Feelings on Homage watches (not fakes) by Micro Brands

[Rolex74]

Those are really nice! I found a double red Steinhart box set for $485, seems like a good deal

Originally Posted by Goose 104

I have two homage watches. The Lorier Neptune which is its own design and strong influences from the Sub. I also bought the Steinhart OVM39 which I was in two minds about but it isn't as if there are many 5517s about to pick up instead. They are both well made and I like them - especially the Lorier.

[Rolex74]

While I would always prefer the real thing over an homage if money was not an object, I will say there are some nice homages that are pretty nice quality. The San Martin Blue Sub I posted earlier is solid, has a ceramic bezel, tight bracelet, and a nice clasp. It is 316L SS while a Rolex is 904L (I know the Smurf is white gold) which from what I understand is better against corrosion, not sure what other ares 904 is better than 316. Break down the rest of the watch and they both have ceramic bezels, I am not sure if one is superior in quality or not, no data on that, the case is solid, I would love to compare both side by side no movement, the weak point will be the movement, obviously the Rolex movement is well superior over the Seiko NH35. The name also adds value, but when money is an object a nice made homage is not a bad deal.

[Blansky]

The problem is people are using the word homage as if its a positive act or act of honoring. It's not it's theft.

A definition of homage is special honor or respect shown publicly.

The definition of stealing is take (another person's property) without permission or legal right.

And I'm sure someone will come back with the trite saying that copying is the most sincere form of flattery.

To that I would reply that it is the most IN-sincere form of flattery. I like what you have and I'm going to take it without compensation.

Intellectual property is still property. Stealing is not honoring.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by Hollie_Rollie

Ah you’re right. 19k, my bad Chief

17k now stay up my friend.

[emersm]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

As long as no laws are broken, I'm okay with homage watches.

Counterfeits are a whole 'nother story.

[reeko]

Originally Posted by Blansky

The problem is people are using the word homage as if its a positive act or act of honoring. It's not it's theft.

A definition of homage is special honor or respect shown publicly.

The definition of stealing is take (another person's property) without permission or legal right.

And I'm sure someone will come back with the trite saying that copying is the most sincere form of flattery.

To that I would reply that it is the most IN-sincere form of flattery. I like what you have and I'm going to take it without compensation.

Intellectual property is still property. Stealing is not honoring.

Honestly, you have stronger opinions on this than rolex, omega or patek do. If they viewed it as theft they would be suing like crazy.

I don't view it as theft, because as padi mentioned before, many brands look alike. Many dive watches look alike. The fifty fathoms and the sub look alike too.

If the big brands like rolex and AP aren't bothered by it, why should we?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[huncho]

Originally Posted by reeko

Honestly, you have stronger opinions on this than rolex, omega or patek do. If they viewed it as theft they would be suing like crazy.

I don't view it as theft, because as padi mentioned before, many brands look alike. Many dive watches look alike. The fifty fathoms and the sub look alike too.

If the big brands like rolex and AP aren't bothered by it, why should we?

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how is it not theft? it literally looks like an AP besides the name on the dial. same for the one that looks like a rolex. they're taking rolex and ap's designs and just slapping their own names on them. this is like copy pasting someone's paper and writing your name on it lol

[reeko]

Originally Posted by huncho

how is it not theft? it literally looks like an AP besides the name on the dial. same for the one that looks like a rolex. they're taking rolex and ap's designs and just slapping their own names on them. this is like copy pasting someone's paper and writing your name on it lol

There are differences, it's not exactly a copy and paste design. For example, the steinhart pepsi has a different depth rating, different writing on the dial, bezel numbers are different font, and the gmt hand is different.

Steinhart and other homage brands aren't misleading you in thinking that you just bought a Rolex. Theft are those brands that copy everything from font to dial writing (superlative), rolex name on the dial and rehaut, and not to mention fake (stolen) serial number. Oh also the coronet on the dial. Homage brands don't do that.

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[Rolex74]

Originally Posted by huncho

how is it not theft? it literally looks like an AP besides the name on the dial. same for the one that looks like a rolex. they're taking rolex and ap's designs and just slapping their own names on them. this is like copy pasting someone's paper and writing your name on it lol

I can see your point, but as mentioned before if Rolex, PP, or AP, had any issues wouldn't they be suing? There are just so many out there that have used the design that it would be impossible to sue them all.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by Rolex74

I can see your point, but as mentioned before if Rolex, PP, or AP, had any issues wouldn't they be suing? There are just so many out there that have used the design that it would be impossible to sue them all.

i don't have an answer for that question and honestly not judging anyone for buying them but just think its silly to say it's not theft

[JParm]

Are they for me? No.

Are they for my dad? Yes. I've gifted him a Tag Heuer, a Panerai and a few others in the past, even told him I'd get him a Rolex...what does he wear? The homages that he has bought because he's a blue-collar guy and does not even want to put a scratch on the watches he has received from me. Love him!

Point being, while I don't personally like homages, I do understand that there's a market / audience for them.

[Rolex74]

I read up on Steinhart, they are German but the watches are Swiss Made with Swiss movements, the final QC is in Germany. But they were founded in 2001 and the owners inspiration was Rolex, so yes he basically used the Rolex design for his watches, I have never owned one but they look nice. This is a new one and I think it looks great, $650, I would love to own that watch

[Rolex74]

Tell me that is not nice looking.


Movement

SW330-1 Elaboré

Swiss Made
automatic
25 Jewels
second stop

Functions

screwed Crown
date at " 3 "
second time zone using bezel and GMT hand

Case

Stainless steel 316 L
Diameter 42 mm
Height 13,5 mm
Weight 187g
Lug width 22 mm spring bar
Sapphire glass flat, with double anti-reflecting coatings on the interior side with date magnifier
Bezel Alu , gold / brown
Back Stainless steel 316 L screwed
Waterproof to 30 ATM

Dial & hand

Dial chocolate brown
Super Luminova BGW9

hour and minute with Superluminova BGW9
central second hand

Strap & Buckle

Strap Stainless steel 22mm screwed , two - tone yellow gold coating..
Buckle Stainless steel 18 mm with safety deployment clasp and logo.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by Rolex74

Tell me that is not nice looking.


Movement

SW330-1 Elaboré

Swiss Made
automatic
25 Jewels
second stop

Functions

screwed Crown
date at " 3 "
second time zone using bezel and GMT hand

Case

Stainless steel 316 L
Diameter 42 mm
Height 13,5 mm
Weight 187g
Lug width 22 mm spring bar
Sapphire glass flat, with double anti-reflecting coatings on the interior side with date magnifier
Bezel Alu , gold / brown
Back Stainless steel 316 L screwed
Waterproof to 30 ATM

Dial & hand

Dial chocolate brown
Super Luminova BGW9

hour and minute with Superluminova BGW9
central second hand

Strap & Buckle

Strap Stainless steel 22mm screwed , two - tone yellow gold coating..
Buckle Stainless steel 18 mm with safety deployment clasp and logo.

its nice looking because it looks like a rolex lol

[scarlet knight]

I am betwixt and between on this issue. Fakes are bad. Homage, yes they are intellectual theft. But there are a zillion diver watches that are derivative of each other. Tough issue.

The Steinhart root beer above is attractive.

[Rolex74]

Here is their version of the Pepsi, 42mm, yes it is almost exactly like the Pepsi. I would like to actually see it in person.

[Pongster]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

As long as no laws are broken, I'm okay with homage watches.

Counterfeits are a whole 'nother story.

Is it counterfeit only when it is also marked with the marque of the original brand?

If marked something else, it’s not a counterfeit?

How about those “homages” which amount to a colorable imitation of, and are confusingly similar to, the brands they are supposedly homaging?


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[Psmith]

I've never had an issue with homages. If anything, I think they are a healthy part of the watch industry. They provide something of the look of famous models, at a fraction of the price while not attempting to fool anyone. Many microbrands (such as Steinhart, Dievas, Helson, etc...) produce their own original designs. These companies and others have been in business for years, coexisting with the mainstream watch manufacturers. It seems absurd that some here are rather pompously complaining about 'intellectual property'... I'm pretty sure that the watch industry has a good handle on what's happening.

Counterfeiting is a whole other issue.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Rolex74

While I would always prefer the real thing over an homage if money was not an object, I will say there are some nice homages that are pretty nice quality. The San Martin Blue Sub I posted earlier is solid, has a ceramic bezel, tight bracelet, and a nice clasp. It is 316L SS while a Rolex is 904L (I know the Smurf is white gold) which from what I understand is better against corrosion, not sure what other ares 904 is better than 316. Break down the rest of the watch and they both have ceramic bezels, I am not sure if one is superior in quality or not, no data on that, the case is solid, I would love to compare both side by side no movement, the weak point will be the movement, obviously the Rolex movement is well superior over the Seiko NH35. The name also adds value, but when money is an object a nice made homage is not a bad deal.

There are many myths on the net about the special 904L steel now called Oystersteel first Rolex do not manufacture their own steel its got from a third party in billets,and there is nothing magical about 904L or Oystersteel today. It was mainly a brag factor and marketing by Rolex as they were once the only watch manufacturer using it. Today several other companies use 904L SS in watches XOSKELETON for one and Girard-Perregaux .But in the real world 904L steel was not developed for use by any watch brand, it was developed to be used in high salt/acid factories like for instance vinegar pickling factories,and factories that use acid products etc.And the only difference between 904L and 316L is simply this,the main difference between 316L over 904L it has slightly more Molybdenum(Mo)approx 2% more, approx 1-2% more Crome(Cr), 1% copper(Cu), and approx 10% more nickel and that's it all quite cheap commodities.And today far more 316L is sold than 904L, now if it was the other way round 904L would be cheaper than 316L.There are a few disadvantages to 904L it will scratch and show scratches more easily than 316L.The only advantage is, it's a bit more corrosion resistant, but in the real world with today's pampered watches it's doubtful if any real advantage over the industry norm 316L.And the internet myth that 904L is harder than 316L its not true, its how the metal is finally tempered defines its overall hardness, so 316L can be harder than 904L.Most all high end brands like say Patek and AP use the industry norm 316L, if there was any real advantage dont you think all the major brands would use it,marketing is a wonderful tool myself often call it brain washing.

[nda]

Perhaps we could call them a 'copage'?

[Pongster]

In school, when i copy the thesis (word for word, even the spaces and the wrong spelling) of another but i change the title, can i just say i am doing an homage thesis? :)

[Spartacus]

Originally Posted by Blansky

In my opinion any “homage “ not released by the original company is hair splitting not calling it a fake and I’m not sure of the motivation of anyone buying one.

These 3 examples so far are just fakes with a different logo.

I get that a person may like the design of a “ homage” but it is a complete design steal and if a person wants that design, save up for the real thing. Everyone that sees it on their arm knows that they are trying to pass it off as the real thing.

I’m not trying to insult anyone but these designs are a rip off and these companies should be sued. It is intellectual property theft.

Someone had to say it.

Agree 100%.

[Watchflair]

Not a fan - I'd rather an inexpensive Seiko or a micro brand with some originality.

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I get that a person may like the design of a “ homage” but it is a complete design steal and if a person wants that design, save up for the real thing. Everyone that sees it on their arm knows that they are trying to pass it off as the real thing.

....

Someone had to say it.

What if someone wants to try a watch that costs 1/10 of the price just to see how it feels on the wrist. It can be fun

[Rolex74]

Originally Posted by FTX I

What if someone wants to try a watch that costs 1/10 of the price just to see how it feels on the wrist. It can be fun

That Ginault looks nice!

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by Rolex74

That Ginault looks nice!

Thanks. After I replaced that hideous red hand and had it serviced I agree. This watch has a combination that was never offered by Rolex. Sword hands, 5 digit case and bracelet with glidelock clasp, domed sapphire, so I had to give it a try. I hardly wear it but if I'll put one of my Subs at risk why not have the same feeling, look and comfort for a small fraction of the price.

[Rolex74]

Originally Posted by FTX I

Thanks. After I replaced that hideous red hand and had it serviced I agree. This watch has a combination that was never offered by Rolex. Sword hands, 5 digit case and bracelet with glidelock clasp, domed sapphire, so I had to give it a try. I hardly wear it but if I'll put one of my Subs at risk why not have the same feeling, look and comfort for a small fraction of the price.

Where did you get yours? There is one on ebay and it is at $686

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by Rolex74

Where did you get yours? There is one on ebay and it is at $686

I was travelling to NYC so I sent Ginault an e.mail and the watch was shipped to my hotel. asked for a discount and got it for 1k.

[Rolex74]

Originally Posted by FTX I

I was travelling to NYC so I sent Ginault an e.mail and the watch was shipped to my hotel. asked for a discount and got it for 1k.

I am going to keep an eye out for one, MSRP now is $1500

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by Rolex74

I am going to keep an eye out for one, MSRP now is $1500

I think you can get brand new for something around 1.2k if you talk to them but it's your call. I had it serviced and I'd advise to do the same. Interesting I had the same opinion as our buddy Blansky. He's a clever guy. Funny I changed my mind and thought screw it after years of games, false shortage, disrespect so it was a way of giving back to Rolex the lack of respect they give me. Like I said I don't regret.