eBay sale gone wrong

[samuel019]

Originally Posted by RRsDJ

WOW!

I agree, 50 days is RIDICULOUS! I think buyers should have 48hrs to inspect the goods. The buyer, a "used watch dealer for 20yrs." had my DJ a whole week before he filed the Paypal claim. Who knows what was done within that week!! I will never sell anything of value on eBay or Paypal ever again. Ive learned my lesson.

Exactly!! I wondered the same thing thing about what has happened over those 50 days. I am sorry partner. I feel for you. I really do.

[RRsDJ]

Originally Posted by samuel019

Exactly!! I wondered the same thing thing about what has happened over those 50 days. I am sorry partner. I feel for you. I really do.

Thanks!

[crowncollection]

Originally Posted by MonBK

Ok, back to the subject at hand.

With all the pictures presented, what say you all?

It is morning now in Australia, i just woke up, and I finally have the pictures I requested to make a proper assessment. I seller did contact me and could not find the G, but he does not know what he was looking for, so I requested more specific photos. They are now on the forum I see. It's looks like the buyer is correct the band is fake. I was not happy to judge on scrollwork alone as this has changes over the years and the photo was not a good one taken through a loupe. The G is much more important anyway, after seeing the screw and screw hole. The band is fake sorry. .

I do not regret my comments towards this Brad though, we do know our stuff if we have all the info. It is of course easier if the band is in your hand.

[RRsDJ]

Originally Posted by crowncollection

It is morning now in Australia, i just woke up, and I finally have the pictures I requested to make a proper assessment. It's looks like the buyer is correct the band is fake. I was not happy to judge on scrollwork alone as this has changes over the years and the photo was not a good one taken through a loupe. The G is much more important anyway, after seeing the screw and screw hole. The band is fake sorry. .

I do not regret my comments towards this Brad though, we do know our stuff if we have all the info. It is of course easier if the band is in your hand.

I guess we shall see what Paypal decides then. From what i looked up online the screw tapers and has fine threads just like mine. If youre judging the head its been mangled a bit. i had to open the slit up with a jewelers screw driver because it closed up on me when i tired to remove it.

If it is "fake" I guess he was right, ADs are Mickey Mouse. My AD had my watch twice and never said a thing. Ill out my AD when Paypal gives me his documents and pictures proving its "fake".



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[MonBK]

Originally Posted by crowncollection

It is morning now in Australia, i just woke up, and I finally have the pictures I requested to make a proper assessment. I seller did contact me and could not find the G, but he does not know what he was looking for, so I requested more specific photos. They are now on the forum I see. It's looks like the buyer is correct the band is fake. I was not happy to judge on scrollwork alone as this has changes over the years and the photo was not a good one taken through a loupe. The G is much more important anyway, after seeing the screw and screw hole. The band is fake sorry. .

I do not regret my comments towards this Brad though, we do know our stuff if we have all the info. It is of course easier if the band is in your hand.

I'm aware of the changes over the years but this one is clearly (my opinion of course) a Mickey Mouse job.

Thanks for confirming.

[crowncollection]

Originally Posted by RRsDJ

I guess we shall see what Paypal decides then. From what i looked up online the screw tapers and has fine threads just like mine. If youre judging the head its been mangled a bit. i had to open the slit up with a jewelers screw driver because it closed up on me when i tired to remove it.

If it is "fake" I guess he was right, ADs are Mickey Mouse. My AD had my watch twice and never said a thing. Ill out my AD when Paypal gives me his documents and pictures proving its "fake".



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I will remain less involved in future and not try to help, as i am getting sick of defending myself. AD know very little in my opinion about older watches on how to establish authenticity that is just my opinion of course, many watchmakers don't even know how to tell so don't feel bad. Tapering screws have nothing to do with my diagnosis of the band and are irrelevant with president bands, this information refers to oyster and jubilee bands only when judging authenticity. I think the thread has been very educational to many, so its a good thread anyway. A little background about me, my father is a watchmaker who worked at Rolex for 10 years in the service division before he became an independent watchmaker and opened his own store, the inside knowledge he imparted on me cannot be found on the net or in book, only from internal rolex reference guides and via inhouse rolex training. The photo of the hallmark is still not close and clear enough to see the G, and you said in a email you can't see it at all, sometimes if you have never seen it before and have no reference such as the clear photo i have now provided people miss it so that did not mean anything at the time and i requested the photos. My apologies for not giving you longer, i did forget about the time difference, also some people polish the inside of the clasp, something you should never do, and polish the clarity of the hallmarks away. I still can't see what i need to see in the screw photo re: the thread but this photo of the screw hole tells me all

[crowncollection]

Originally Posted by MonBK

I'm aware of the changes over the years but this one is clearly (my opinion of course) a Mickey Mouse job.

Thanks for confirming.

It's always good to have a debate with knowledgable members

[Wllnv19]

Originally Posted by crowncollection

I will remain less involved in future and not try to help, as i am getting sick of defending myself. AD know very little in my opinion about older watches on how to establish authenticity that is just my opinion of course, many watchmakers don't even know how to tell so don't feel bad. Tapering screws have nothing to do with my diagnosis of the band and are irrelevant with president bands, this information refers to oyster and jubilee bands only when judging authenticity. I think the thread has been very educational to many, so its a good thread anyway. A little background about me, my father is a watchmaker who worked at Rolex for 10 years in the service division before he became an independent watchmaker and opened his own store, the inside knowledge he imparted on me cannot be found on the net or in book, only from internal rolex reference guides and via inhouse rolex training. The photo of the hallmark is still not close and clear enough to see the G, and you said in a email you can't see it at all, sometimes if you have never seen it before and have no reference such as the clear photo i have now provided people miss it so that did not mean anything at the time and i requested the photos. My apologies for not giving you longer, i did forget about the time difference, also some people polish the inside of the clasp, something you should never do, and polish the clarity of the hallmarks away. I still can't see what i need to see in the screw photo re: the thread but this photo of the screw hole tells me all

David, I hope you stay involved, it's people like you who help educate the rest of us. I do not think you need to defend yourself or apologize for anything.

[mrbill2mrbill2]

Originally Posted by crowncollection

I will remain less involved in future and not try to help, as i am getting sick of defending myself. AD know very little in my opinion about older watches on how to establish authenticity that is just my opinion of course, many watchmakers don't even know how to tell so don't feel bad. Tapering screws have nothing to do with my diagnosis of the band and are irrelevant with president bands, this information refers to oyster and jubilee bands only when judging authenticity. I think the thread has been very educational to many, so its a good thread anyway. A little background about me, my father is a watchmaker who worked at Rolex for 10 years in the service division before he became an independent watchmaker and opened his own store, the inside knowledge he imparted on me cannot be found on the net or in book, only from internal rolex reference guides and via inhouse rolex training. The photo of the hallmark is still not close and clear enough to see the G, and you said in a email you can't see it at all, sometimes if you have never seen it before and have no reference such as the clear photo i have now provided people miss it so that did not mean anything at the time and i requested the photos. My apologies for not giving you longer, i did forget about the time difference, also some people polish the inside of the clasp, something you should never do, and polish the clarity of the hallmarks away. I still can't see what i need to see in the screw photo re: the thread but this photo of the screw hole tells me all

David

Do not back down. Your knowledge is amazing and greatly appreciated by me and I bet a vast majority of TRF members. Don't let a small minority silence you.

MrBill

[ralpie]

Originally Posted by Wllnv19

David, I hope you stay involved, it's people like you who help educate the rest of us. I do not think you need to defend yourself or apologize for anything.

Well said.

[crowncollection]

Thanks guys I appreciate the support

[mcjp6]

Originally Posted by mrbill2mrbill2

David

Do not back down. Your knowledge is amazing and greatly appreciated by me and I bet a vast majority of TRF members. Don't let a small minority silence you.

MrBill

I'll second that......

[A.Sharp]

Wow, I started on https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=264290 and then to here... Quite an exhausting read if you ask me. Here is MHO on the whole thing... I think the seller really didnt know that his band was fake. I think the buyer's attitude was not a good one, and he did not make a strong case, rather he just insulted members of this forum. I think david reinforced just how valuable this forum is, and the ability to have connectivity to its members like david. Thanks man, and stay vocal! I think those who hate pay pal should realize that pay pal was a real life saver in this situation, the alternatives would have been extremely dicey for both. and in my last and final opinion, AD's can be very knowledgeable... They could also just be sales people who might as well be selling match books. I remember an AD telling my step mother that the clasp on the gmtiic and the subc were the same, and there wasnt a difference.

[springer]

I just found this thread and after reading it all, my first question would be - why did the seller buy the watch if it is counterfeit!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????

Second, the idea of counterfeiting is to make it as close to the original as possible. The guys counterfeiting gold bands and cases do a very nice job and are rather proud of their profession. I've seen some counterfeit gold heads and bands and they are very deceptive. Which leads to my point, authorized dealers would be the last place to take an item to verify its authenticity. Someday I'll post a thread on the Rolex Service Center that examined a Tudor head that had a counterfeit tritium swiss -T <25 dial that they said was genuine - which was counterfeit.

[crowncollection]

I have had emails from members that have reinspired me, thanks guys. I want to add a little more info about authentication to help some members that are unsure about casebacks and cases themselves, the same hallmark rules apply to all 18k yellow gold products pre 1995 made by rolex or infact in switzerland wether that be by rolex or competitors such as patek phillipe etc. however note not all rolexes competitors use the geneve assay office so it may be one of the other letters under the queens neck eg. B for the bienne assay office and the same post 1995 with the dog. You will always see similar hallmarks to the band on rolexes on cases and casebacks, the scrolling is not their of course, and they have an engraved caseback reference number and rolex stamped etc.. However, cases and casebacks, will always have the Queens head with the letter G under her neck without exception pre 1995 and post 1995 the St bernards head with the letter G in the ear.

Those trusted friends who frequent the watchout section and you know who you are guys, you can pm me if you have questions. Regards.

[jolimont]

love your work David

[J. Alan]

David, your knowledge is invaluable in the Watchout!! post and you obviously know your stuff when it comes to case and bracelet identification. Have you ever thought of publishing your father's and your identification information in a small book, or even as an APP. I know you won't get rich, but it would sure be great to make your information available to TRF members.

Unfortunately, the one danger is this valuable info could fall into the wrong hands!!

Please do keep up the excellent sleuthing

J. Alan

[swatty]

Originally Posted by MonBK

Ok, back to the subject at hand.

With all the pictures presented, what say you all?

A bit late to this thread, yes the bracelet is fake. I was the victim of a similar bracelet many years back. It's real gold , just not made by Rolex , we all live and learn

[Andad]

You are correct Peter - and I would back David's evaluations 100%.

My interpretation is that the OP sold what he believed was a 100% genune Rolex.
There are many out here who genuinely believe that they also have a genuine article.

I will say again to the buyer and seller - refund the $$'s and return the watch.

[crowncollection]

Originally Posted by J. Alan

David, your knowledge is invaluable in the Watchout!! post and you obviously know your stuff when it comes to case and bracelet identification. Have you ever thought of publishing your father's and your identification information in a small book, or even as an APP. I know you won't get rich, but it would sure be great to make your information available to TRF members.

Unfortunately, the one danger is this valuable info could fall into the wrong hands!!

Please do keep up the excellent sleuthing

J. Alan

Thanks, I did not expect to cause such a stir. I fear the wrong people will do wrong with it. However, members need to know on the other hand. That's the point of the watch out section, stop scammers and inform more trf members what to look out for and watch out for fakes, as the more eyes out their stopping scammers the better. I must make it clear i do not believe this seller was a scammer, this seller was just another victim of counterfeiter scum. I did not reveal the screw/screw hole and welds info as I have still have concerns bad elements watch these forums.On a different note about my fathers knowledge, dad is getting older as we all are and had a triple bypass recently so he needs to recover and get his strength back right now. regards.

[artschool]

so it turns out the buyer was correct and he gets a ban?

no wonder he was miffed.

[mmmk604]

Originally Posted by artschool

so it turns out the buyer was correct and he gets a ban?

no wonder he was miffed.

His first post was rude and unprofessional, it doesn't matter if he's right or wrong about the band

[ralpie]

Originally Posted by mmmk604

His first post was rude and unprofessional, it doesn't matter if he's right or wrong about the band

He was rude and disrespectful to knowledgeable members. However, imagine being sold a fake, then seeing a forum where the guy who sold you a fake says that it isn't fake and many members of that forum say to out him, fight him to the bitter end etc.

Reading that while your adrenaline level is up after being scammed (even though not intentional), it is difficult to be nice.

The good news is, we have members here that know EVERYTHING, so most wrongs are righted very quickly.

[TPLGT]

Originally Posted by ralpie

He was rude and disrespectful to knowledgeable members. However, imagine being sold a fake, then seeing a forum where the guy who sold you a fake says that it isn't fake and many members of that forum say to out him, fight him to the bitter end etc.

Reading that while your adrenaline level is up after being scammed (even though not intentional), it is difficult to be nice.

The good news is, we have members here that know EVERYTHING, so most wrongs are righted very quickly.

First off the OP didn't call the guy a crook and offered him to return the watch but the guy ignored him. The members on this forum are very knowledgeable and if you read, the bracelet was found to be not authentic.

Don't defend the guy. The OP had a legitimate belief he was being scammed...it happens too frequently. The buyer is obviously a jerk...read his his first post, again. He claims he's a GOD in the watch selling arena....please. Who says that about themselves?

I hope the OP gets it straightened out but it doesn't sound very much like the buyer wants to cooperate.

[ralpie]

Originally Posted by TPLGT

First off the OP didn't call the guy a crook and offered him to return the watch but the guy ignored him. The members on this forum are very knowledgeable and if you read, the bracelet was found to be not authentic.

Don't defend the guy. The OP had a legitimate belief he was being scammed...it happens too frequently. The buyer is obviously a jerk...read his his first post, again. He claims he's a GOD in the watch selling arena....please. Who says that about themselves?

I hope the OP gets it straightened out but it doesn't sound very much like the buyer wants to cooperate.

Never said he called him a crook. Just trying to see both sides.

[joseluu]

....

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by artschool

so it turns out the buyer was correct and he gets a ban?

no wonder he was miffed.

REALLY??? He was banned because he was acting like a disrespectful, punk !! There are much better ways and avenues to get your point across. As the buyer found out rather quickly.

[RRsDJ]

Originally Posted by ralpie

Never said he called him a crook. Just trying to see both sides.

All I have ever asked of Chad (the buyer) was for proof. Some type of documentation. Would you believe somebody, that you've never met before, if they said something you sold them was fake but refused to give you proof other than saying "trust me its fake" and you believe it's authentic? I already know you wouldn't nor would anyone else here.

He could've easily came on here and posted proof IE: pictures to the contrary and the end all be all, posted up a form from Rolex RSC showing its "fake". Instead he sends me non professional emails, try's to put me down, uses inappropriate language and comes on here and belittles everyone on this forum.

He could've handled this situation alot better but he chose to act like a child (hes in his mid-40s) and resort to name calling. He claims to do over a million dollars a year in selling watches alone yet dumbs his self down over $1,500.00? He's showed his true colors and how he really is.......


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[RRsDJ]

Originally Posted by springer

I just found this thread and after reading it all, my first question would be - why did the seller buy the watch if it is counterfeit!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????

Are you serious?

If you are, as you can see I didn't know it was counterfeit. If you read both threads there are several members with President bracelets that have said mine looks just like theirs and mine it real.

I don't live and breathe Rolex watches. It looks real to me. It's real 18k. gold. The DJ is authentic so why would I think the bracelet is counterfeit. I didn't buy it from joe blow on the street or a shady corner store selling huge chains and Jesus pieces. It was purchased from a very reputable jewelry store in Houston which I've done business with AND so has family for many years. As the saying goes, sh@t happens. It looks like the jewelry store was tricked and so was I.

Again if I knew what I had I would've never made this thread. I would've taken the money and never responded to the buyer OR called up Paypal personally the other day to ask them a few questions about the situation.



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[RRsDJ]

Forgot to mention...at this point in time I can not refund the buyer since its in the hands of Paypal. They informed me yesterday that they are requiring the buyer to submit information. So my hands are tied until Paypal reaches a decision.


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