ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
23 February 2020, 02:32 PM | #31 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Brisbane
Watch: DSSD
Posts: 7,816
|
|
23 February 2020, 02:42 PM | #32 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Brisbane
Watch: DSSD
Posts: 7,816
|
Quote:
Some machines can take up to three or more oil changes before an epuilibrium and steady wear trends are achieved. Used oil analysis proves this all the time. There are three states of lubrication and it's not inconceivable that they all exist within a watch movement, with boundary lubrication being the most destructive just as it is with everything else. |
|
23 February 2020, 03:02 PM | #33 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Real Name: Doug
Location: United States
Watch: Skydweller
Posts: 176
|
In May I picked a new DJ41. Supposed to have a 70 hour reserve. I wear it every day, Monday through Friday, take it off Friday evening, but it would never make it all the way to Monday. Never really bothered but after maybe a month or so, it makes all the way through.
Same way with my wife’s DJ. |
23 February 2020, 03:17 PM | #34 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Real Name: Graham
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,449
|
Two of my rolexes displayed no break in 1 did. Went from +6 to about +3 after three months.
|
23 February 2020, 05:15 PM | #35 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Denmark
Posts: 26
|
My 114060 bought new a month ago is gaining 0.7-1 second per day without much fluctuations.
I have tracked it daily using the Twixt app. So no apparent break in in my measurements :) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
23 February 2020, 09:15 PM | #36 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2017
Real Name: Jesus
Location: Texas
Watch: 116234
Posts: 8,721
|
Do Our Rolex Watches "Break In"
Quote:
Please allow me to explain myself. I know what happens with a service, not all the details as I am no watchmaker, and will not pretend that I am one, but I’ve seen videos where watchmakers take the movement apart, put it in a machine to clean every part, replace the main spring and other parts if needed, apply oil very carefully and put it all back together. What I meant is this.... Cars are supposed to have an oil change every 3000 miles (old rule of thumb, I know some manufactures allow 5000 miles or more between oil changes now) after the engines are broken in (which happens BEFORE you buy the car off the lot). When you and the boys rebuild an engine at home, in the garage, part of the break in procedure is that you have to do an oil change almost right after you turn on the engine for the first time. Then you do another oil change after 200 miles. Then you do one after 500 miles. (Or something like that) Because as the engine BREAKS IN, you have to do frequent oil changes to get rid of the metal shavings produced by freshly machined parts working together again. After doing all of that, THEN you can return to the regular maintenance schedule of 3000 miles or whatever the manufacturer suggests. Back to watches now. Do we have to do that with watches during the “break in” period? WE DONT. Our little handy dandy Rolex manual doesn’t say “during the break in period, the watch will require a service after you wear it for a month. Then after 6 months. Then after a year. After all of those frequent services, the engine is broken in, then you can return to the suggested service interval of 10 years” That is what I meant. Maybe I worded it incorrectly. But I meant that we don’t have super reduced service intervals (oil changes if you want to call them that) to allow the movement to “break in” like when an engine is rebuilt by you and the boys at home. Right when you receive the watch, you are on the normal service schedule, kind of like when you receive a brand new car and don’t have to do the 200 mile oil change followed by the 500 mile oil change and blah blah blah |
|
23 February 2020, 09:21 PM | #37 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2017
Real Name: Jesus
Location: Texas
Watch: 116234
Posts: 8,721
|
Do Our Rolex Watches "Break In"
Quote:
Please allow me to explain myself. I know what happens with a service, not all the details as I am no watchmaker, and will not pretend that I am one, but I’ve seen videos where watchmakers take the movement apart, put it in a machine to clean every part, replace the main spring and other parts if needed, apply oil very carefully and put it all back together. What I meant is this.... Cars are supposed to have an oil change every 3000 miles (old rule of thumb, I know some manufactures allow 5000 miles or more between oil changes now) after the engines are broken in (which happens BEFORE you buy the car off the lot). When you and the boys rebuild an engine at home, in the garage, part of the break in procedure is that you have to do an oil change almost right after you turn on the engine for the first time. Then you do another oil change after 200 miles. Then you do one after 500 miles. (Or something like that) Because as the engine BREAKS IN, you have to do frequent oil changes to get rid of the metal shavings produced by freshly machined parts working together again. After doing all of that, THEN you can return to the regular maintenance schedule of 3000 miles or whatever the manufacturer suggests. Back to watches now. Do we have to do that with watches during the “break in” period? WE DONT. Our little handy dandy Rolex manual doesn’t say “during the break in period, the watch will require a service after you wear it for a month. Then after 6 months. Then after a year. After all of those frequent services, the engine is broken in, then you can return to the suggested service interval of 10 years” That is what I meant. Maybe I worded it incorrectly. But I meant that we don’t have super reduced service intervals (oil changes if you want to call them that) to allow the movement to “break in” like when an engine is rebuilt by you and the boys at home. Right when you receive the watch, you are on the normal service schedule, kind of like when you receive a brand new car and don’t have to do the 200 mile oil change followed by the 500 mile oil change and blah blah blah |
|
23 February 2020, 09:27 PM | #38 | |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Europe
Posts: 284
|
Quote:
You can see the metal shavings even on parts but only with a loop. With naked eye it will be hard to see. The watch movement seems like a transmission of a car rather than the engine...There is no piston and the system doesnt work with combustion,. |
|
23 February 2020, 09:27 PM | #39 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2017
Real Name: Jesus
Location: Texas
Watch: 116234
Posts: 8,721
|
Quote:
Thank you! That is what I meant above when I said that watches don’t have oil changes. I was referring specifically to the very frequent oil changes one has to do after rebuilding an engine, in order to “break it in.” Imagine that our watches took a couple of services until they broke in? They DONT. That is the difference that I was trying to highlight between an engine break in and a watch movement break in. |
|
23 February 2020, 09:40 PM | #40 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2017
Real Name: Jesus
Location: Texas
Watch: 116234
Posts: 8,721
|
Has anybody noticed that?
When you pick up a car from the dealership, brand new, the engine has already been broken in and you don’t have to worry about it. There is no break in AFTER you buy the car. However, before you bought the car, oil changes had to be done to break in the engine. When you buy a watch, there is a bit of a break in period as we have observed with the performance of our watches... Which to me means that the watches aren’t fully broken in when they meet the customer (as opposed to car engines) So why don’t we have to do a couple of quick services to break in the movement? (Again, Ford does this before the brand new car gets to the customer) Rolex doesn’t recommend that we do a service over a short period of time (200 miles on an engine during break in period) then one at a longer period of time (500 miles on an engine during break in time), before finally going to a regular service schedule (every 3000 miles or 5000 miles) That is a subtle, but huge difference between our watch movement breaking in and am engine breaking in |
23 February 2020, 09:44 PM | #41 | |
"TRF" Life Patron
Join Date: Jun 2005
Real Name: Peter
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng
Watch: ing you.
Posts: 52,266
|
Quote:
__________________
ICom Pro3 All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only. "The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever." Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again. www.mc0yad.club Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder |
|
23 February 2020, 09:45 PM | #42 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2017
Real Name: Jesus
Location: Texas
Watch: 116234
Posts: 8,721
|
Do Our Rolex Watches "Break In"
Quote:
No I’ve never seen a watch over haul live, EVER. But I’ve helped rebuild three engines in my life. Also, I’ve never rebuilt a transmission and don’t know how transmissions are broken in. Please see posts #39 and #40 where I try to explain myself in more detail as a reply to some of the condescending responses that I’ve received after my initial post. |
|
23 February 2020, 09:48 PM | #43 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2017
Real Name: Jesus
Location: Texas
Watch: 116234
Posts: 8,721
|
Quote:
Maybe you’re right. We should call it “precision settling time” or something else instead of “break in time.” Again, because we don’t have to perform several movement services so that the movement breaks in (as we have to do with an engine so that it breaks in) |
|
24 February 2020, 02:29 AM | #44 | |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Europe
Posts: 284
|
Quote:
I have watched the whole process of the overhaul. I also have watched the revision of the transmission (manual).. At both all parts are taken apart, cleaned and inspected for wear... My second car which I never drive, I had a transmission bearing failing and causing shake and noise while driving which happened 3 months ago..The car is immeculate and very well kept. It is 2006 (14 years old) have only 23000 miles on the clock and Im the first owner... I still chaged the transmission / transfer case and differential fluids with the recommended ones every 5 years since new.....When the transmission was opened I was worrying but it was so clean inside without much shavings. The condition of the transmission oil which was lastly changed in 2013 (as a preventative maintenance) was perfect. So we did not understand why the bearing failed...As a result, I got all bearings all seals, clutch set and the oil changed again once the transmission was opened...And it was perfect afterwards....Sometimes things happen for no reason at mechanics... The logic of transmission bearings is exactly the same as the bearings of some Rolex rotor axles....And, there is no need a break in as they may last only 1 year or 100 years... The only difference is the life and priority of the oil...An engine oil lasts 12 months...Transmission oil lasts 5 years...Watch oil lasts for good if it doesnt get dry... And even running dry will not ruin a watch immediately it will take years and years...But it only takes a few seconds to ruin your engine or transmission when running with no oil... Thats why it is better not to touch a working watch :) |
|
24 February 2020, 02:39 AM | #45 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2017
Real Name: Jesus
Location: Texas
Watch: 116234
Posts: 8,721
|
Quote:
Oh okay, that makes sense now. So I believe you in saying that watches are more like transmissions than engines then |
|
24 February 2020, 02:41 AM | #46 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: US
Watch: sub
Posts: 2,293
|
There certainly seems to be some kind of anecdotal evidence that there is a "break-in" period or something analogous. Enough members have mentioned it. When I got my almost unworn, but 10 year old sub back from service it was about +2.5/day. Now it's around +1/1.5/day depending on the week. There seems to be no real positional variation at all either.
|
24 February 2020, 02:57 AM | #47 | |
"TRF" Life Patron
Join Date: Jun 2005
Real Name: Peter
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng
Watch: ing you.
Posts: 52,266
|
Quote:
__________________
ICom Pro3 All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only. "The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever." Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again. www.mc0yad.club Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder |
|
24 February 2020, 03:08 AM | #48 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2017
Real Name: Jaime
Location: Here
Posts: 5,606
|
Quote:
|
|
24 February 2020, 03:38 AM | #49 |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Europe
Posts: 284
|
|
24 February 2020, 03:53 AM | #50 | |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Europe
Posts: 284
|
Quote:
And, even RSC might not be able to supply those parts on those discontinued models. You are 100% right, but I do not trust RSC, independent or any people, and unfortunately I am not a watchmaker with unlimited Rolex parts in stock, so I prefer not to touch a working watch. The other point is that considering that there are 30-40 years old unopened and working watches even on this forum, and my age (38)...I probably wont living that long to see worn parts at the movement...Even if I had kids (dont have) and would pass my watch to the next generation...Trust me the world is changing and I do not believe that there will be any watchmaker existed in the future..So who will service your mechanical watch in the future. Probably all mechanical wathes will go to trash in the future in anyway...So lets enjoy perfections without a human damage while we can... |
|
24 February 2020, 04:29 AM | #51 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2017
Real Name: Jesus
Location: Texas
Watch: 116234
Posts: 8,721
|
|
24 February 2020, 04:32 AM | #52 |
"TRF" Life Patron
Join Date: Jun 2005
Real Name: Peter
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng
Watch: ing you.
Posts: 52,266
|
There is no mainspring clutch all that happens when its fully wound it just slips in the spring-barrel.
__________________
ICom Pro3 All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only. "The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever." Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again. www.mc0yad.club Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder |
24 February 2020, 07:05 AM | #53 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Brisbane
Watch: DSSD
Posts: 7,816
|
Quote:
The power and torque curves are more linea and with a more gentle application that's essentially governed by the critical function of the Balance assembly. Everything down stream of the escapement places virtually no load on the internals unlike a car where everything is loaded from the tyres right back up through the drivetrain depending upon all the variables a car can encounter. Essentially the mechanical involved in the powertrain in a car with an ICE whether it is NA or forced induction has a much harder time of it in every respect. Of course, the extra power drain on a Chronograph when it is running will still reduce the effective power reserve. |
|
24 February 2020, 07:08 AM | #54 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Brisbane
Watch: DSSD
Posts: 7,816
|
|
24 February 2020, 07:13 AM | #55 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Brisbane
Watch: DSSD
Posts: 7,816
|
To be clear, the nature of the gears are for the most part, the most efficient type.
They're Spur gears which are uncommon in a car due to the fact that they're inherently very noisy and are usually only found on the reverse gear idler in a manual transmission which only comes into play when reverse is actually selected. |
24 February 2020, 07:20 AM | #56 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Brisbane
Watch: DSSD
Posts: 7,816
|
Quote:
I put it to you, the 30 year figure you hold out there is for the most part fantasy. Most watches which are worn daily will have stopped working well before then or been such poor timekeepers the owner would've long moved on to another source of the time. 40 years functioning properly is beyond belief. |
|
24 February 2020, 07:25 AM | #57 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Brisbane
Watch: DSSD
Posts: 7,816
|
Quote:
Applied with what is essentially a microscopic eyedropper as the quantities are so small. |
|
24 February 2020, 07:45 AM | #58 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Brisbane
Watch: DSSD
Posts: 7,816
|
Quote:
This is also a fallacy and is designed to give the impression of reduced servicing requirements thereby equating to reduced running costs. The reality is different. For example I have changed the oil in my "filled for life" manual transmission after the first 21,000 kms. This was due to experiencing some increasing gear roll-over niose at idle when hot and some increased gear whine in the lower gears. In this instance, a Used oil analysis showed the factory fill oil had apparently sheared down to 24 cst @ 40c from what theoretically ought to have been 34 cst @ 40c(according to a Virgin oil analysis of the service refill oil). In summary, all oils ultimately degrade for one reason or another or for a combination of reasons. Even if they're top shelf synthetics. Further. I have to ask, what is deemed to be the definition of "filled for life"???? |
|
24 February 2020, 07:53 AM | #59 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2017
Real Name: Jaime
Location: Here
Posts: 5,606
|
Quote:
|
|
24 February 2020, 07:55 AM | #60 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2017
Real Name: Jaime
Location: Here
Posts: 5,606
|
Quote:
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
*Banners
Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.