A Servicing Quandary

[Kingface66]

Hey Guys,
My '66 Sub has developed a loose crown over the last few months. It sets the hands without any problem, but the winding seems to not "catch" that well when turning. Some turns are fine, some seem as though it's not catching the teeth of the gears (if that makes sense). But, when pulled all the way out, it also jiggles a lot and is definitely looser than it should be.

Last week, a collector friend brought me to the new Analog Shift space (which is very cool!) up in midtown. There, I had the watch with me. The fellas there suggested bringing it to Central Watch in Grand Central Terminal. They also mentioned that there was possibility they might want to replace the crown, or at least the tube, etc...or out could be a simple adjustment. That sounded fine to me.

Quick background: When I bought the watch from Philippe Capurro, from Exotic Watches, a few years ago, it arrived with this card, claiming it was serviced by Rolex in 2013.

I just now received the estimate from Central Watch, which read, in part:

"...it requires a complete service which includes the following repairs:

* Complete disassembly of all parts of the movement
* All pivots and wheels are polished by hand
* Ultrasonic cleaning of movement
* Replace worn movement parts
* New mainspring
* New crystal
* Reseal watch
* New crown
* New case tube
* New gaskets
* Ultrasonic clean the case (No extra charge)

The cost of the repair will be $1350 plus tax

(By the way, the crystal on the watch now is purported to be original, which I would hate to replace).

Thoughts, or advice on how to proceed?

[Tools]

I think that Central Watch is overcharging you.

I would get an RSC or one of the very good TRF Techs, estimate before proceeding.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by Tools

I think that Central Watch is overcharging you.

I would get an RSC or one of the very good TRF Techs, estimate before proceeding.

Thanks, Larry! I always regret that my limited knowledge of the mechanical aspect of watch collecting...for which I am always trying to improve...is limited, making situations like this difficult to know how to proceed. It's a valuable piece, and I want to make sure it's not being harmed by lack of proper servicing, but, at the same time, I don't want to feel like a sucker.

I can certainly pop into RSC here in town and have a chat with them.

[janice&fred]

being that it's a '66 sub i would be very careful who i left it with as the dial and hands are delicate. as suggested i would only trust that piece to RWT here on the forum or another vintage specialist like L.A. Watchworks.

[htbilgic]

I also recommend LA watchworks. Great company.

[PVR]

You may not need a full service. It could be a loose detente screw, a failing stem or a host of other issues. Get it put onto a timing machine to check amplitude and beat errors. If its running well then all that needs to be addressed is the issue you mentioned which may also be a broken tooth on a gear.

No matter what it is, it shouldn't cost that much..

[Acascio]

I currently have a sub at ABC Watchwerks, Amazing customer service, and very honest!! I just got quoted a full servicing as well for $595 from ABC watchwerks. This isn't the first time I've heard of Central Watch overcharging.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by Acascio

I currently have a sub at ABC Watchwerks, Amazing customer service, and very honest!! I just got quoted a full servicing as well for $595 from ABC watchwerks. This isn't the first time I've heard of Central Watch overcharging.

Thanks for the input, Al! Much appreciated

[bzabodyn]

Originally Posted by htbilgic

I also recommend LA watchworks. Great company.

This - Edvi is great to work with and they are very transparent with what does/doesn't need to be done.

BZ

[jdmi32]

Ouch. I've had an old chronograph done by LA which needed more work done than yours and it cost less than that.

[Kingface66]

UPDATE:

Well, I picked up the Sub a little while ago from Central Watch. The experience was less than encouraging.
The woman at the front desk stated that the watch had never been serviced (I showed her the service card from Rolex...she'd never seen one before). She then told me that if I get just the crown and stem and tube repaired/replaced, they can't warranty the watch, which is why she "highly recommended" a complete service....to the tune of $1350 + tax.

She then mentioned that the crystal needs to be replaced, as there are "some scratches on it." When I mentioned that any scratches I've ever had on it were taken care of with some Polywatch.
She said, "Maybe we could polish it, but a new crystal would be better."
So, I asked her what they would replace it with.
"A new one."
So I said, "Do you know what type? This is the original crystal and I'd love to keep it on there. So, would it be a Rolex Service Crystal you'd put on?"
"What's a service crystal?"


Then she mentioned that there's some slight spidering on the dial.
I said I wouldn't really call that spidering, as, even under a loup, it's hard to make out.
"No, it is. But it's a very popular thing and people love it."
I said, "Well, I don't really love spider dials myself. I know some do. But, to me I just see a damaged dial"
"No, it's not. It's patina."

Finally, she said, "And the bezel is discolored."

That was when I asked for the watch back, and left.

Just for the sake of reference, here's the watch....with its discolored insert, and crazed spidering.

[vintagewaferthin]

Thats ridiculous! Its also very concerning to me because I was planning on bringing my 5500 AK there in the new year for a service. I would have never suspected it to cost that much! Keep us posted on what you do from here.

[JP Chestnut]

Makes you wonder what those analog shift guy's actually know about vintage.

[vintagewaferthin]

Ive heard great things about the service work Central Watch does, and then I've also heard stories like this that show them trying to pull the wool, so to speak. Makes me wonder where I should go for my Air King.

[Kingface66]

More than anything, it's just disappointing. I'm a relative novice when it comes to these watches, specifically, just Subs, and I fully appreciate that I have a lot more to learn. But, feeling like I'm the smartest one in the room when having an exchange like this, just doesn't seem right.
I can't help thinking what someone who knows nothing about watches is up against when it comes to servicing and accepting everything they're told...including the price.

[vintagewaferthin]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

More than anything, it's just disappointing. I'm a relative novice when it comes to these watches, specifically, just Subs, and I fully appreciate that I have a lot more to learn. But, feeling like I'm the smartest one in the room when having an exchange like this, just doesn't seem right.
I can't help thinking what someone who knows nothing about watches is up against when it comes to servicing and accepting everything they're told...including the price.

I agree. Ive only used them for an appraisal and a pressure test and I've found that while there are obviously very knowledgeable people that work behind the scenes in the actual shop, the people at the front end really don't seem to know all that much. They need more knowledgeable employees for sure.

[seattleal]

One thing to note - keeping the original crystal may seem like the thing to do - but it is a mistake! The acrylic crystals dry as they age, and eventually no longer seal correctly. The number one enemy of watches, and especially gilt tritium dials, is moisture. An old acrylic crystal will eventually allow humidity to penetrate the watch and degrade the dial. If he still has them MY sells t-19 replacement domes that are really good and look original. Or Edvi can manufacture a dome from a new acrylic crystal (as he's done on my 5513).

Lastly, send it to ABC or LA watchworks, wherever Edvi is - they do great work. Here are before and after of my gilt 5513-

[Assquatch]

+1 for abc watchworks. They will do right by you.
Also agree on the crystal. Acrylic becomes uv damaged over time and becomes brittle. Often times there are cracks under the bezel retaining ring that you can't see. As long as it passes a pressure test though you can feel relatively safe keeping the old one on.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by seattleal

One thing to note - keeping the original crystal may seem like the thing to do - but it is a mistake! The acrylic crystals dry as they age, and eventually no longer seal correctly. The number one enemy of watches, and especially gilt tritium dials, is moisture. An old acrylic crystal will eventually allow humidity to penetrate the watch and degrade the dial. If he still has them MY sells t-19 replacement domes that are really good and look original. Or Edvi can manufacture a dome from a new acrylic crystal (as he's done on my 5513).

Lastly, send it to ABC or LA watchworks, wherever Edvi is - they do great work. Here are before and after of my gilt 5513-

Totally hear you re. the original crystal. I wasn't stressing about it, as it passed the pressure test a few years ago, and I certainly don't wear it in the water. But, you're warning is totally valid, of course. And, in fact, I got a T-19 from MY for my 1680. It looks great, but it definitely has some slight optical warping on the edges. Way more than the original versions. But the price is right!

And yeah, thinking more and more about ABC/LA Watchworks!

[onthedial]

@Kingface66
Really great post and follow-up. The thorough documentation of your experience has the potential to be quite helpful for many who are just getting interested in vintage watch collecting wherein one of the first questions must be: where should I go to to service my watch? Again, great post. 👍
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Instagram: @onthedial

[Kingface66]

Just a quick follow-up.
Wound up sending the watch to LAWW, with Edvi handling all the logistics and keeping me apprised throughout. He was fantastic, and gave me peace of mind that I was doing the right thing with such an old watch. At the end of the day, the cost for service & parts...and FedEx insured overnight shipping both ways!...was less than the quote from Central Watch. Couldn't be happier.

And she's running like a dream

[herts9]

great ending of the story!

[datejust24]

That's an absolutely gorgeous piece Andy...she looks great..minus that horrid dial and insert......what a numbskull

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by datejust24

That's an absolutely gorgeous piece Andy...she looks great..minus that horrid dial and insert......what a numbskull

One of these days...which can't come soon enough!....I'm gonna save up enough for a WG surrounds service dial for it.

[swish77]

Stunning gilt Sub!! Central Watch did you a big favor by giving you horrible advice and a ridiculous estimate. If they hadn't, you might have let them service your watch and who knows what disaster might have happened. Great choice sending it to LAWW.

As a longtime New Yorker who is in Grand Central at least a couple of times a week, I've never been impressed by Central Watch. Once in a blue moon I've seen an interesting vintage piece there, but when I ask questions about it they never seem like they know what they're talking about. Sure, I've been staring at vintage watches for 30 years, but I want actual watch "specialists" to at least seem like they know more than I do about a piece they're trying to sell.

[datejust24]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

One of these days...which can't come soon enough!....I'm gonna save up enough for a WG surrounds service dial for it.

Ha! Seriously though...that's an absolutely gorgeous example

[RC2]

Well that's depressing from central watch.


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[Cantab]

Great to have a heads up based on actual experience, with no ulterior motive.

[Rebel]

[michael067]

The watchmaker at the Wynn Rolex Boutique advised me that there is some type of Rolex service center in Pennsylvania for vintage timepieces. I want to send my 71 GMT master there for service sometime this year. I would not trust anyone else with a vintage timepiece.