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Old 15 February 2020, 09:51 AM   #61
subtona
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Very curious if the new Ed white will perform similarly after sale?
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Old 15 February 2020, 09:52 AM   #62
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Omega at Retail Price - Ouch.

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Originally Posted by onnomon View Post
Also, their "limited edition" strategy might be another method to create scarcity. However since they seem to release multitudes of LE's every year it gets lost in the minds of wristwatch enthusiasts, maybe not to the general consumer.

I depends how ones sees their limited editions. I don't think Omega intends (with the exception of some low numbered pieces) to be rare. I see Omega using LE's as an opportunity to producing different colour or symbolic variants of their existing pieces, giving customers verity for almost the same cost.

Secondly to test the water to see if a new concept takes off. One example is the Planet Ocean Liquid Metal. The POLM sold exceptionally well (has even gained value on the used market) and now Liquid Metal is standard on a PO.

Omega uses LEs to celebrate events such as Space Exploration milestones, Olympics, Bond films etc. they don't sell them at much or a markup with the exception of some (like the new Bond watch, but they one does too significantly different from their standard lineup).

Omega is becoming more daring with their prices, I suspect they are trying to jump into the next category and using the Bond and new Speedy movement to test the strategy.
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Old 16 February 2020, 04:42 PM   #63
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Last year I went to the only Omega AD in my area to check out a Speedmaster they flat out told me they would “price competitively against Jomashop” when I was ready to purchase. I wasn’t looking to buy then and there, but it’s good to know that they are willing to deal. Granted it’s a smaller mom and pop and the experience can’t compare to the NYC Omega boutique but that 20% off retail would more than make up for it.
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Old 16 February 2020, 11:27 PM   #64
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I think some Omega’s are great value even at MSRP when you compare them against the alternatives. Specifically the Seamaster 300 vs Submariner. I think the PO they have pushed the price too far. My first luxury watch was the PO 2500 in 2010 and I paid £2200. Now they’re over 5K (appreciate there has been upgrades).

I bought the new Seamaster 300 grey for around 3K a few weeks ago and it’s a phenomenal watch for the money. When I hold it against my BLNR and think I could have all 4 colours for the same price market value wise that seem completely crazy to me!

Having said that I’m not about to sell the BLNR to buy 4 Omegas lol
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Old 17 February 2020, 01:51 AM   #65
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I've owned 5 Omega watches since 2007 and only the first one was purchased new from an AD. Albeit discounted I took a bath selling it less than two years later (50% of that I paid). Since then I decided to use this to my advantage and every other Omega piece has been pre-owned.

I also feel sorry for Breitling fans. It's all about the enjoyment of a watch, however, fiscal responsibility / sensibility kicks in if I can enjoy the same thing at a discount or used I would never pay full price.
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Old 17 February 2020, 03:42 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trfChris View Post
In the Rolex section people complain about not being able to buy steel sports models at ADs. In the Omega section people complain about anyone being able to walk in and buy any steel sports model they want!
I’m not sure if you are referring to me or not.

Clearly, I said nothing at all about availability.
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Old 17 February 2020, 03:53 AM   #67
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Brands are damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Rolex lets the gray market resell at stupid markups and everyone's pissed at Rolex, saying they're purposefully restricting supply to drive up the reputation and pricing and that they should do something about flippers and grays.

And Omega is producing an amazing watch, in sufficient numbers to meet demand (or slightly exceed, since there are discounts) and people are pissed off that the watch depreciates.

In the end, they're just commodities. The Rolex bubble will burst, at some point and a lot of people will be left holding expensive pieces they can't dump any anything resembling a reasonable price.

It's funny to watch the hand wringing about resale value. I'll buy a watch to wear. If I need or want to sell it, bonus if it's worth more, but I fully expect it to not fetch a profit.
You appear to make a lot of incorrect assumptions about my post.

If you’ve seen anything about my history here, I’m likely one if the biggest fans of omega on the forum.

I also don’t complain about Rolex, or their secondary pricing.

When I buy omega, it’s in the boutique 100% of the time. So much so that omega has flown me to multiple locations across the US for private events.

That said, and I’ve told this directly to the big dogs at omega that it’s frustrating to see how they are allowing their watches to be sold at 40% off of retail. They can and should control this better.

Nothing but endless discount threads here. I find that annoying. I don’t mind paying for quality. What I mind is that someone can then go find the same thing for 40% less. It devalues my purchase. And sadly, it turns me off a brand with good watches.

And no, I don’t buy watches based on their value. If I did, I would not buy at a boutique. But I most certainly do care about the value of something I’m spending money on. Depreciation means little to me. Buying a watch near to full cost and having it worth 40% less because the brand simply wants to sell volume does.
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Old 17 February 2020, 09:40 AM   #68
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You appear to make a lot of incorrect assumptions about my post.

If you’ve seen anything about my history here, I’m likely one if the biggest fans of omega on the forum.

I also don’t complain about Rolex, or their secondary pricing.

When I buy omega, it’s in the boutique 100% of the time. So much so that omega has flown me to multiple locations across the US for private events.

That said, and I’ve told this directly to the big dogs at omega that it’s frustrating to see how they are allowing their watches to be sold at 40% off of retail. They can and should control this better.

Nothing but endless discount threads here. I find that annoying. I don’t mind paying for quality. What I mind is that someone can then go find the same thing for 40% less. It devalues my purchase. And sadly, it turns me off a brand with good watches.

And no, I don’t buy watches based on their value. If I did, I would not buy at a boutique. But I most certainly do care about the value of something I’m spending money on. Depreciation means little to me. Buying a watch near to full cost and having it worth 40% less because the brand simply wants to sell volume does.
Seth I’m glad you got to tell this to Omega. I’m curious as to what they said. The two boutiques I frequent, one in Orlando the other in Toronto will not discount. I guess enough people buy to keep them going. I would like to see them stop this deep discounting.
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Old 17 February 2020, 09:44 AM   #69
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My comment was more general based, though quoted yours because it was still on point.

If you read the various threads, no one is happy. Too little availability, to much availability. Resale too high, flippers, drastic measures (keeping warranty cards, removing plastic, etc) vs get killed in the secondary.

Not specifically you, just general wailing and gnashing of teeth on here. Thus the "Brands are damned if they do, damned if they don't" opening line. I find it all amusing.
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Old 17 February 2020, 11:01 AM   #70
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Only way I buy Omega is through a trusted TRF seller. Omega has, in part, done it to themselves with their many “limited editions.” I wonder why any experienced collector would ever shop at a boutique..
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Old 17 February 2020, 11:40 AM   #71
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I went to buy one as well but not even close to grey NIB. Don't mind paying more at a retail store but the spread is too much. Ended up with another grey Rolex.
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Old 17 February 2020, 01:51 PM   #72
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Limited edition is an exception, or rather no choice.
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Old 17 February 2020, 09:54 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art 1 View Post
Seth I’m glad you got to tell this to Omega. I’m curious as to what they said. The two boutiques I frequent, one in Orlando the other in Toronto will not discount. I guess enough people buy to keep them going. I would like to see them stop this deep discounting.
Mostly lip service.

They understand and they are working on it. But I’ve been sharing this for years.

And I don’t see any difference. It’s time to shore up the supply chain and stop distributing to AD’s. Must be only boutiques to control pricing. I don’t see that happening though.

Sometimes I think the boutique is just a front. They need them for marketing. Because it truly appears that most buy from AD or gray at a heavy discount.
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Old 17 February 2020, 09:54 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
My comment was more general based, though quoted yours because it was still on point.

If you read the various threads, no one is happy. Too little availability, to much availability. Resale too high, flippers, drastic measures (keeping warranty cards, removing plastic, etc) vs get killed in the secondary.

Not specifically you, just general wailing and gnashing of teeth on here. Thus the "Brands are damned if they do, damned if they don't" opening line. I find it all amusing.
Understood.

Thank you for expounding.
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Old 17 February 2020, 10:21 PM   #75
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It might be a chicken vs egg situation. If demand for Omega was high enough, secondary pricing would be higher and discounts would be easier to justify denying. But, when buyers see secondhand Omega watches selling for 30-50% off MSRP, it's understandable they'd want a new watch at close to the same price. Secondary pricing might have to come up before discounting can justifiably end.

Perhaps they make too many watches and should reduce supply. Unfortunately I suspect the Swatch behemoth won't see it the same way. Shareholders want to see numbers.

Just thinking out loud. It's not an answer but a thought.
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Old 17 February 2020, 10:41 PM   #76
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Pisses me off that they let this happen.

One of my major turn offs about the brand.
I read the entire thread and came back to your post brother. Couldn’t agree more.

I’m with Gus, I wonder what’ll happen with the Ed White pricing, perhaps they’ve created the right buzz around this one
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Old 17 February 2020, 10:48 PM   #77
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Omega at Retail Price - Ouch.

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Originally Posted by 037 View Post
But, when buyers see secondhand Omega watches selling for 30-50% off MSRP, it's understandable they'd want a new watch at close to the same price.


I would be nice but I've never expected this.

Before the supply shortage, did Rolex watches fall in value after buying brand new?
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Old 17 February 2020, 11:08 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by mahlia0121 View Post
I was in the omega boutique this evening, and tried on one of the new Seamaster two tones. After leaving in seriously considering purchasing it, I checked Chrono24 and there are several for a good 25-30% below retail BNIB.

I have a buddy who purchased an omega speedmaster sapphire sandwich at full retail price. Moon phase and date complication. Realistically a great value for the complications. Yet, like many other Omegas it drops by $2,000 right out the door. 6,100 to $4000.

I know there’s a discussion of “value” and not buying a watch just because of its value. Still, I can’t bring myself to buy an omega at retail. Even BNIB Grey is usually 30% cheaper. If I’m wrong, please correct me, but yikes! I’ve never asked for a discount, because I assume it won’t approach grey prices. Anyone else feel this way?


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Every brand has it's own business model and position in the market.

With Omega you don't buy at full retail if you understand the brand.

I don't see and value in getting upset about it or being angry at Omega. Would you rather they never had anything in stock and the grey dealers at a 40% premium over retail or a 2 year wait to pay retail were your only options?



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Old 17 February 2020, 11:11 PM   #79
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I would be nice but I've never expected this.

Before the supply shortage, did Rolex watches fall in value after buying brand new?
Yes, before demand spiked, Rolex professional models other than the Daytona generally all depreciated after purchase. It wasn't uncommon to see a Submariner or Sea-Dweller at 20-30% off on the secondary market. Buying new at full MSRP was uncommon if you were a longtime customer with an AD. Most of my new purchases were 10-20% off depending on the model.

Now that demand is so high, stainless models are MSRP only and gold/platinum models are 0-20% off depending on what it is and how long it's been sitting, if at all. Some ADs are saying no to discounts, period, even on PM models sitting in the case.

Back to Omega, denying discounts could certainly help boost the secondary market but it's not a magic bullet. If too many watches are available on the secondary market and at lower prices, some buyers will be turned off if ADs will only accept MSRP. The secondary market would need to dry up or see a boost in prices.
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Old 18 February 2020, 02:46 AM   #80
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I would be nice but I've never expected this.

Before the supply shortage, did Rolex watches fall in value after buying brand new?
Yes. Especially DJ, TT and PM.
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Old 18 February 2020, 02:48 AM   #81
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Mostly lip service.

They understand and they are working on it. But I’ve been sharing this for years.

And I don’t see any difference. It’s time to shore up the supply chain and stop distributing to AD’s. Must be only boutiques to control pricing. I don’t see that happening though.

Sometimes I think the boutique is just a front. They need them for marketing. Because it truly appears that most buy from AD or gray at a heavy discount.
It seems like they really don’t care. They know their watches are getting dumped.
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Old 18 February 2020, 03:17 AM   #82
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Yes, before demand spiked, Rolex professional models other than the Daytona generally all depreciated after purchase. It wasn't uncommon to see a Submariner or Sea-Dweller at 20-30% off on the secondary market. Buying new at full MSRP was uncommon if you were a longtime customer with an AD. Most of my new purchases were 10-20% off depending on the model.

Now that demand is so high, stainless models are MSRP only and gold/platinum models are 0-20% off depending on what it is and how long it's been sitting, if at all. Some ADs are saying no to discounts, period, even on PM models sitting in the case.

Back to Omega, denying discounts could certainly help boost the secondary market but it's not a magic bullet. If too many watches are available on the secondary market and at lower prices, some buyers will be turned off if ADs will only accept MSRP. The secondary market would need to dry up or see a boost in prices.


Wish I could remember those days.


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Old 18 February 2020, 05:22 AM   #83
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It seems like they really don’t care. They know their watches are getting dumped.
Agree.

I think they get their numbers either way and they are just looking to get the volume.

It’s too bad.
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Old 18 February 2020, 05:45 AM   #84
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Agree.

I think they get their numbers either way and they are just looking to get the volume.

It’s too bad.
Indeed, it's sad. Omega would likely need to be a private company to reverse course.
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Old 19 February 2020, 09:41 AM   #85
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I’m not sure if you are referring to me or not.

Clearly, I said nothing at all about availability.
I interpreted your statement as being disappointed in Omega for allowing their watches to be sold at 40% off in the secondary market. The secondary market price is directly related to availability since high availability means lower secondary market price, so this particular statement is indirectly about availability.

I now realize that your statement could have been about being disappointed that official Omega ADs are selling their watches discounted at 40% off. If this was the case then I agree that this is something that Omega could more easily do something about by pressuring their AD network.

I don't think that enforcing no discounts would change the secondary market price much though since that's much more about perceived desirability than original sale price. After all, the reason ADs discount is to entice sales by getting closer to the market price.
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Old 19 February 2020, 10:55 AM   #86
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Quote:
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Agree.



I think they get their numbers either way and they are just looking to get the volume.



It’s too bad.


Agree Seth. Takes balls to stand up and say “we are good moving less inventory and a higher margin” as an AD when everyone is whoring you out around every corner and online. And Omega doesn’t care because they are selling at wholesale every time.


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Old 19 February 2020, 11:22 AM   #87
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This makes me wonder what Swatch's cost is on every Omega. Does anyone here know?
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Old 19 February 2020, 11:49 AM   #88
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Omega is the new Panerai. There, I said it.
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Old 19 February 2020, 05:35 PM   #89
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Agree.

I think they get their numbers either way and they are just looking to get the volume.

It’s too bad.
This is a great discussion.

Omega is caught in a kind of causality loop and they can’t get out of it.

They have to make a bunch of watches to maximize their huge manufacturing capacity which then floods the market and drives the brand equity in to the ground, but they can’t stop making watches because they have to sell a bunch of watches to support their sales forecasts to “justify” their manufacturing costs....

Meanwhile they just torpedoing themselves. It’s a mess. They have to make more and more references to essentially pay for the mechanism that is ruining their brand and creating sales attrition. They can’t stop.

This is terrible in the luxury watch space that values exclusivity and value retention. Overproduction is the enemy of those tenets and Omega is forced to crank em out regardless of the toxicity of their actions.

Swatch may have to do what Luxoticca did with Rayban. 20yrs ago Rayban was sold for $19.99 in gas stations. They were everywhere! Today they are sold as luxury eye ware and have their own boutiques with models over $300.00.

Luxoticca pulled the freshly acquired Rayban from the market for a year...cut off all their crappy distribution, changed manufacturing methods, made less product and trickled it out through careful distribution the result?

Rayban was desirable and cool again. It wasn’t at gas stations...it was hard to get and owning one meant more. Brand resurrected and it’s more popular than ever.

If Omega, Breitling, IWC, Panerai...etc don’t bust out of their loops of overproduction resulting in toxically discounted products flooding the market, they might be goners. The current market is merciless when it comes to marketing mistakes and will not accept gross depreciation in high end luxury anymore.
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Old 19 February 2020, 10:18 PM   #90
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When I bought my most recent Moonphase I looked at it first at my AD. The salesperson who I have worked with many times over the years even said to me that it doesn't make much sense to buy this piece new. They sell a ton of watches there and said they would have no problem selling it, but she suggested to me to by secondhand. I had already decided this before looking at it, but this watch is over $10K new. I got ~$4K discount buying used. Can't justify buying new when you can save that kind of money secondhand. In terms of value, Omegas hold their value -IF- you don't buy new. I'm pretty confident I can get what I paid or more down the road because I didn't buy new to start with. Same deal with my Moonwatch. If value and depreciation is important to you, simply don't buy new. It is just the reality of Omega.
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