Any feedback on this FF 5513

[Andjwhite]

I’ve been offered the below watch. As a precaution I’m looking for some assistance from those with more experience. The crystal is a t39 and insert is a replacement. All else is original and intact. Thanks for any advice or thoughts on things to consider.







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[swish77]

I'd have a lot of questions, starting with asking for the beginning of the serial number. I'd also ask for a UV photo and photos of the movement and engravings between the lugs.

Otherwise, the case looks nice. It's raw, but fat. The dial/hands look pretty good.

I'd do some research on that insert. Can't figure out what I'm looking at. Is it blue?

[Dan S]

I like it at first glance. If you can verify that the dial is appropriate for the serial and get it for the right price, it could be a nice addition. To be safe, put zero value on the insert.

[Andjwhite]

The serial is a low 3xxxxxx.

I am told the insert came from Richard Bertoni (New York). I’m not sure who that is or if it holds any significance.

I will ask for UV photo, movement, and engraving photo. Appreciate it.

Thanks for the quick info guys. Anyone else have anything let me know.

[stmoore]

Originally Posted by swish77

I'd have a lot of questions, starting with asking for the beginning of the serial number. I'd also ask for a UV photo and photos of the movement and engravings between the lugs.

Otherwise, the case looks nice. It's raw, but fat. The dial/hands look pretty good.

I'd do some research on that insert. Can't figure out what I'm looking at. Is it blue?

Fake insert.
Zoom in on that lume.

[MrChamfers]

the insert kind of looks like a good mk3 to me.

[stmoore]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

the insert kind of looks like a good mk3 to me.

It’s trying to be an early mk3, but it’s not.

It should look like this.

[Dan S]

TBH, I didn't even look closely at the insert fonts. It gave me such an aftermarket vibe based on the texture, perfectly uniform fade, and the unmarked pearl hole, I just assumed it was fake.

[btinl]

The insert is an aftermarket one sold on Instagram. The lume plots look like they are missing a few chunks of the luminous material.

[baumare]

Originally Posted by btinl

The insert is an aftermarket one sold on Instagram. The lume plots look like they are missing a few chunks of the luminous material.

Ok Guys you make me nervous now, I didn't comment before because the OP insert look (to me) very similar to the one I have on my Red Sub, what you think?

IMG_0681 2.jpg

[stmoore]

Originally Posted by btinl

The insert is an aftermarket one sold on Instagram. The lume plots look like they are missing a few chunks of the luminous material.

You win! Correct. “Crown Art ...”

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by baumare

Ok Guys you make me nervous now, I didn't comment before because the OP insert look (to me) very similar to the one I have on my Red Sub, what you think?

Attachment 1199506

Yours is ok. Dont worry.

[Andjwhite]

Sounds like we have consensus the insert is non genuine.

Any other comments on the lume plots lacking luminous material?

Tomorrow I’ll be getting the additional pics... movement, timing machine reading, UV light on the dial, and engravings between the lugs. Thanks for all of the help so far.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Andjwhite

Any other comments on the lume plots lacking luminous material?

Tomorrow I’ll be getting the additional pics... movement, timing machine reading, UV light on the dial, and engravings between the lugs. Thanks for all of the help so far.

Hard to tell without more photos. That waffle texture on the tritium looks good, though, in the first batch of photos anyway.

[1665fan]

Offer 2k less and tell him to keep the insert if it’s aftermarket....

[Filipão]

Originally Posted by baumare

Ok Guys you make me nervous now, I didn't comment before because the OP insert look (to me) very similar to the one I have on my Red Sub, what you think?

Attachment 1199506

As Swaini3 above, you can sleep tight

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by 1665fan

Offer 2k less and tell him to keep the insert if it’s aftermarket....

What's the asking price? Did I miss it?

[Andjwhite]

The initial ask was 15,500 head only.

[Kingsking]

Originally Posted by stmoore

You win! Correct. “Crown Art ...”

I’ve been trying to add those guys in Instagram for 2 months now and they keep shutting me down , not sure how they get any business done if I can’t view the products they sell.

[1665fan]

Originally Posted by Kingsking

I’ve been trying to add those guys in Instagram for 2 months now and they keep shutting me down , not sure how they get any business done if I can’t view the products they sell.

They have no problem selling inserts for 3-500$ that then get passed on for 2-5000$........
Nobody should be buying these replica fakes....

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Andjwhite

The initial ask was 15,500 head only.

It's certainly not a bargain price with a worthless insert. If you are still considering it, at the very least you need to check that the case-back date and serial are consistent with a non-serif dial. If I were buying a watch from the kind of person who installs an insert like that, I would be dotting every "i" and crossing every "t".

[baumare]

Originally Posted by 1665fan

They have no problem selling inserts for 3-500$ that then get passed on for 2-5000$........
Nobody should be buying these replica fakes....

I just check them out on instagram and this is what you talking about

IMG_7385.jpg

Is that even legal?

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by 1665fan

They have no problem selling inserts for 3-500$ that then get passed on for 2-5000$........
Nobody should be buying these replica fakes....

Not promoting it but atleast he's honest and advertises them as aftermarket. Its the crooks that sell them as genuine that should be shot.

[swaini3]

Like this guy here.....

[1665fan]

Originally Posted by swaini3

Like this guy here.....

Such a shame, stuff like this ruins the hobby for everybody.......and is one reason when you go on the regular forum everybody is scared to buy a vintage piece....

[Andjwhite]

Additional pictures requested. The 5513 is very difficult to read between the lugs. Based on insert, price reduced to 14500.







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[Dan S]

Is there a bracelet? If not, the price is crazy IMO. Even with a bracelet, it seems quite high for a 5513 that essentially comes without an insert. On any given day, I think you can find dealers selling fully complete and original matte-dial 5513s for $15k with insert and bracelet. And this is the most common matte dial variant, nothing special.

[Andjwhite]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Is there a bracelet? If not, the price is crazy IMO. Even with a bracelet, it seems quite high for a 5513 that essentially comes without an insert. On any given day, I think you can find dealers selling fully complete and original matte-dial 5513s for $15k with insert and bracelet. And this is the most common matte dial variant, nothing special.

Much appreciated Dan. I was originally attracted to the watch for the untouched case. I really appreciate comments here from more experienced collectors that keep interested buyers grounded. It is not offered with a bracelet.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Andjwhite

Much appreciated Dan. I was originally attracted to the watch for the untouched case. I really appreciate comments here from more experienced collectors that keep interested buyers grounded. It is not offered with a bracelet.

I can see the appeal of the watch. But price matters, especially for a reference that is relatively common on the market. Nice and correct inserts and bracelets are available, but not cheap. You'd need to spend at least an extra $4k to make it complete. And of course there's the time and effort in finding and vetting those correct parts at reasonable prices.