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Old 2 June 2020, 05:39 AM   #1
Scott W
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Icon8 Scammed out of my original full set Datejust Turn-O-Graph (16263)...

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Hi everyone!

Unfortunately, this has to be my first post here, but I am cross-posting in the event that it does pop-up for sale either in it's original or some modified version of what I have lost.

Well, I hang my head low as I join this community and type out how I got scammed, even though I had taken (almost apparantly) every step to protect myself that I could.

I really don't care how we look at it...I was either scammed out of my watch, or out of the $6,500 for my watch...but if I am to believe TD's stance on this, I am only out my watch.

Bottom line is this:
- Add placed for sale on Kijiji on Monday, May 25th.
- Person from Ottawa calls to discuss on Wednesday, May 27th, receive add'l pictures via text & subsequently negotiate price and arrangements
- I would only accept wire transfer
- He provided his drivers license to me (this will help if small claims court is the route I end up taking)
- I verified funds "transfered" to my account
- Independant courier arrived and I handed off watch set (have picture of courier with watch set)
- May 29th, funds were taken back from my account "CHEQUE RETURNED".

So the guy in Ottawa made all of the arrangements with me directly, while communicating with me while he "was with his bank manager", but what actually happened (that I couldn't see on my end) was that he had a third party in Montreal deposit a fraudulent/NSF/invalid cheque at TD Branch 4780 in Montreal.

I have all of the screen caps of discussion, Ottawa guys Drivers License & cell phone number (he has blocked me on his iPhone (blue to green))., the scan of the shit cheque, as well as all of my banking documentation.

I am currently waiting on the Fraud unit detectives from my local police office to contact me, and have worked through what I could at this point at the bank.

At this stage, I know I am out both the watch and the cash, but I would like to get this across the Canadian/US Rolex community as quickly as possible as I would hate for someone to get a great deal on my watch, only to have it taken from them when they try to service it.

Serial Number reported to police database + Rolex Canada (W285584)

Hit me up with any questions you may have, and here are photos of everything I had sent this scumbag.

**I can't post album links or photos as I don't have 10 posts, and I have no intention of spamming the forum to get there...but I have everything communicated**
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Old 2 June 2020, 09:48 AM   #2
Mrfleming344
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Sorry to hear this
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Old 2 June 2020, 09:55 AM   #3
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Sorry to hear.

When I bought traded or sold more often, I found that when I told buyers I insisted on a 7 day wire or PP hold, they usually walked away.

If they didn’t like it, so what? It’s an easy tell that there could be trouble.

I suggest all people test buyers with form delays. Thieves hate waiting.
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Old 2 June 2020, 10:18 AM   #4
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That really sucks. In Australia you have two balances - pending and confirmed. I wouldn't release an item I sold until the amount was confirmed.
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Old 2 June 2020, 10:22 AM   #5
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Sorry to hear this. You can post pictures directly from your device.
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Old 2 June 2020, 10:31 AM   #6
VonSlingshot
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i’m in Ottawa..... PM me his info,

also - kijiji and luxury items - well, that’s a no no and a million halves.
it’s below the pond scum that is craigslist in the USA.
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Old 2 June 2020, 10:45 AM   #7
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Im assuming that this whole time the funds said pending in your account? Or had the funds moved to confirmed status?
I know with my bank, once the funds show confirmed then they cant be returned to sender without the recipients permission. Also, once the status is confirmed, the funds are insured. Not sure if this is the same in Canada.
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Old 2 June 2020, 10:53 AM   #8
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I never assume any wire payment is clear until I have transferred it to another account.
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Old 2 June 2020, 08:33 PM   #9
VonSlingshot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast View Post
I never assume any wire payment is clear until I have transferred it to another account.
OP is in Canada.
Canadian banking system may or may not be the same as your location.

Anyone can deposit into anyoneís account.

So,
Letís say OP asks for cash to be deposited but scammer deposits a cheque and itís not done in front of him (other location) - he will see the deposit on his account.

OP now transfers or withdraws the entire amount.

Cheque bounces, his account goes into a negative - or the bank takes monies from an account/credit source to cover the negative.

So - control who deposits or just pass.

And the very idea that craigslist/kijiji used to sell luxury stuff is literally assinine.
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Old 2 June 2020, 09:59 PM   #10
Scott W
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I hear what you're saying VonSlingshot, however I have sold between $30k-$50k in high value items through Kijiji wihtout issue.

I got burned on this one however...it only takes one!

I will PM you with the guys information.
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Old 2 June 2020, 10:19 PM   #11
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I am sorry that this happened. I hope you find a satisfactory resolution.
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Old 2 June 2020, 11:03 PM   #12
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As far as law enforcement investigations go this would be a pretty easy one to solve if they’re so inclined. First call would be to the courier (where did you deliver this to? Who paid you? What else have you recently picked up for them?) and second visit to the bank to see the image of the person who deposited the check. You also have the phone number of the person that scammed you.

I hope they’re caught and you get your watch back. This sucks to hear!
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Old 3 June 2020, 12:04 AM   #13
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This is . thanks for sharing.
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Old 3 June 2020, 12:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast View Post
I never assume any wire payment is clear until I have transferred it to another account.

^^^^This
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Old 3 June 2020, 04:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VonSlingshot View Post
OP is in Canada.

Canadian banking system may or may not be the same as your location.



Anyone can deposit into anyoneís account.



So,

Letís say OP asks for cash to be deposited but scammer deposits a cheque and itís not done in front of him (other location) - he will see the deposit on his account.



OP now transfers or withdraws the entire amount.



Cheque bounces, his account goes into a negative - or the bank takes monies from an account/credit source to cover the negative.



So - control who deposits or just pass.



And the very idea that craigslist/kijiji used to sell luxury stuff is literally assinine.


Iíd add one point. If a check is deposited, the transfer hasnít cleared and canít be withdrawn in any manner (whether by physical or electronic means).

But if seller has a balance exceeding the checkís value, then that money can be withdrawn.

For those who think it is safe to transfer a wired amount to a 2nd bank as a sign of safety, Iíd refer you to every countryís clawback regulations for financial fraud (which the OPs case boils down to).

There is no safety net if you receive a fraudulent wire transfer. The banks will subrogate to keep their books whole. The bank that initially accepts the wire will end up as the institution that debits the sellerís account. And if that account is empty they will file a lien on any property they can. And if you donít have such property, they file a suit for NSF to satisfy the fraudulent wire debit.


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Old 3 June 2020, 09:39 AM   #16
VonSlingshot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 77T View Post
Iíd add one point. If a check is deposited, the transfer hasnít cleared and canít be withdrawn in any manner (whether by physical or electronic means).

But if seller has a balance exceeding the checkís value, then that money can be withdrawn.

For those who think it is safe to transfer a wired amount to a 2nd bank as a sign of safety, Iíd refer you to every countryís clawback regulations for financial fraud (which the OPs case boils down to).

There is no safety net if you receive a fraudulent wire transfer. The banks will subrogate to keep their books whole. The bank that initially accepts the wire will end up as the institution that debits the sellerís account. And if that account is empty they will file a lien on any property they can. And if you donít have such property, they file a suit for NSF to satisfy the fraudulent wire debit.


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The Canadian banking system is different.

Iíll just make this as easy as possible to explain.

Joe Blow has 2 bank accounts. One for day to day, and one for buying and selling that he keeps at or near zero all the time.

Joe sells a 10k item and money gets deposited in cheque form to the slush fund account
Then he moves that account to his day to day - or heck, even another institution.

Check bounces.

That slush fund account now goes negative 10k and the phonecalls start, UNLESS there are seizeable monies in an adjacent account - to which the bank can take those monies to cover the negative.

Itís in the eleventybillion page account agreement that nobody ever reads when they open an account.

Former banking employee.
Iíve seen and done these transfers myself, because the bank gets a report every day with red flag overdraws that need overriding.

If itís a few hundred bucks, they may just leave it in the red and NSF charge you out the keister for.

But a bigger loss - they are grabbing it from where they can.

Once again - CANADIAN banking system. This doesnít jive south of the border.

OP got smashed.
Fraud over $5k is a major crime in Canada
Iím trying to give him some help behind the scene.

ďWatch outĒ
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Old 3 June 2020, 09:45 AM   #17
Scott W
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This is exactly what happened. The bank had no issue pulling the funds back as I had multiples of that sum in said account.

I immediately transferred out the amount prior to handing the watch off.
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Old 3 June 2020, 09:55 AM   #18
77T
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Scammed out of my original full set Datejust Turn-O-Graph (16263)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by VonSlingshot View Post
The Canadian banking system is different.



Iíll just make this as easy as possible to explain.



Joe Blow has 2 bank accounts. One for day to day, and one for buying and selling that he keeps at or near zero all the time.



Joe sells a 10k item and money gets deposited in cheque form to the slush fund account

Then he moves that account to his day to day - or heck, even another institution.



Check bounces.



That slush fund account now goes negative 10k and the phonecalls start, UNLESS there are seizeable monies in an adjacent account - to which the bank can take those monies to cover the negative.



Itís in the eleventybillion page account agreement that nobody ever reads when they open an account.



Former banking employee.

Iíve seen and done these transfers myself, because the bank gets a report every day with red flag overdraws that need overriding.



If itís a few hundred bucks, they may just leave it in the red and NSF charge you out the keister for.



But a bigger loss - they are grabbing it from where they can.



Once again - CANADIAN banking system. This doesnít jive south of the border.



OP got smashed.

Fraud over $5k is a major crime in Canada

Iím trying to give him some help behind the scene.



ďWatch outĒ

That is exactly what I meant - the seller loses because bank will collect for a bad transfer if he has used or transferred the money.

I was also meaning the ďhold periodĒ for Canadian banks when a cheque based transfer is received.

The seller shouldnít move the money nor ship until after bank hold has cleared. In this case 8 days - by which time the fraudster would be discovered.

Would you agree the maximum Canadian cheque transfer hold periods are as follows?

$1,500 or less: 4 business days if done in person; 5 business days for other methods such a ABM.

More than $1,500: 7 business days if done in person; 8 business days for other methods such a ABM.


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Old 3 June 2020, 10:02 AM   #19
VonSlingshot
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Hold values are based on the individual account holder, the products they hold with the bank and net worth.

Industry calls it "know your customer"

5 business days for a 100k chq is plenty of time to hold funds.

Also, fun fact..... let's say the teller who took the cheque and didn't hold the funds for whatever reason and it bounced....

And Joe Blow didn't have another red cent with that bank and told the bank to pound it when they asked for the money.

The teller takes the "loss" and depending on that denomination, can be fired.
Which is why the person behind the counter has to take a dozen things into perspective when determining to hold it not.

Peace.

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Old 3 June 2020, 11:23 AM   #20
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They don’t hold funds into my account. There is no clearing time hold for me as a customer...I wish there was now! �� ��
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Old 3 June 2020, 12:15 PM   #21
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Too many crooks in the world. Best of luck with this.
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Old 8 June 2020, 05:58 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast View Post
I never assume any wire payment is clear until I have transferred it to another account.
True that. Once a wire comes in, I immediately transfer it out to another account just to be on the safe side.
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Old 8 June 2020, 07:18 AM   #23
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Who in the world sells legit Rolex stuff on kijiji or Craigslist? Iím sorry ó I just donít get it.


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Old 8 June 2020, 07:40 AM   #24
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Sorry to hear this.
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