All blue GMT fake

[Watchcollectables]

Originally Posted by 964RS

The thing is Jed they know you very well and the rare pieces you have so were probably being prudent wanting to check thoroughly anyway - there's been a number of mistakes where they haven't at RSCs so Geneva seem to be very cautious these days.

Did you not ask them when you took the blue one in IF they ever made other blue ones, rather than presuming that's why they checked it? Is it possible to check with the same people now who confirmed it was fake if there are others that are not and when/where/how they were made? You have good connections to ask....

I would guess Rolex wanted to check over the whole watch , after all they would look silly letting a vintage piece go out with a thumbs up if it has an aftermarket dial on it . So they like to take their time in appraising things .
If they indeed took several weeks to determine a bezel insert it does then raise questions .The main appraiser might of been on holiday ! If not , who was/were the appraiser/s ? Have they previously identified any of these inserts as genuine as obviously to determine what is fake you must have experience of what is genuine. Can they confirm or deny their existence . It surely must be possible to obtain a definitive answer on this and I cant undertsand why it hasnt already been done .
There is a chance Rolex are embarrassed as some genuine inserts possibly escaped through a back door from a research /Dev department and they are keeping their mouths and channels firmly closed as aftermarket producers got wind and set the wheels in motion...
All thought for more debate!

[77T]

Horology and Theology share some common celestial cerebration.

Deeply held beliefs defy verification through debate.

Debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin can disappoint.

Proof is in the eye of the beholder.

A new question - if Rolex played around in the skunkworks with all blue aluminum GMT inserts, wouldn’t they also have played with all red?

Just thinking out loud.


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[springer]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

What authority at all does BobsWatches have?

none for me.

[mrs_LA]

Originally Posted by 77T

A new question - if Rolex played around in the skunkworks with all blue aluminum GMT inserts, wouldn’t they also have played with all red?

Just thinking out loud.


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Oops. Don’t give anyone ideas. We might start seeing a raspberry insert commissioned by the Queen of England, unbeknownst to all of us for the last 40 years...

[exador]

Originally Posted by 77T

Horology and Theology share some common celestial cerebration.

Deeply held beliefs defy verification through debate.

Yes, I see a piece of The Baby Jesus’s Manger has just been returned to Bethlehem in time for Christmas

[77T]

Originally Posted by mrs_LA

Oops. Don’t give anyone ideas. We might start seeing a raspberry insert commissioned by the Queen of England, unbeknownst to all of us for the last 40 years...

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[lee fowler]

Originally Posted by 77T

A new question - if Rolex played around in the skunkworks with all blue aluminum GMT inserts, wouldn’t they also have played with all red?

Just thinking out loud.


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Looks like they played with Green!!

[77T]

Originally Posted by lee fowler

Looks like they played with Green!!

And definitely succeeded for the Sub many years later.

Also did the solid Brown insert for early Root Beers.




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[jedly1]

Originally Posted by 964RS

The thing is Jed they know you very well and the rare pieces you have so were probably being prudent wanting to check thoroughly anyway - there's been a number of mistakes where they haven't at RSCs so Geneva seem to be very cautious these days.

Did you not ask them when you took the blue one in IF they ever made other blue ones, rather than presuming that's why they checked it? Is it possible to check with the same people now who confirmed it was fake if there are others that are not and when/where/how they were made? You have good connections to ask....

No Jason I didnt directly say those words as the whole jist of the conversation was ‘we have to be careful as there are many fake ones around ( no surprise there ) .... if they simply didn’t exist that conversation makes zero sense ...

I should preface by saying I first took it to Rolex Australia who , as they usually do with valuable pieces before accepting them for service thouroughly inspected , stripped and sent detailed macro photos to Geneva for approval to service ..... at which point Geneva said it’d have to come to them for inspection of the bezel before it could be done with that bezel on. .... again makes little sense if they coulda said we never made blue bezels ‘

On the other , question asked ... total radio silenced far ....... I feel for Isabelle Humm if she did write that letter , which still no one has commented on why it’s been removed by the original poster , she may be in a whole heap of trouble with the Rolex lawyers as AAkvipers isn’t the only one that has previously been accepted for service ( and documented ) ... that’s a whole liability issue that as you well know Jas they’ll bend over backwards to avoid .... hence my surprise as to the existence of that letter ( regardless of of its true or not )

[shoota70]

Originally Posted by zapokee

The title of the post is misleading.

Nowhere does the letter state that these all-blue inserts are fake. It just says GMTs were never produced with them, which ties in with the common notion that they are service parts.

I don't have a dog in this fight either way, but this letter doesn't stand up as conclusive evidence for the OP's assertion.

As you were.

Why would they make a service part for a part they never made?

[gsg]

Why would they all start surfacing from the early 2000's?

[swish77]

Originally Posted by shoota70

Why would they make a service part for a part they never made?

Excellent point. Is there any service part, for any Rolex reference in its entire history, that is completely different in design/color to the item it's replacing? Maybe the closest would be a luminova dial replacing a tritium dial, but that just speaks to function, not design/color.

[037]

Originally Posted by swish77

Excellent point. Is there any service part, for any Rolex reference in its entire history, that is completely different in design/color to the item it's replacing? Maybe the closest would be a luminova dial replacing a tritium dial, but that just speaks to function, not design/color.

Service inserts rarely look identical to the originals unless the inserts happen to be leftover from the original manufacturing run. Tritium service dials also typically differ from the originals. Service hands, even tritium, are typically white gold rather than rhodium plated steel unless you happen to find something truly NOS. Service bracelets also rarely match the originals 1:1 unless, again, they're leftover from the same era.

If only one run of blue inserts was made then both the originals and service replacements would match 1:1. And, if they were never made for public release then they might not have a service part number or be sitting alongside current service stock.

Just thinking out loud.

[Token74]

Originally Posted by Dlf

“To the best of our knowledge” means they don’t have a badgers.

Ha ha


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[Fredrik]

Regarding that no mentions of it in service manuals have surfaced:

Is the 60min bezel insert for milsubs mentioned in any service manuals?

[swish77]

Originally Posted by 037

Service inserts rarely look identical to the originals unless the inserts happen to be leftover from the original manufacturing run. Tritium service dials also typically differ from the originals. Service hands, even tritium, are typically white gold rather than rhodium plated steel unless you happen to find something truly NOS. Service bracelets also rarely match the originals 1:1 unless, again, they're leftover from the same era.

If only one run of blue inserts was made then both the originals and service replacements would match 1:1. And, if they were never made for public release then they might not have a service part number or be sitting alongside current service stock.

Just thinking out loud.

Not sure I buy that argument. Those changes on service parts are relatively minor differences, and usually were made to improve functionality or longevity of the part. Making a service part in a different color than the original is a major design change that only pertains to aesthetics, not function. I can't think of an equivalent example.

[Swearengen]

I have been asking myself that

Originally Posted by gsg

Why would they all start surfacing from the early 2000's?

[037]

Originally Posted by swish77

Not sure I buy that argument. Those changes on service parts are relatively minor differences, and usually were made to improve functionality or longevity of the part. Making a service part in a different color than the original is a major design change that only pertains to aesthetics, not function. I can't think of an equivalent example.

But, if the blue insert was made as a short run and in the same factory that Rolex contracted at the time, both "service" parts and "random, floating around" parts could coexist. And, the so-called service parts might not have ever made it into packaged and stocked form. Personally, I think calling them service parts is a misnomer as I doubt they were ever stocked (assuming they're real vs. fake).

It's also very possible that someone in the original factory (again, contracted by Rolex but not sanctioned by Rolex) could have thrown blue ink in a batch run meant to print black and ended up with a thousand or so blue inserts. Eventually they made circulation and here we are today. Some have since been faked but the ones suspected to be real sure look identical to the same era of black inserts.

I'm not arguing for or against but simply thinking out loud on possibilities.

And, as mentioned above, it's not like Milsub inserts are still available. Everything known is thought to be out in circulation and not a single insert left inside Rolex. That does seem to be a fitting comparison.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by 037

But, if the blue insert was made as a short run and in the same factory that Rolex contracted at the time, both "service" parts and "random, floating around" parts could coexist. And, the so-called service parts might not have ever made it into packaged and stocked form. Personally, I think calling them service parts is a misnomer as I doubt they were ever stocked (assuming they're real vs. fake).



It's also very possible that someone in the original factory (again, contracted by Rolex but not sanctioned by Rolex) could have thrown blue ink in a batch run meant to print black and ended up with a thousand or so blue inserts. Eventually they made circulation and here we are today. Some have since been faked but the ones suspected to be real sure look identical to the same era of black inserts.



I'm not arguing for or against but simply thinking out loud on possibilities.



And, as mentioned above, it's not like Milsub inserts are still available. Everything known is thought to be out in circulation and not a single insert left inside Rolex. That does seem to be a fitting comparison.

But now are you theorizing that “real” equals made in the same factory as Rolex parts happen to be made, even if Rolex didn’t contract/intend for them to be made?

I have no dog in this fight, I’ve never bought or sold a blue one; I just find it fascinating.


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[Mrpupsi]

Usually with these older Rolex’s, people have come forward and say ‘That’s how I bought it’, or ‘when it was serviced they swapped it out for a blue insert’. Nobody has done so as far as I’m aware.

It’s hard to believe with the wealth of knowledge and contacts on here, that nobody knows of anybody that bought one of these originally.

[Mrpupsi]

Usually with these older Rolex’s, people have come forward and say ‘That’s how I bought it’, or ‘when it was serviced they swapped it out for a blue insert’. Nobody has done so as far as I’m aware.

It’s hard to believe with the wealth of knowledge and contacts on here, that nobody knows of anybody that bought one of these originally.

[Paulie 50]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

Regarding that no mentions of it in service manuals have surfaced:

Is the 60min bezel insert for milsubs mentioned in any service manuals?

They were special watches made for military usage, with welded pin holes and usually on a Nato, you can't compare the two. Whilst one the subject, you don't see any Comex in the brochures either.

[037]

Originally Posted by southtexas

But now are you theorizing that “real” equals made in the same factory as Rolex parts happen to be made, even if Rolex didn’t contract/intend for them to be made?

I have no dog in this fight, I’ve never bought or sold a blue one; I just find it fascinating.

Hypothesizing as a possibility on how these might have been made, sure. I'm not picking a side, however.

This is almost like debating extraterrestrial life. Almost.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by 037

Hypothesizing as a possibility on how these might have been made, sure. I'm not picking a side, however.

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[ROGERB]

So if I may, years ago GM contracted out the production of Retail window stickers, not unlike the use of Rolex from time to time to use different places to contract say dials, bezels etc. In the GM case some Dealers contacted the window sticker supplier and asked f they could order their OWN window sticker as long as they verified the required information with one small adjustment, they wanted a different MFG Suggested Retail Price (and not lower either!) This went on for a number of years.
So someone contacts a bezel supplier and requests the identical bezel except in say only one colour like blue for use as service replacements?? ( You could make a made for TV special out of this!!)

R

[964RS]

Originally Posted by jedly1

No Jason I didnt directly say those words as the whole jist of the conversation was ‘we have to be careful as there are many fake ones around ( no surprise there ) .... if they simply didn’t exist that conversation makes zero sense ...

I should preface by saying I first took it to Rolex Australia who , as they usually do with valuable pieces before accepting them for service thouroughly inspected , stripped and sent detailed macro photos to Geneva for approval to service ..... at which point Geneva said it’d have to come to them for inspection of the bezel before it could be done with that bezel on. .... again makes little sense if they coulda said we never made blue bezels ‘

On the other , question asked ... total radio silenced far ....... I feel for Isabelle Humm if she did write that letter , which still no one has commented on why it’s been removed by the original poster , she may be in a whole heap of trouble with the Rolex lawyers as AAkvipers isn’t the only one that has previously been accepted for service ( and documented ) ... that’s a whole liability issue that as you well know Jas they’ll bend over backwards to avoid .... hence my surprise as to the existence of that letter ( regardless of of its true or not )

That's fair enough mate. I was just asking if you had asked directly the question, but seems not. We all know that a jist of a conversation can be interpreted different ways depending who is speaking and how what is being said is being interpreted. Be interesting to know if they come back and confirm one way or another but I expect they won't.....

Even IF they did it's hard to know which ones are real and which ones are fake now....most of the proof is based on dealer heresay now....

[jedly1]

Originally Posted by 964RS

That's fair enough mate. I was just asking if you had asked directly the question, but seems not. We all know that a jist of a conversation can be interpreted different ways depending who is speaking and how what is being said is being interpreted. Be interesting to know if they come back and confirm one way or another but I expect they won't.....

Even IF they did it's hard to know which ones are real and which ones are fake now....most of the proof is based on dealer heresay now....

Agreed

[Showcall]

Originally Posted by lee fowler

As promised Blue GMT hands!

O FFS, only 2 in existence..

[mzinski]

Wow! Amazing debate and fascinating 7 pages of reading. I think we’ll all go back and forth until we’re blue in the face. Really, if we truly want to know if these blue insert are real or have any market value we need the one and only source, the most influential of all, the last word in all things watches...

What does Hodinkee say???

[gsg]

I thought it was funny to rewatch this old Hodinkee video where they discuss the blue bezel gmt. It seems all the owners have bought into the story with a blind faith and like to repeat the same facts over and over...

Blueberry conversation starts at 6:18:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/ta...s-keegan-allen