Oliver and Clarke retailer check

[scottb23]

I’ve searched a few threads but wanted to post and get the forums latest expert views on Oliver and Clarke. I’ll admit I’ve never seen such a collection online of grail pieces that seem to roll in by the day (+ more curiously only for sale over IG “dm” only) and I guess I’m just wondering if the community views these pieces as generally legit, correct and as advertised.

I am not a vintage expert at all and a bit gun shy after my one vintage purchase from another decently known dealer (a 1675 radial) that was claimed to be totally legit/all original turned out to have badly relumed hands and some other issues that have spooked me.

Really appreciate the thoughts.

[Will866]

No experience with them but they were recently featured in a NYT article. Great looking stuff on their site.

[Dan S]

This thread may be of interest: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=889575

[Incroyable12]

A lot of these watches seem to be sourced from Japan and Taiwan.

[dhknola]

I would avoid Linden and O&C in general. He does not accurately describe his vintage watches in my opinion and he avoids questions by experts. See the link above and avoid.

[scottb23]

Thank you all I do appreciate it. Definitely need to thoroughly research my new purchase and this forum js a great resource.

[PVR]

I have recently heard about this company and have been asked about them twice over the last week alone. I want to preface that I have no experience dealing with them at all, I have never bought or sold to them. I have heard from a couple of dealers that have had bad experiences with them and a couple of customers who have also expressed that the owner Linden greatly misrepresents his watches. All dealers sugar coat their watches flaws, but this guy goes above and beyond with omitting major issues and not disclosing a lot.

The NYT article was a fluff piece pushed by a PR agent. I put no weight in those types of articles. Try and get some real world feedback from customers. From the content of the article, they do over 10m a year in sales so it shouldn't be hard to find a couple of reviews from actual customers :)

[Laserflorida]

I bought a 1680 from him last year. As described. Zero issues. I would buy from him again.

[hutch300]

I would not be a customer personally. Too many good dealers to gamble with suspect ones in my opinion.

[gmtmister]

I reached out to them twice for two pieces they were selling as unpolished. When confronted about them being polished in reality (it was obvious) he shrugged it off saying it was only polished once and that “they did it right”. Never updated any of the descriptions.
Avoid like the plague.

[dhknola]

"Greatly misrepresents watches" is the most accurate representation of this dealer.

[jgottsman11]

Originally Posted by gmtmister

I reached out to them twice for two pieces they were selling as unpolished. When confronted about them being polished in reality (it was obvious) he shrugged it off saying it was only polished once and that “they did it right”. Never updated any of the descriptions.
Avoid like the plague.

There are plenty of watches on his site that appear to be polished that are noted as unpolished

[TheBrimic]

Originally Posted by gmtmister

I reached out to them twice for two pieces they were selling as unpolished. When confronted about them being polished in reality (it was obvious) he shrugged it off saying it was only polished once and that “they did it right”. Never updated any of the descriptions.
Avoid like the plague.

I visited them in person and this was the case. Almost every watch was clearly refinished and was either advertised as "NOS" or unpolished.

[illiguy]

The irony is that O&C was featured on a podcast recently where he touted transparency in the marketplace. Something is amiss here.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by TheBrimic

I visited them in person and this was the case. Almost every watch was clearly refinished and was either advertised as "NOS" or unpolished.

In their defense, they're not alone in the dealer world describing watches better than they actually are, whether it's "unpolished," "excellent," "tropical" when damaged or failing to mention service/replacement parts. And this includes many dealers that are generally very well regarded and often mentioned on the forum.

Awhile back, I spent about 15 minutes on the phone with Linden about a watch I was considering. He was professional, friendly and seemingly very open about the watch. Texted me additional info and photos, and answered numerous follow-up questions. I didn't buy, and based on some forum chatter, I probably wouldn't. Still, I'm not sure O&C is any worse/better than a lot of dealers out there.

[btinl]

O&C is just another dealer in the network that trades vintages watches back and forth. Never trust “unpolished.” The refinishers have gotten very good and even add artificial wear marks.

[hutch300]

I think there are enough good dealers we don't have to fuss with guys like him. Sadly, there are people that will fall into his trap. This isn't to say there is a problem with everything he sells but for me I have enough examples where I just would not enjoy what I buy even if I believed it was right or a decent deal.

[Incroyable12]

I've examined vintage and antique watches at top London dealers and many of them have been refinished.

[rootbeer7]

The obsession with polished/not polished is partly the cause. Polishing a watch isn’t a problem unless done badly or too many times. If the market wasn’t so hung up on this aspect of vintage pieces it would be a non-event.

[gmtmister]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

The obsession with polished/not polished is partly the cause. Polishing a watch isn’t a problem unless done badly or too many times. If the market wasn’t so hung up on this aspect of vintage pieces it would be a non-event.

The “obsession” has nothing to do with honesty. If it says unpolished, it should be unpolished, which as far as this retailer goes is almost never the case.

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

The obsession with polished/not polished is partly the cause. Polishing a watch isn’t a problem unless done badly or too many times. If the market wasn’t so hung up on this aspect of vintage pieces it would be a non-event.

Agree 100% - bit same with B/Papers as 25-45% premium means all manner of cobbled together todd ensues.

[hutch300]

The cobbled together full sets kill me. Things that never even came with some models.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by TuRo

Agree 100% - bit same with B/Papers as 25-45% premium means all manner of cobbled together todd ensues.

Well, you can’t “cobble” together a watch’s original Rolex guarantee paper, of course. And that does indeed add a lot of value to a vintage piece, and quite right, IMHO.

The boxes and accessories, as long as they’re period-correct for the watch, don’t bother me if added later. I don’t see how it’s any different than installing a different but correct insert in a 1675 or adding a correctly dated rivet bracelet to a 5513. Guys do it all the time.

Also, keep in mind it was just an AD who assembled the boxes, manuals and accessories, not Rolex itself. That’s why there’s sometimes inconsistency with full sets of same eras.

[springer]

Originally Posted by swish77

Well, you can’t “cobble” together a watch’s original Rolex guarantee paper, of course. And that does indeed add a lot of value to a vintage piece, and quite right, IMHO.

The boxes and accessories, as long as they’re period-correct for the watch, don’t bother me if added later. I don’t see how it’s any different than installing a different but correct insert in a 1675 or adding a correctly dated rivet bracelet to a 5513. Guys do it all the time.

Also, keep in mind it was just an AD who assembled the boxes, manuals and accessories, not Rolex itself. That’s why there’s sometimes inconsistency with full sets of same eras.

I would agree with Aaron! Of course almost anything can be faked, but, I very rarely see fake warranty papers with a set. What is more common is a fake case stamped to match a genuine warranty paper.

As far as sets go, I love a nice set but cobbled together sets are mostly disappointing and sometimes makes me chuckle. Kind of makes me want to shout out "nice try fella."

[indianmachine]

Originally Posted by gmtmister

The “obsession” has nothing to do with honesty. If it says unpolished, it should be unpolished, which as far as this retailer goes is almost never the case.

Would agree with this, even if it's not the current industry norm.

[MoosicPa]

I was interested in a Rolex 4467 he had on his site, but the dial looked immaculate for an almost 80 year old watch. When I asked if it was refinished he denied and stated it was all original. I passed, didn’t sound right to me.

[klchow]

Corresponded a few times with Linden on IG. Short unhelpful responses and unwillingness to show more detailed pics or answer questions. As others have said, gives the impression he can’t really be bothered.

Failed my smell test so I’ve generally stayed away. Good call judging by some of the accounts here.

[dhknola]

A v o i d

[jgottsman11]

again, too many watches that look to have been touched by a polishing wheel that are advertised as razor sharp unpolished

[PVR]

Linden is a douche of the highest order. My only interaction with him he displayed arrogance and ignorance reserved for people twice his age. At 21 to act like this big of a douche, I can't imagine he will be in the business for long. He has burned SO MANY bridges that it's hard to buy/sell/trade when half of the dealers and retail customers hate you.

On a side note, I do business with a common dealer who says he loves doing business with Linden, so I suppose he isn't a douche to everyone, just most :)

He has/had a fake Stella for sale on his site that he KNEW was fake, but still pushed it to try and recover some losses, which to me is an avoid at all costs dealer..