Box/papers...where do they go?

[Cambo]

From what I’m seeing, there is a market for the boxes and associated papers (manuals).
If one has no intention of keeping a box, why not just decline them from the dealer?

[tomallen]

Originally Posted by poweredbyjae

Brainstorming

1) Indifference by original buyer
2) Handed down through life events but the box/papers didn't travel with the item
3) Lost/Misplaced during a move
4) Sold

You forgot repurposed, trinket box, junk box and the like.

[khalifam]

When the AD we're keeping the "papers" for over a year I bet that caused a lot of them going missing...

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[RyanJ]

Box and papers, especially after the warranty period are absolutely useless. It doesn't make you a better collector because you keep them.

The fact that we even need to have a warranty card in this day and age is silly when the warranty follows the watch and the SN is on the watch.

I get why some keep them. To each their own. Who am I to tell others what to do with their possessions.....

[jb335]

The older the watch the more it makes sense there are no b&p. Either because no one thought they would be needed or simply because the more time has passed, the higher the chance they have been misplaced or thrown out.

When considering vintage watches, I strongly prefer no b&p due to savings. Buying the seller of course to minimize fraud. And speaking of fraud, let's not pretend a lot of papers out there aren't fake.

I am highly suspicious of any very modern Rolex without them though. Sold since ~2010.

[Rick Deckard]

Where do they go?

Well, the boxes and everything that's replaceable stays at home and goes into one of my "special" decommissioned suitcases. But that's really only boxes and booklets.

Watches, bracelets, warranty cards, and hangtags are at the bank, each one in a transparent Rolex transport box with the card/hangtag attached.

That reminds me, I need to get another suitcase....

But that's just me. My wife had already slated her box for the trash the day I gave her the watch. I did recover it... But I guess that outside of this forum, many boxes meet their fate at the landfill.

[uhren917]

Misplaced is the most common scenario. While I kept all my Rolex accessories, I have misplaced most or all of my other non-Rolex brand accessories due to carelessness. I know I didnt throw them away, but I cannot find them anymore.

[Mwilsey103]

Originally Posted by Big Jay

Lately, browsing the 2nd hand older market, I am coming across a lot of watches without box and papers.

This may be a dumb question but...how does one lose that sort of thing?

My watches box/papers, wife's, the certification for her ring, etc. are all locked up safely. I'm just struggling to figure out why and how so many watches get separated from them.

Is it maybe something as sad as a death and the watch(es) go up for estate auction without the kit being located?

Carelessness?

Other?


I'm just really curious as to what everyone's thoughts are on this.

Early on in my watch passion history I was one of those guys who threw boxes and documentation out. Not any more...

[Calatrava r]

Most people just threw all that stuff away or lost it once the warranty ran out. Remember it was not that long ago that most people owned one watch they wore everyday and the box was not needed and easily misplaced.

[Mendota]

Originally Posted by jimcameron

I don't know if it still applies, but there was a time when travelers would buy a Rolex in "the Caribbean" put on the watch and ditch the box papers before arrival at the airport, as they didn't wish to properly pay a tax upon returning home.

To properly do it you can have the store, in whichever foreign country or state you are purchasing the item, ship the box and other stuff to your home. That way the store has a record of the sale going to a foreign address or out of state address and no sales tax or VAT is required. Same thing here in the US - if you buy from a store outside of your home state while traveling, have them ship the item to your home address and voila, no sales tax. Obviously you have to factor in the cost of shipping relative to the tax you are saving and then determine if it makes any sense to do that, but with foreign VAT the bar is pretty low, and with a watch the state sales tax far exceeds any shipping cost you would pay.

I used to do that all the time whenever I traveled abroad or when traveling here in the states and buying something expensive. It's awesome.

[Rick Deckard]

Originally Posted by Mendota

To properly do it you can have the store, in whichever foreign country or state you are purchasing the item, ship the box and other stuff to your home. That way the store has a record of the sale going to a foreign address or out of state address and no sales tax or VAT is required. Same thing here in the US - if you buy from a store outside of your home state while traveling, have them ship the item to your home address and voila, no sales tax. Obviously you have to factor in the cost of shipping relative to the tax you are saving and then determine if it makes any sense to do that, but with foreign VAT the bar is pretty low, and with a watch the state sales tax far exceeds any shipping cost you would pay.

I used to do that all the time whenever I traveled abroad or when traveling here in the states and buying something expensive. It's awesome.

Side Note: What you are essentially describing and admitting to here is a tax violation (if not more).

1) If you buy abroad and have it shipped, the seller does not have to charge VAT, but you - the buyer in the US - has to pay import duty and state sales tax when you import the item into the US. There is no legal way around that and in MN that tax should be 6.875%. The fact that some travelers don't declare their foreign purchases entirely or ship the box and "forget" that they have a brand-new, non-declared watch on their wrist when passing through customs, doesn't make it legal or good advice.

2) If you buy out-of-state (but within the US), the seller does not have to charge sales tax, but most states still require that you self declare your out-of-state purchase and pay your local sales tax. The fact that few, if any, buyers do so does not make it legal and many states are working on giving the enforceability of this particular law more "bite".

Read all about it here (Florida as an example):

https://floridarevenue.com/taxes/Pages/consumer.aspx

https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/...sh/3770526001/

Except, of course, if you are lucky enough to happen to live in Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire or Oregon (they do not impose a state sales tax, but localities within those states still can and do so).

[Jackie Daytona]

Honestly I like Rolex and all quite a lot, but the boxes don’t feel particularly fancy, and I highly doubt the average owner cares a thing about them. My vote is trash.

[Mendota]

Originally Posted by Rick Deckard

Side Note: What you are essentially describing and admitting to here is a tax violation (if not more).

1) If you buy abroad and have it shipped, the seller does not have to charge VAT, but you - the buyer in the US - has to pay import duty and state sales tax when you import the item into the US. There is no legal way around that and in MN that tax should be 6.875%. The fact that some travelers don't declare their foreign purchases entirely or ship the box and "forget" that they have a brand-new, non-declared watch on their wrist when passing through customs, doesn't make it legal or good advice.

2) If you buy out-of-state (but within the US), the seller does not have to charge sales tax, but most states still require that you self declare your out-of-state purchase and pay your local sales tax. The fact that few, if any, buyers do so does not make it legal and many states are working on giving the enforceability of this particular law more "bite".

Read all about it here (Florida as an example):

https://floridarevenue.com/taxes/Pages/consumer.aspx

https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/...sh/3770526001/

Except, of course, if you are lucky enough to happen to live in Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire or Oregon (they do not impose a state sales tax, but localities within those states still can and do so).

I knew one of the lawyers on the forum would step in! Yes, good points made. As they say, only two things in life are guaranteed, and death is one of them.

[jankymutt]

Related question: For those of us that do keep all the Rolex boxes, how do you store them?

I currently just have all of them neatly packed into a large cardboard box.

This thread has me wondering if I should get a separate safe to store them in case of fire, water damage, theft, etc?


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[911991]

IMHO, back in the day Rolex was not as much as a commodity watch as it is now, so that stuff didn't really matter, heck when I bought mine in the 80s they only had a 1 year warranty. I just happen to be the type that keeps everything, the older boxes were not the best quality but I did use it everyday so it has some wear on the inside...

[RayRay89]

Trash or lost. A lot of Rolex or watch owners buy the watch because it’s a watch and toss the packaging? You don’t keep the box from your iPhone or AirPods?

[Mendota]

Originally Posted by jankymutt

Related question: For those of us that do keep all the Rolex boxes, how do you store them?

I currently just have all of them neatly packed into a large cardboard box.

This thread has me wondering if I should get a separate safe to store them in case of fire, water damage, theft, etc?


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I have one Rolex so far, and I use my green presentation box to store it in. It sits on my nightstand. The outer box is in my closet. When I get my 2nd and 3rd, I am going to shift to a larger storage box for all three. In about two years when we renovate our master suite, my wife and I are each having our cabinet maker add custom systems into our walk-in closets. She's adding a built-in jewelry drawer in hers and mine is going to include a slide out drawer with pillows for watches, and compartments for cufflinks, straps, extra links, and stuff like that with a glass countertop so I can see each watch. I'll either just put the boxes and papers/warranty cards in the safe or tucked in a corner in the closet. Not sure what else to do with them for storage. I have plenty of time before I need to think about that though.

[kizerman]

Originally Posted by Big Jay

Do you have a $10,000 collectible toaster?

Lol

[VonSomething]

Originally Posted by Aquinas

Do you have the box your toaster came in?

Actually I do, lol. I have a thing for keeping boxes for pretty much everything. Old phones, even the boxes from hard-drives/ram/CPU for my years old PC.

For all watches I not only have the original boxes + papers, I even keep the dealer bags as well. I guess that's called Extreme Full Sets?

[Macnavara]

Originally Posted by Big Jay

Do you have a $10,000 collectible toaster?

[996marty]

Obviously some people don’t see the value in the boxes or paperwork and maybe put them in a safe place to be lost over time,My wife has put one of my watches in a safe place and we haven’t found that yet so it does happen

[Macnavara]

Originally Posted by VonSomething

Actually I do, lol. I have a thing for keeping boxes for pretty much everything. Old phones, even the boxes from hard-drives/ram/CPU for my years old PC.

For all watches I not only have the original boxes + papers, I even keep the dealer bags as well. I guess that's called Extreme Full Sets?

More like OCD

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Big Jay

Lately, browsing the 2nd hand older market, I am coming across a lot of watches without box and papers.

This may be a dumb question but...how does one lose that sort of thing?

My watches box/papers, wife's, the certification for her ring, etc. are all locked up safely. I'm just struggling to figure out why and how so many watches get separated from them.

Is it maybe something as sad as a death and the watch(es) go up for estate auction without the kit being located?

Carelessness?

Other?

I'm just really curious as to what everyone's thoughts are on this.

Well before the internet and watch forums people bought Rolex watches to wear and enjoy, without todays alignment points, phone timing apps, timographs etc, and things like boxes were just packaging put in a cupboard or up in the attic. As for the warranty well that was seldom needed when out of date many were thrown away. Then the internet was born after a few years watch forums started, then the various internet sellers deemed these boxes and mostly outdated warranty papers/cards the greatest things since sliced bread. And the sellers new they could charge extra for this packaging warranty paper stuff. So the buyers over the years were willing to pay extra for this paper/packaging stuff, even for bezel protectors and plastic stickers. And many will buy thinking having the box and even a outdated warranty paper proves authenticity of the watch. But today it most certainly does not as these items are more easy to fake than the watches.

[TswaneNguni]

Modern market ,no box and papers is stolen until proven otherwise .

I have no watch in my collection without full box and papers .

[Gerardus]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Modern market ,no box and papers is stolen until proven otherwise .

I have no watch in my collection without full box and papers .

x2

[Ian Macdermott]

Originally Posted by padi56

Well before the internet and watch forums people bought Rolex watches to wear and enjoy, without todays alignment points, phone timing apps, timographs etc, and things like boxes were just packaging put in a cupboard or up in the attic. As for the warranty well that was seldom needed when out of date many were thrown away. Then the internet was born after a few years watch forums started, then the various internet sellers deemed these boxes and mostly outdated warranty papers/cards the greatest things since sliced bread. And the sellers new they could charge extra for this packaging warranty paper stuff. So the buyers over the years were willing to pay extra for this paper/packaging stuff, even for bezel protectors and plastic stickers. And many will buy thinking having the box and even a outdated warranty paper proves authenticity of the watch. But today it most certainly does not as these items are more easy to fake than the watches.

Well said I would also point out that older Rolex boxes weren't much cop anyway, and they are not much better now.

Picture sent by witchcraft. Warning posts may contain pictures of a hairy wrist which some viewers may find offensive.

[jamesbondOO7]

For me lost/misplaced during a move

[Goin2drt]

A watch buyer that just wants a tool and could care less about selling etc.

Not everyone is on TRF and is passionate about the brand. They buy something they like, do not care about selling it or the future value and throw them all away.

Maybe a small percent lose them. Moving or something.

[caminos]

Sometimes when you move they can be lost!


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[GST15]

Originally Posted by Gerardus

x2

I agree!