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Old 27 March 2020, 02:40 AM   #1
edhahn44
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Icon20 Asian engravings

There have been quite some discussions in this forum about Asian cases and engravings - really interesting reads. Are there any patterns and specific watch outs with them that make it easy to spot?

Have seen this watch at a grey which looks legit to me. Also checked with HQ Milton examples. Other veritable Rolex experts told me this might be re-engraved.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oyi...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E_9...ew?usp=sharing

Any views and recommendations?
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Old 27 March 2020, 03:00 AM   #2
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What is the Asian connection?
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Old 27 March 2020, 03:03 AM   #3
edhahn44
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What is the Asian connection?
No direct connection - just read a lot about Asian fake cases and engravings...
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Old 27 March 2020, 04:07 PM   #4
edhahn44
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Any thoughts?
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Old 28 March 2020, 12:13 AM   #5
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Any thoughts?
Tough one. If that Daytona was re-engraved or otherwise doctored, it's well done. There are perhaps some very subtle differences, but you have to factor in lighting in the photos and the angles.

If I had to guess, I'd say the OP's example looks as if the engravings are a little deeper than factory engravings, but difficult to ascertain for sure.

How's the rest of the watch? I'd use the engraving as only one (albeit important) part of confirming overall authenticity. What made you question it in the first place?
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Old 28 March 2020, 01:35 AM   #6
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The only thing that concerns me is the serial number. It doesnt seem to be consistent with the other engravings but as stated above, it may just be the lighting.
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Old 28 March 2020, 02:16 AM   #7
Mark020
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Originally Posted by edhahn44 View Post
No direct connection - just read a lot about Asian fake cases and engravings...
Well: then don't calll it Asian
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Old 28 March 2020, 02:34 AM   #8
edhahn44
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How's the rest of the watch? I'd use the engraving as only one (albeit important) part of confirming overall authenticity. What made you question it in the first place?
Thanks. Happy it's not an obvious pass and you experts also aren't clear.

Watch looks good in general. Only the case raised some questions, hence the concerns about the engravings.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jTe...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q1m...ew?usp=sharing


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jM2...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 28 March 2020, 06:08 AM   #9
RyanPrasad
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Not an expert...

looks to me like an MK4 dial with MK3 Bezel?

Dial looks like the LE in Rolex are missing the downward serifs along with the rounder O's in Cosmograph hence the MK4.

Bezel has the right spacing in and overlap on "Units Per Hour" and the right spacing on the 100 hash for an MK3.

N3 serial seems right for an inverted six..

dumb question but have you checked the movement?
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Old 28 March 2020, 08:05 AM   #10
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Not an expert...

looks to me like an MK4 dial with MK3 Bezel?
Looks like an MK3 bezel and dial to my eyes. I don't think any MK4 dials had inverted 6s, and the sub-dial font has that softer, rounder look, as opposed to the bolder look on the sub-dial font on MK4 dials.

The rest of that watch looks nice. The case/lugs/crown guards are fantastic. Very sharp and thick.
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Old 28 March 2020, 10:33 AM   #11
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Unless the watch is new, and it doesn't appear to be, the case has been re-engraved or is counterfeit. it looks like it was engraved yesterday.
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Old 28 March 2020, 03:25 PM   #12
edhahn44
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Unless the watch is new, and it doesn't appear to be, the case has been re-engraved or is counterfeit. it looks like it was engraved yesterday.
Thanks for all the valuable feedback, much appreciated.

So it's rather a hard pass cause the case causing too many concerns or any chances to verify this further? The rest looks legit to me - here pictures of the movement, papers and caseback.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H94...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15ff...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kY9...ew?usp=sharing




Really helpful to have so many experts in one place.
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Old Yesterday, 02:24 AM   #13
antrolexsub
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Fake case. Was this on eBay a month or so ago, case and papers?

Edit: It wasn’t. It’s a Vietnamese case though in my opinion.
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Old Yesterday, 02:32 AM   #14
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Who’s the dealer?
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Old Yesterday, 02:47 AM   #15
swish77
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As I said previously, the engraving looks deeper than original engravings and there are other subtle differences, such as the stroke on the top of the "1".

The apparent "new-ness" wouldn't bother me as much as the style and depth of the engraving, although it's pretty close. (You still see near NOS 16520s come on the market every once in a while, so some of these cases can be super clean.)

Here are two side-by-side comparison photos, with an authentic 16520 on the left in both photos, and the questionable watch on the right. You be the judge:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TRF2.jpg (170.6 KB, 104 views)
File Type: jpg TRF3.jpg (151.5 KB, 100 views)
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Old Yesterday, 05:54 AM   #16
edhahn44
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Originally Posted by swish77 View Post

The apparent "new-ness" wouldn't bother me as much as the style and depth of the engraving, although it's pretty close. (You still see near NOS 16520s come on the market every once in a while, so some of these cases can be super clean.)
Thanks. Watch is sold by a German dealer. Haven't dealt with him before but seemed legit to me.
Just help me out - what's the reason for such a fake / franken since the rest (movement, dial, bezel, bracelet, papers) look legit and time correct? Like I have a genuine watch with a worn-down case and want to dress it with an unpolished one?

So overall a pass I assume? Thanks for providing the insights...
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Old Yesterday, 08:32 AM   #17
RyanPrasad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swish77 View Post
Looks like an MK3 bezel and dial to my eyes. I don't think any MK4 dials had inverted 6s, and the sub-dial font has that softer, rounder look, as opposed to the bolder look on the sub-dial font on MK4 dials.

The rest of that watch looks nice. The case/lugs/crown guards are fantastic. Very sharp and thick.
Thanks Aaron, I've noticed that the DRSD website and Fratello website show different MK's, the Fratello having up to 7 16520 Dial MK's now.

Is there a general consenus as to which people tend to use as gospel?

Based on Fratello I was thinking it looked like an MK4 still having inverted 6
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Old Yesterday, 08:42 AM   #18
swish77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edhahn44 View Post
Thanks. Watch is sold by a German dealer. Haven't dealt with him before but seemed legit to me.
Just help me out - what's the reason for such a fake / franken since the rest (movement, dial, bezel, bracelet, papers) look legit and time correct? Like I have a genuine watch with a worn-down case and want to dress it with an unpolished one?

So overall a pass I assume? Thanks for providing the insights...
Yes, Id definitely pass. Youd always wonder about the engravings.
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Old Yesterday, 01:18 PM   #19
swish77
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Originally Posted by RyanPrasad View Post
Thanks Aaron, I've noticed that the DRSD website and Fratello website show different MK's, the Fratello having up to 7 16520 Dial MK's now.

Is there a general consenus as to which people tend to use as gospel?

Based on Fratello I was thinking it looked like an MK4 still having inverted 6
Interesting. I hadn't seen the Fratello breakdown, and it looks as if it's got more variations. I think the explanation of the different dials on DRSD.com is more accepted and it's what I've read elsewhere too, but maybe not. It's just hobbyists/dealers/enthusiasts putting different lists together, so who knows.
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