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View Poll Results: Are you usually able to "get your money back"?
Yes. I just make sure to buy the high demand models, and always buy used. 51 37.78%
No, as a private seller buying from watch dealers, you'll always end up losing some. 84 62.22%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 4 January 2020, 02:11 AM   #61
Patton250
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There are much better investment vehicles than watches, but from a value retention perspective, resale value is part of the fun in collecting.

I do like that Rolex does hold its value so if I get bored, I can easily trade up or down and recoup most if not all of my initial cost. Nobody wants to buy a watch and have it lose bulk of the $ value when you walk out the door.

Bottom line, you get the pleasure of owning and wearing Rolex timepieces, and if you’re smart with buying and selling the cost of ownership is low, and perhaps even net positive.
That’s exactly what the OP was talking about.
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Old 4 January 2020, 02:12 AM   #62
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I completely agree with everything you wrote except the highlighted. If you expect it to “make money” then IMO it is an investment.
But I did say "or a profitable return" which would be the same as making money and therefore an investment. I think you actually agree with everything I said.
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Old 4 January 2020, 02:15 AM   #63
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I dont buy with the intention to sell, I buy because I like the watch and will most likely keep it. I have a hard time parting with my watches any way
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Old 4 January 2020, 02:17 AM   #64
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But I also said "or a profitable return" which would be the same as making money and therefore an investment.
Yes it would but that’s not the OP’s intention. It’s a bonus but not the reason.
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Old 4 January 2020, 02:19 AM   #65
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Old 4 January 2020, 02:23 AM   #66
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So far my Rolexes have (at least on paper) provided far better returns than my S&P500 ETF investment
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Old 4 January 2020, 02:54 AM   #67
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That’s exactly what the OP was talking about.

Yes, indeed. My reply was not meant as a critique on his post. It’s a valid topic/question, and I was just sharing my thoughts on the “investment” aspect. I don’t think he’s said anything wrong at all. Talk of resale value brings out a lot of heat on the forums but it isn’t warrantee in this case.
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Old 4 January 2020, 02:56 AM   #68
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So far my Rolexes have (at least on paper) provided far better returns than my S&P500 ETF investment
Well that is truly sad

These 12 Stocks Turned $10,000 To $257,833 In 12 Months

https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-f...-in-12-months/
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Old 4 January 2020, 03:00 AM   #69
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If your money is tied up in a watch rather than making money on a true investment, you're probably losing. The amount you spent on the GMT in 2007 would have purchased about 200 shares of AMZN, which today would be worth around $360,000.

The concept of watches as any kind of investment is an odd one to me.
I had to re-read the OP’s post, but he bought a used 2007 116710LN circa 2018, and sold it about a year later after it was discontinued (2019) to a dealer and broke even... so he wore a GMT for free for a year.
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Old 4 January 2020, 03:06 AM   #70
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Why is there no "Who Cares?" category.
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Old 4 January 2020, 03:07 AM   #71
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so he wore a GMT for free for a year.
Not correct.

What was the opportunity cost of those funds?

These 12 Stocks Turned $10,000 To $257,833 In 12 Months

https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-f...-in-12-months/
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Old 4 January 2020, 03:12 AM   #72
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To me, value retention is a bonus of Rolex, and not even a tertiary reason for me my interest in the watches. I honestly just love the watches.
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Old 4 January 2020, 03:32 AM   #73
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Are you actually "getting your money back"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by beshannon View Post
Well that is truly sad

These 12 Stocks Turned $10,000 To $257,833 In 12 Months

https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-f...-in-12-months/


Yeah even my Dad sent me a message the other day about an article saying the S&P increased by 29% this year (he’s the one who told me to start investing instead of blowing it all on hookers). I only started in this ETF in September and all I can tell you is I’ve made like £5 off £2.5K lol (sure this is peanuts but just testing the water). Typically the day I put money in it started going down. Much like when I bought bitcoin :(

I’m in it for the long haul though and not looking to make a quick buck so all good :)

Edit: presumably your links are about the best performing stocks rather than just tracking the market? Sure but I doubt anyone picked all the best performing stocks. That’s like picking the winning lottery numbers or buying all the Paul Newman Daytona’s back when the cost a few hundred dollars and then waiting until 2019 to sell them all for hundreds of thousands!
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Old 4 January 2020, 03:34 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by beshannon View Post
Not correct.

What was the opportunity cost of those funds?

These 12 Stocks Turned $10,000 To $257,833 In 12 Months

https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-f...-in-12-months/
So, I'll send you ten large and in December 2020 you send me 200k and keep the rest....
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Old 4 January 2020, 03:36 AM   #75
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I had to re-read the OP’s post, but he bought a used 2007 116710LN circa 2018, and sold it about a year later after it was discontinued (2019) to a dealer and broke even... so he wore a GMT for free for a year.
You're right, I did misinterpret that. In my opinion it still cost him in the end since, as Brian pointed out above, the opportunity cost was much greater than the purchase. And that's not to say how one should spend their money, it's only to point out one side of the "getting money back" concept.

It's an interesting discussion since we spend money on jewelry for our wives and girlfriends, kissing it goodbye and only hoping it's appreciated by the recipient. But, with watches, we seem to endlessly discuss the economics of our purchases.
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Old 4 January 2020, 03:38 AM   #76
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Value retention was one of the reasons I bought a Rolex even if I have no real intention of ever selling it. But that is not unusual. I think about value retention with a lot of big purchases. My realtor always said, "You want the house everyone else wants."
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Old 4 January 2020, 03:38 AM   #77
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Yeah even my Dad sent me a message the other day about an article saying the S&P increased by 29% this year (he’s the one who told me to start investing instead of blowing it all on hookers). I only started in this ETF in September and all I can tell you is I’ve made like £5 off £2.5K lol (sure this is peanuts but just testing the water). Typically the day I put money in it started going down. Much like when I bought bitcoin :(

I’m in it for the long haul though and not looking to make a quick buck so all good :)

Edit: presumably your links are about the best performing stocks rather than just tracking the market? Sure but I doubt anyone picked all the best performing stocks. That’s like picking the winning lottery numbers or buying all the Paul Newman Daytona’s back when the cost a few hundred dollars and then waiting until 2019 to sell them all for hundreds of thousands!
His link doesn't work.....
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Old 4 January 2020, 03:40 AM   #78
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His link doesn't work.....


I never clicked it. Probably why I never made any money in the stock market :(
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Old 4 January 2020, 03:42 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by 037 View Post
If your money is tied up in a watch rather than making money on a true investment, you're probably losing. The amount you spent on the GMT in 2007 would have purchased about 200 shares of AMZN, which today would be worth around $360,000.

The concept of watches as any kind of investment is an odd one to me.
No argument there. So just tell me where to invest that will be the next Amazon?
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Old 4 January 2020, 03:42 AM   #80
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Edit: presumably your links are about the best performing stocks rather than just tracking the market? !
Correct it was an article not my personal experience.

The point is that there is an opportunity cost to money as a commodity.

Nothing is free, including the time to use money to make more money. When these questions surface every few hours, the answer is always, "when do you plan to sell"? Unless (and usually never does) a person has an answer to this question, it is just a facade.

Otherwise "value retention" is just rationalization for placing money into a non-performing asset with the "hope" that you might get it back someday.

Hope has never been a viable investment strategy.

Good luck.
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Old 4 January 2020, 03:44 AM   #81
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No argument there. So just tell me where to invest that will be the next Amazon?
Much like deciding what piece of jewelry to buy, you need to do your homework.
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Old 4 January 2020, 03:46 AM   #82
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No argument there. So just tell me where to invest that will be the next Amazon?
Ha, no idea. I leave that to my financial advisor.

Maybe since Rolex isn't a publicly traded company, buying watches is the closest anyone can get to buying their stock.
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Old 4 January 2020, 03:47 AM   #83
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In the last 15 or so years of collecting I would anticipate losing a little money buying new at discount, wearing for a few years and flipping. Average was probably 10-15%. Just figured that was the true cost of ownership and the value was MUCH better than when I was into expensive cars.

However, thanks to boom in secondary prices in recent years I would be up in total. Not near what I would have gotten from a real investment but actually made for one of my cheapest hobbies (compared to cars and racing).
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Old 4 January 2020, 03:56 AM   #84
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You will lose if you sell the a dealer (most likely depending on the model). Otherwise private sale through a forum like this one in my experience I've broken even or made money.

1) Purchased a NOS white dial milguass from my local AD in 2018. Wore it for a year and sold it for the same price I purchased it for.

2) Bought a 14060 in 2017. Sold it last month for a $1200 profit.

That said, I've lost plenty on buying, enjoying, then selling (mordern) Omega, Tudor, and Breitling.

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Old 4 January 2020, 03:58 AM   #85
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In the last 15 or so years of collecting I would anticipate losing a little money buying new at discount, wearing for a few years and flipping. Average was probably 10-15%. Just figured that was the true cost of ownership and the value was MUCH better than when I was into expensive cars.

However, thanks to boom in secondary prices in recent years I would be up in total. Not near what I would have gotten from a real investment but actually made for one of my cheapest hobbies (compared to cars and racing).
Exactly. Very well put sir.
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Old 4 January 2020, 05:48 AM   #86
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Most of the times that I have sold watches I have later regretted it. I usually would sell a watch to buy something new. I have sold a few for less than I paid but for the most part not so much. I made money selling other brands than Rolex as well. Sinn EZM1, Anniversary model Omega Seamaster, Omega Ploprof, and a couple of others were a few that came out ahead. I owned them long enough that they were either discontinued, were limited editions or went up significantly in price. The best ones are Rolex models that are popular and had short production runs.
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Old 4 January 2020, 06:26 AM   #87
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There does seem to be a lot of 'holier than thou' sentiment where people say watches are not to be thought of in terms of resale, and 'I've never bought a watch with the caveat that I might have to sell it' etc. etc. How nice for the super-rich who can drop tens of thousands on luxury items without considering resale value. Some of us mere mortals may need to sell watches to acquire other watches, rather than keep adding, or may have to sell to finance other life costs that may or may not have been predicted. Going into watch collecting knowing that Rolex and PP would hold value well, and some pieces may result in a profit is a big part of justifying the expense, so it is really not the same as luxury money gone for good on necklaces, earrings or other jewellery. Many of us would not spend large sums on watches unless they were a good bet financially AS WELL as being beautiful creations to treasure and enjoy.


He makes a good point, why be mortal?

Let’s all be immortal and enjoy the watch buying habits of the super rich!

Just bow and praise my lord baphomet...enjoy eternal life by drinking his life blood...

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Old 4 January 2020, 06:28 AM   #88
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I purchased an 116505/champagne dial in 2010 for £15K at a good discount.
Sold in 2018 to watch/finder for £16.4K.
Its the only Rolex I've ever sold and have regretted selling it ever since.
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Old 4 January 2020, 01:41 PM   #89
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you will not make money from this stuff. I know the hot sports models hold their value but it is not wise to sell a watch an ad selected just for you, if you value your relationship with them.
true that
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Old 18 January 2020, 10:24 AM   #90
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If your money is tied up in a watch rather than making money on a true investment, you're probably losing. The amount you spent on the GMT in 2007 would have purchased about 200 shares of AMZN, which today would be worth around $360,000.

The concept of watches as any kind of investment is an odd one to me.


Yeah but I’m 2007 nobody knew that Amazon was going to blow up so much.

I understand, watches are not investments, but saying investing in amazon is smarter AFTER we all saw it grow isn’t telling us much.

Tell us what to invest in now that you know will grow for sure and then we’ll compare a watch to that investment.
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