Patek 5172G vs. Lange 1815 Chronograph

[MCMartiny]

I am mulling over acquiring a high-end manual wind chrono as my next and perhaps final piece. The contenders are:

1) Patek 5172G


2) Lange 1815 Chronograph WG Boutique Edition


3) Lange 1815 Chronograph WG Black Dial


All 3 are phenomenal watches, but at the moment I am leaning towards the Lange 1815 Boutique Edition as the movement and blue-on-white dial just looks so good. The 5172G is also very nice and perhaps a tat more casual than the 1815 but also a lot more expensive, plus I am still not entirely convinced by the "stepped" lugs and the lumed applied numerals.

The movement on the Lange wins out on finishing / aesthetics while the Patek movement is probably a bit more modern, precise and robust with its 28,800 vph beat and capped column wheel. How precise are Lange movements vs. Patek's -3/+2 sec. standard?

Value-wise conventional wisdom is that Patek as a stronger brand would keep better value longer term (not planning to ever sell, but this would be a sizeable investment and I would like to know there is a somewhat acceptable exit if it would ever be needed). However, looking at the second hand market performance of the 5170 that conventional wisdom seems to not hold for manual wind chronographs. Also, there is quite a difference in RRP in the 1815's favour, it seems to offer a lot of watch for the money compared to the 5172.

What would you do?

[Fat_ninja]

Not sure if you’ve seen the 5172G... it’s very causal and understated. Which you may or may not like. I personally would go with a 5170G

[GB-man]

Patek but I would wait until they hit secondary hard in a few years.

[Ichiran]

The Lange boutique edition is stunning. I couldn't take my eyes off it at the Lange Boutique... that white with blue accent is captivating.

[MCMartiny]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

Not sure if you’ve seen the 5172G... it’s very causal and understated. Which you may or may not like. I personally would go with a 5170G

Thanks Ninja. Yes, I have indeed seen the 5172 in the flesh and I quite like the causal element to it. My concerns are the "stepped" lugs and the applied lumed numerals which I am not too keen on as design choices.

The 5170G (black dial) is very nice and I really wanted to love it, but every time I try it on I am just left with the feeling that it is a bit too formal. Also, for purely aesthetic reasons I really like to have a tachymeter / pulsometer scale on a chronograph.

I am ideally looking for something "everyday" between formal and casual, so my current thinking is that the 1815 Boutique Ed. with a more casual strap (say blue calf with contrasting white or light blue stitches) might do the trick.

[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by MCMartiny

Thanks Ninja. Yes, I have indeed seen the 5172 in the flesh and I quite like the causal element to it. My concerns are the "stepped" lugs and the applied lumed numerals which I am not too keen on as design choices.

The 5170G (black dial) is very nice and I really wanted to love it, but every time I try it on I am just left with the feeling that it is a bit too formal. Also, for purely aesthetic reasons I really like to have a tachymeter / pulsometer scale on a chronograph.

I am ideally looking for something "everyday" between formal and casual, so my current thinking is that the 1815 Boutique Ed. with a more casual strap (say blue calf with contrasting white or light blue stitches) might do the trick.

I was pleasantly surprised on the 5172G casualness of the watch. What doesn’t work for me is the
1) larger size
2) cheap retro pushers, wife pointed this out.
3) syringe hands
4) Stepped lugs.


3 and 4 I could get that on the 5320G where it feels more at home. I felt the 5172G tried too hard... at that price level I’ve reaorted to getting a derivation of the 5270 at some point.

[Vipes]

I prefer the 5172 over the Lange. Patek wins with dial and case; Lange wins with movement. Lange watches take a brutal beating on the secondary market so buy pre owned in case you don’t love it and need to sell. The 39mm Datograph in platinum can go casual also. I think it is a better buy compared to the 1815.

[galtinuk]

I think from a movement finishing perspective the Lange is pretty hard to beat. Also it is a flyback which is nice.

On paper, though, I must admit I thought I would not like 5172. In the flesh, though, I like it much better than expected. Somehow the case did not wear as big as the numbers made me think. The syringe hands worked extremely well as did the lume.

From a value perspective obviously depends on the price buy at. However you will likely get a healthy discount on the Lange and pay near full for the Patek.

As mentioned by others the resale value on the 5170 is not particularly strong so would think the 5172 will be similar.

I think the choice depends on how much you value the Lange movement and finishing vs subjective visual preferences.

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[JR16]

I think you should pass on the 5172g as you are expressing too many reservations to drop $70k. Your gut seems to be telling you 1815 chrono- so would go w this (pre-owned if possible) or look at another PP chrono .


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[MCMartiny]

Originally Posted by galtinuk

I think from a movement finishing perspective the Lange is pretty hard to beat. Also it is a flyback which is nice.

(...)

I think the choice depends on how much you value the Lange movement and finishing vs subjective visual preferences.

Good point about the flyback functionality, definitely adds an extra technical point to the Lange movement.

The thing is that on subjective visual preference I am pretty much on the fence between the 1815 and the 5172 (both designs have pros and cons, see below) but when we add movement and lower RRP to the equation this pushes me somewhat towards Lange.

My fairly subjective assessment of the design of each model (keeping price/value, function and movement out of the equation):

Patek 5172G

Pros: Save for the lugs I think the PP has the more elegant case design (less "puck shape") and is a slightly more causal / moderne size (at 41mm). Also there is no cut off numerals on the dial. Overall the most elegant of the two.

Cons: Too many "vintage" elements: "Stepped" lugs look out of place vs. other design elements and "pump" pushers look out of place in a high-end piece like this. I am also not a fan of applied lumed numerals (works on the Aquanaut, but not here) and the dial is overall less clean (IMHO) and more flat to look at.

Lange 1815 Chrono

Pros: More (3D) depth due to two-level dial combined with clean monochromatic colour scheme and really nice crisp printed numerals. The case is more "masculine" with details in both polished and brushed WG and has the more modern and appropriate "square" pushers. Overall the most well-balanced and consistent design of the two.

Cons: Design (especially case) is more angular and less refined/elegant than the PP. Case is a bit hockey "puck shaped" which might wear less "flush" on the wrist. For casual wear the size of the case is a bit on the small side at 39.5mm and dial appears a lot smaller than the PP even taking the case size difference into account. There is also potential legibility issues with black dial version (which is the main reason I lean towards the Boutique version)

[benlee]

Can't really comment /judge on the 5172G since I have not yet seen it irl. But comparing the 5170s with the 1815s, I will choose the former despite the higher price. It's just more wearable and dial side /case shape just looks better and more refine, especially with applied indices making the dial pops.

The Lange 1815 has a visually nicer movement but the 5170 ( which is same as 5172 ) is not far behind and dial side the Lange is boring. I mean, you wear the watch,most of the time you will be looking at the dial side, less so the caseback.

As you can see, I might be slightly biased as I own the 5170P

[subtona]

5172 is exceptional.

[tiberiustime]

Boutique lange gets my vote, FWIW.


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[GeraldGentaFan]

5170G white dial. A beautiful watch that you can get at a very good price.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by GeraldGentaFan

5170G white dial. A beautiful watch that you can get at a very good price.

This.

Voted 1815 Boutique Edition among the choices given but if I wanted a manual chrono I would pick up a 5170G white dial. Would prefer a tach scale rather than the pulso but you can't have it all. Don't think it will drop much more either.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by galtinuk

I think from a movement finishing perspective the Lange is pretty hard to beat. Also it is a flyback which is nice.

From a value perspective obviously depends on the price buy at. However you will likely get a healthy discount on the Lange and pay near full for the Patek.

As mentioned by others the resale value on the 5170 is not particularly strong so would think the 5172 will be similar.

I think the choice depends on how much you value the Lange movement and finishing vs subjective visual preferences.

Lange are really trying hard to stop discounts, I have spoken to 3 AD’s about 3 different Lange’s and absolutely no discount was available on any of the pieces at any of the AD’s.

[galtinuk]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Lange are really trying hard to stop discounts, I have spoken to 3 AD’s about 3 different Lange’s and absolutely no discount was available on any of the pieces at any of the AD’s.

I think that is wise of them. They make a product second to none.

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[MCMartiny]

Originally Posted by ts3

This.

Voted 1815 Boutique Edition among the choices given but if I wanted a manual chrono I would pick up a 5170G white dial. Would prefer a tach scale rather than the pulso but you can't have it all. Don't think it will drop much more either.

Have once tried the 5170G white dial and it is a lovely watch but (like its black dial sibling) I felt it looked too formal with its applied Breguet numerals and alligator strap. Perhaps things would be different with a less formal strap...

I do not really care that much between pulso and tachymeter scale, both visually look nice and clearly identifies the watch as a chrono. I am aware that the actual function of the tachymeter scale is closely associated with e.g. motor sports, but to be frank I do not plan on actually using the scale just like the visual aesthetics a scale adds.

[mps354]

Of those 3 I like the black Lange the best.

[kentheevil]

5170p ! if not I'd get the the lange in black dial

[ap1]

Originally Posted by benlee

Can't really comment /judge on the 5172G since I have not yet seen it irl. But comparing the 5170s with the 1815s, I will choose the former despite the higher price. It's just more wearable and dial side /case shape just looks better and more refine, especially with applied indices making the dial pops.

The Lange 1815 has a visually nicer movement but the 5170 ( which is same as 5172 ) is not far behind and dial side the Lange is boring. I mean, you wear the watch,most of the time you will be looking at the dial side, less so the caseback.

As you can see, I might be slightly biased as I own the 5170P

I had 1815 Black Dial wg, I have 5170p. No contest

[soundserious]

Any of those will be terrific. A dress manual wind chronograph is basically a rite of passage. A brief and expensive one.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by GeraldGentaFan

5170G white dial. A beautiful watch that you can get at a very good price.

The 5170 line can be had for a bargain because it is flawed and overproduced imho.

The 5172 has nailed it (a white dial version would be fantastic) and is worthy of adding to the collection for the long term.

[galtinuk]

Originally Posted by subtona

The 5170 line can be had for a bargain because it is flawed and overproduced imho.



The 5172 has nailed it (a white dial version would be fantastic) and is worthy of adding to the collection for the long term.

Would be interesting to know why you think the 5170 line is flawed?

Personally, I think the early dials were awful, but the later breguet numeral dials are quite nice. The case size is also better in my view than the model that came before and after.

I have not tried the 5170 and 5172 on at the same time (only separately). Despite the larger size which I don't like, I may prefer the 5172 but it is pretty close. If the 5172 was smaller it would be the clear winner for me.

Regarding production, is there any reason to think the 5172 will produced in any smaller quantities than the 5170?



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[MCMartiny]

Originally Posted by soundserious

Any of those will be terrific. A dress manual wind chronograph is basically a rite of passage. A brief and expensive one.

Indeed

[MCMartiny]

Originally Posted by ap1

I had 1815 Black Dial wg, I have 5170p. No contest

What makes the Patek better (other than it being Platinum)?

[cascavel]

Even forgetting price, the clean lines and elegant, more classic size of the Lange appeal to me more than the Patek. The black dial version reminds me of a Bentley. It's the perfect foil for a casual outfit. Doesn't seem to suffer from a mechanical perspective, either.

[MCMartiny]

Originally Posted by cascavel

Even forgetting price, the clean lines and elegant, more classic size of the Lange appeal to me more than the Patek. The black dial version reminds me of a Bentley. It's the perfect foil for a casual outfit. Doesn't seem to suffer from a mechanical perspective, either.

Yes, surprised to see how well the two Lange models are holding up considering this is the Patek sub-forum. Clearly an aesthetically very balanced and successful design from the guys in Glashütte.

I also like the black dial version a lot but found that (a) the dial appeared smaller than its white sibling (optical illusion, I know) and (b) the hands seemed to "disappear" into the dial at certain angles / lights. Are anyone who actually own (or owned) the black dial 1815 Chrono able to comment on the legibility in day-to-day use?

[galtinuk]

Good point, you would expect way more favor for the Patek given the forum.

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[AK797]

1815 black for me, same league as the Dato.