for the 26331, given that even that model is going to get more difficult to obtain.
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Old 18 June 2018, 12:01 PM   #40
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I would get the Chrono. The 15400 dimensions are wrong IMO.
Why do you say the dimensions are wrong on the 15400?

I was told the lug to lug width on the 15400 is the same as the 26331.
I did find the 15400 gold turbillon I tried on to be a bit unusual for a 41mm (hard to articulate), and I've been told the 26331 wears a bit more true to size......as opposed to the 15400, which wears rather large for a 41mm. Is that what you mean?
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Old 18 June 2018, 12:05 PM   #41
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If it were me (and of course, it isn’t) I’d be thinking about selling the Daytona that I can get but don’t want and using the $ to get the AP that I want but can’t get on the preowned market.


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That's exactly what I'm thinking.

The relationship I'm building with the AD for AP's/IWC/Panerai is separate from the more other, more local AD with whom I already have a good relationship with Rolex (and they carry Patek as well). If I did get the Daytona in the next few months, it would likely go in a safe, only to be sold in about a year or so, as I don't want to burn bridges by flipping it immediately.....Unless of course, I fall in love with the SS Daytona once I see it
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Old 18 June 2018, 12:11 PM   #42
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Yes, I think price and the chrono are the issues, price mostly ofc today, which is a shame as the chronos fit the 41mm size better and the new colour combos are great, better than before, plus the 42s don't have the CEs yet and that all seems to be a bit of a debacle now.
When you say the chronos fit the size better, do they wear bigger than the 15400?

If so, that could be a deal breaker for me.
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Old 18 June 2018, 12:17 PM   #43
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Beverly Hills boutique is awful. They put me on the list for a boutique only watch (otherwise would have gotten from my AD), took a $20k deposit and confirmed I was #1 on their list in writing. I wait 4 months before inquiring and they go dark. Finally after 2 more months they say “sorry, you are not on our list anymore as you need to have bought a tourbillon to get this watch”. I tell them “ok, I’m reasonable, can you get me X, Y, or Z watch instead to make this right?” And their answer was an instant “no”. Not even a “let me talk to my manager and figure something out”. Just an FU.

I’ve had another AD pull the same with a Daytona and am just eliminating them off my list. It makes no business sense for them: I’m a young guy with a lot of watch-buying years ahead of me, a high disposable income, and a history of spending 6 figures on watches. You’d think ADs would want me as a customer. Guess not. I literally cannot find an AD who wants my money and relationship.
thanks for the feedback. Since I posted yesterday, I've had a couple of others share your sentiments-- which echoed my feeling while being there-- about the BH boutique.

I won't be holding my breath or doing business with them moving forward. As others have wisely advised on this thread, I'll work with my regional AD on getting either the 15400 silver or ruthenium dial or the 26331 blue dial, and maybe in time flip the Daytona for a 15202/15400 blue dial with a TS.
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Old 18 June 2018, 12:25 PM   #44
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I would just get the ROC from your current AD...who you have a relationship, who is getting you the daytona and build on that relationship. Spending $$$$ at the boutique in BH makes no sense....they probably dont evenc are...as they have many more big bigger spenders to cater too. stick to your AD.
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Old 18 June 2018, 02:35 PM   #45
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Ben I’ve always been very courteous to you online but I feel recently all you do is talk down on AP. To be honest, after reading your comments, right now if you were my client too I’d make you wait a bit longer just for sport, you can’t talk down on a brand online and then expect the best service. It must be a very small world because even I’ve heard that you threw your toys out over not receiving the openworks when you wanted it. You don’t know anything about my friend so I wouldn’t continue down that road.


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Not very sure what you are so upset about. This is a forum for discussion about AP and everyone is free to give their opinion, both positive and negative. I won't own so many APs ( and still do ) if I hate the brand but AP is not perfect and have many areas they can improve on. Particular this year I have many issues with them, from the silly coloured divers to the lack of in-house chrono movement to recycling the same watch design and just changing dial colors. And FYI, it's not what you think, I not only criticise the brand online, I actually pointed out to them directly when I meet them as well and they received my feedback with interest.
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Old 18 June 2018, 02:40 PM   #46
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Beverly Hills boutique is awful. They put me on the list for a boutique only watch (otherwise would have gotten from my AD), took a $20k deposit and confirmed I was #1 on their list in writing. I wait 4 months before inquiring and they go dark. Finally after 2 more months they say “sorry, you are not on our list anymore as you need to have bought a tourbillon to get this watch”. I tell them “ok, I’m reasonable, can you get me X, Y, or Z watch instead to make this right?” And their answer was an instant “no”. Not even a “let me talk to my manager and figure something out”. Just an FU.

I’ve had another AD pull the same with a Daytona and am just eliminating them off my list. It makes no business sense for them: I’m a young guy with a lot of watch-buying years ahead of me, a high disposable income, and a history of spending 6 figures on watches. You’d think ADs would want me as a customer. Guess not. I literally cannot find an AD who wants my money and relationship.
Wow... This is truely awful. I would have sent a strong email to AP corporate to complain if I will you, and see how they respond.
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Old 18 June 2018, 07:23 PM   #47
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Beverly Hills boutique is awful. They put me on the list for a boutique only watch (otherwise would have gotten from my AD), took a $20k deposit and confirmed I was #1 on their list in writing. I wait 4 months before inquiring and they go dark. Finally after 2 more months they say “sorry, you are not on our list anymore as you need to have bought a tourbillon to get this watch”. I tell them “ok, I’m reasonable, can you get me X, Y, or Z watch instead to make this right?” And their answer was an instant “no”. Not even a “let me talk to my manager and figure something out”. Just an FU.

I’ve had another AD pull the same with a Daytona and am just eliminating them off my list. It makes no business sense for them: I’m a young guy with a lot of watch-buying years ahead of me, a high disposable income, and a history of spending 6 figures on watches. You’d think ADs would want me as a customer. Guess not. I literally cannot find an AD who wants my money and relationship.
The Beverly Hills boutique was truly the worst AP boutique I have been to. I didn't like the snotty attitude the salesguy had (prob same salesguy as OP) so I walked out and bought my RO a few days later at another AD with discount. There's something about 90210 where they think the the more attitude they have the more customers like shopping there to feel exclusivity, but that sht doesn't fly with me.
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Old 18 June 2018, 07:30 PM   #48
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thanks for the feedback. Since I posted yesterday, I've had a couple of others share your sentiments-- which echoed my feeling while being there-- about the BH boutique.

I won't be holding my breath or doing business with them moving forward. As others have wisely advised on this thread, I'll work with my regional AD on getting either the 15400 silver or ruthenium dial or the 26331 blue dial, and maybe in time flip the Daytona for a 15202/15400 blue dial with a TS.
Do yourself a favor and don't deal with that boutique, you have other options and you know who they are. I'll never step foot there again, actually on second thought I might walk in one day and show that salesperson my ruthenium that I bought from somewhere else.
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Old 18 June 2018, 08:35 PM   #49
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When you say the chronos fit the size better, do they wear bigger than the 15400?

If so, that could be a deal breaker for me.
No, rather the opposite, there is a lot dial real estate on the 41mm and the subdials fill up the dial better and make it wear smaller for me.
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Old 18 June 2018, 08:37 PM   #50
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BH boutique sounds like London Rolex ADs, if you have too much over-demand, manners and courtesy go out of the window, luxury watch brands don't approve of these human flaws and so need to be complained to and name names.
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Old 18 June 2018, 11:50 PM   #51
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Do yourself a favor and don't deal with that boutique, you have other options and you know who they are. I'll never step foot there again, actually on second thought I might walk in one day and show that salesperson my ruthenium that I bought from somewhere else.
Yeah, I was trying to be restrained in my description of my experience there, but I would agree with you completely with respect to their attitude and the general vibe of that place.
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Old 18 June 2018, 11:54 PM   #52
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BH boutique sounds like London Rolex ADs, if you have too much over-demand, manners and courtesy go out of the window, luxury watch brands don't approve of these human flaws and so need to be complained to and name names.
in general yes i agree, if they dont know you. And not knowing you isnt really an excuse either.

In any case im doing the AD circuit either Friday or this weekend to "try on watches" with my Pepsi
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Old 19 June 2018, 12:08 AM   #53
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No, rather the opposite, there is a lot dial real estate on the 41mm and the subdials fill up the dial better and make it wear smaller for me.
That's really interesting. So while the ROC is thicker, it sounds like it will wear smaller in terms of total circumference/diameter.

I definitely need to try it on and see how it fits relative to the 15400
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Old 19 June 2018, 03:31 AM   #54
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The reason why all this nasty business is going on with luxury brands like AP is because they are just giving us what we want.


Luxury good buyers WANT limited availability. AP is simply providing that in an expert fashion.

Good job AP, the plan is working perfectly.
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Old 19 June 2018, 03:41 AM   #55
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haha, I have had that exact same experience in that same boutique. Different salesperson though. Not rude, but a bit cold and I clearly got the message they had more important customers to sell watches too.

It's ok, I was still able to source a blue dial 15400 from TRF!
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Old 19 June 2018, 03:56 AM   #56
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Seems like a fair amount of us have had similar experiences with The BH boutique. My experience was pretty much the same too.
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Old 19 June 2018, 04:29 AM   #57
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I ordered my 15450 over the phone from the BH boutique and so far it’s been a great experience. During my first call I did feel like they were kinda rushing me to decide whether or not I was going to make the purchase (which like others said I assume it’s because of the location they actually have a good amount of potential clients at any time), but they were never rude or disrespectful or anything like that, just made it clear that if I was interested it should happen fast or I wouldn’t be able to get it in the timeframe I was asking for. And the person I’ve been talking with has been great. Always helpful with all my questions and courteous. Sad to hear of so many bad experiences from the same place…
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Old 19 June 2018, 04:39 AM   #58
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Strange times indeed. I purchased my 15400 blue dial late last year, it's amazing how much the market has changed in so little time.
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Old 19 June 2018, 07:55 AM   #59
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Just saw this post. Op, please read my private message.
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Old 19 June 2018, 10:15 PM   #60
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Strange times indeed. I purchased my 15400 blue dial late last year, it's amazing how much the market has changed in so little time.
Good timing, look at the grey prices to comfort you as you watch Brazil struggle in the WC . We English don't have to tho, doing well for once!
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