PP Open Face PW #233873

[mr ling]

Hi everyone,

I have a 18k YG open faced Patek Phillipe pocket watch - case # 233873 and movement # 122480. The back is engraved, but in the absence of an AD I was wondering if anyone here can provide a good resource online that I can use to get an idea of its value.

I can get around to taking pictures at some point


Thanks!

[lapince]

did you try to google if any have been sold at auctions, or on sites?

[MILGAUSS88]

Typically the case number matches the serial number.
Is the case marked Patek?

[jon_jon]

Many Patek watch resellers, especially those that deal with vintage Pateks should be able to help you with valuation if you send them photos of the watch.

[mr ling]

Figured I'd bump this thread to start this conversation up again. I am including pictures of the serial on the movement, case back, and face. Googling hasn't been too helpful using either the number stamped on the case back, or movement ref. I did do some searching on JB Hudson and Son, which has been sold a couple of times over. Further the engraving on the case back looks to be of the Army's 317th Infantry Regiment.

Further history of this watch: It was given to my Great Grandfather, and from him to my Grandfather. They both served; however, not in the 317th, so I think the engraving existed when it was purchased by my GGF.

My goal is to get pointed in any direction to get information on this watch, and find someone to provide a valuation. Watch may be made available for sale at some time in the future as well.

Thanks again!

[qrc36]

You can apply for an extract from the archives, especially if you are looking to sell this later on.

https://www.patek.com/en/retail-serv...m-the-archives

For prices, you may wish to look at Christie's / Sotheby's / Phillips auction results to give an indication of prices.

[MILGAUSS88]

The case appears original, but I would say it has a jeweler installed case. A case that Patek did not produce. The case is not signed, and the serial number of the movement does not match the case. The jeweler would order the movement, then install the case himself.
This is not unusual.
My experience has been that it is not as desirable as a signed Patek case however.
The serial number would put the age at about 1904.

My opinion is that it really is not worth to pay an get an extract for this watch.

[MILGAUSS88]

I see the 317th did not form until 1917.
It is possible that the watch did not sell until then, or that it was engraved at that time.

[mr ling]

Thank you for your help everyone! Very helpful indeed.

[77T]

There is a history of J B Hudson casing Patek movements to sell at their shop in Minneapolis, MN.

Over the years, several have crossed auctions and sales. But none in 18k gold. Prices vary widely.


https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/c...atch-191/37407


http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/...4/lot.226.html


https://www.estatesconsignments.com/...5-enamel-dial/


http://jptimepieces.com/product/pate...xtract-c-1908/





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[MILGAUSS88]

Originally Posted by 77T

There is a history of J B Hudson casing Patek movements to sell at their shop in Minneapolis, MN.

Over the years, several have crossed auctions and sales. But none in 18k gold. Prices vary widely.


https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/c...atch-191/37407


http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/...4/lot.226.html


https://www.estatesconsignments.com/...5-enamel-dial/


http://jptimepieces.com/product/pate...xtract-c-1908/

Those 3 watches all have a Patek signed case.
(The Sotheby's and the JP timepieces are the same watch.) The price is higher than I typically see for that one.

The one sold by Christies is 18k, the chain is 12k.

[mr ling]

Thank you for this information!

Originally Posted by 77T

There is a history of J B Hudson casing Patek movements to sell at their shop in Minneapolis, MN.

Over the years, several have crossed auctions and sales. But none in 18k gold. Prices vary widely.


https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/c...atch-191/37407


http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/...4/lot.226.html


https://www.estatesconsignments.com/...5-enamel-dial/


http://jptimepieces.com/product/pate...xtract-c-1908/





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

In your opinion, does the practice of the Jeweler ordering a movement, and then installing the movement in a non-signed case affect the value a lot? Most of my research has found Patek signed cases, without a 'like' comparison to a non-signed case model.

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

Those 3 watches all have a Patek signed case.
(The Sotheby's and the JP timepieces are the same watch.) The price is higher than I typically see for that one.

The one sold by Christies is 18k, the chain is 12k.

[MILGAUSS88]

Originally Posted by mr ling

In your opinion, does the practice of the Jeweler ordering a movement, and then installing the movement in a non-signed case affect the value a lot? Most of my research has found Patek signed cases, without a 'like' comparison to a non-signed case model.

Thanks again.

Yes, it effects the value some, but not to the extent that a Rolex with service parts would have.

To the collector that wants just one Patek pocket watch, I think they are more likely to go with the triple signed Patek.
The more avid watch collectors would understand that the watch originally came that way and still purchase it.

I am going to ballpark it and say an unsigned case is going to be 15-20% less than a signed Patek Case.