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Old 15 June 2018, 06:02 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by juniorlawrence View Post
2.00 pounds is a round up, that is what they typically do. Not exact. For example, I am getting Boxing Gloves sent to my house tomorrow and the weight.....you guessed it 2.00 pounds...
There is no way on earth that the watch with accessories pictured in the advertisement, plus the large-ish 8x8x8 shipping box was <= 2 pounds. No chance. As I mentioned earlier, this package should have been at least 2lb 8oz and it seems pretty unbelievable that it'd get rounded down to 2 pounds.

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The watch itself is around 5.3 oz.
Yeah, I just measured 5.5 oz with one link removed.
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Old 15 June 2018, 06:11 AM   #122
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There is no way on earth that the watch with accessories pictured in the advertisement, plus the large-ish 8x8x8 box was <= 2 pounds. No chance. As I mentioned earlier, this package should have been at least 2lb 8oz and it seems pretty unbelievable that it'd get rounded down to 2 pounds.



Yeah, I just measured 5.5 oz with one link removed.
Things are not looking good for the seller now with this being said. If UPS system shows 2lbs the seller has some explaining to do
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Old 15 June 2018, 06:21 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by juniorlawrence View Post
2.00 pounds is a round up, that is what they typically do. Not exact. For example, I am getting Boxing Gloves sent to my house tomorrow and the weight.....you guessed it 2.00 pounds...
UPS may have systems in place that provide accurate weight information during the transportation process. Makes sense if someone ships on their account and states a lower total ship weight than is actually shipped. Would be good to get some corroborative info other than the '2.00lbs' approximation provided at the UPS Store.
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Old 15 June 2018, 06:22 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by NKflyer View Post
There is no way on earth that the watch with accessories pictured in the advertisement, plus the large-ish 8x8x8 shipping box was <= 2 pounds. No chance. As I mentioned earlier, this package should have been at least 2lb 8oz and it seems pretty unbelievable that it'd get rounded down to 2 pounds.



Yeah, I just measured 5.5 oz with one link removed.
Thanks KingSubTT and NKflyer for your help, and going out of your way to measure the weight of your own GMTs. It’s extremely helpful and I really appreciate it.

To clarify, the seller has sent me a copy of the original UPS receipt and the actual weight of the package is 1 lb 15.5 oz as recorded there. UPS rounded the weight to 2.00 lbs on the tracking but it appears the original weight is actually 1 lb 15.5 oz (1.969lbs).

I took the package to the UPS store near me today and weighed it, and it clocked in at 2.15lbs (2lbs 2.4oz), as seen in the image I linked earlier. I assume calibration explains the small discrepancy but if the watch were removed, the weight of the package should be lower than the original 1 lb 15.5 oz, not higher. At no point did the package weigh the suggested 2 lbs 8 oz.
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Old 15 June 2018, 06:25 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by helo008 View Post
Thanks KingSubTT and NKflyer for your help, and going out of your way to measure the weight of your own GMTs. It’s extremely helpful and I really appreciate it.

To clarify, the seller has sent me a copy of the original UPS receipt and the actual weight of the package is 1 lb 15.5 oz as recorded there. UPS rounded the weight to 2.00 lbs on the tracking but it appears the original weight is actually 1 lb 15.5 oz (1.969lbs)

I took the package to the UPS store near me today and weighed it, and it clocked in at 2.15lbs (2lbs 2.4oz). I assume calibration explains the small discrepancy it but if the watch were removed, the weight of the package should be lower than the original 1 lb 15.5 oz, not higher. At no point did the package weigh the suggested 2 lbs 8 oz.
Bingo
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Old 15 June 2018, 06:25 AM   #126
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I want to get your opinion since you have a lot of experience as a buyer/seller...

What happen if you wire 9K for a watch to a BUYER, and you received a box with no watch.

1. What is the BUYER course of action?
2. Who should be dealing with UPS? BUYER or SELLER
3. Is BUYER out of 9K if SELLER insurance and UPS denied the claim?

Just wondering how I can protect myself as a buyer or seller with private transaction.

In this case, the seller gave UPS a watch box and allowed UPS to package it. Hmmm, did the seller make sure the watch was put inside the package? did UPS forgot to put it in? did UPS take the package after SELLER left and remove the watch?
Personally I would do exactly as saying. Let the investigation conclude, then go from there. I just think it’s incredibly premature to do anything other than that first, as what if UPS refunds the money? People would be getting worked up for nothing. That’s the only reason I’ve been so vocal, is the people who were immediately saying ‘take action!’.


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I just took the time to read this whole thread... When the seller William21 said the package was 1lb 15.5oz at the UPS Store, that jumped off the page at me immediately. As somebody who ships alot of watches, I can tell you that figure is low. A SS ceramic sub or gmt in a small wave box with papers is almost exactly 2 pounds on its own. When you add the weight of the shipping box plus some padding & tape, you're easily talking at least 2 1/2 pounds (2lb 8oz).
I’m not going to lie, I got did this myself an hour ago too, just to see. I was surprised to see and verify what you’re claiming. 2lbs seems a little on the light side...this is getting interesting.

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Originally Posted by helo008 View Post
dmash, the package consisted of two pieces of bubble wrap, the OYSTER S paper sleeve, white crown-printed paper box, Green Rolex box, factory papers (service booklet and two booklets on the GMT II specifically), warranty card, extra link, polishing cloth, and a handwritten watch from seller thanking me for the transaction. Missing were the "pillow" the watch is strapped onto and the watch itself.
Thank you for responding and giving us pictures/taking the time to getting a verified weight.

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Things are not looking good for the seller now with this being said. If UPS system shows 2lbs the seller has some explaining to do
This is like a murder mystery playing out. Things seemed weird on buyer’s end, but he’s done a pretty decent job explaining himself, now things seem a bit weird on the seller’s end. This is crazy.
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Old 15 June 2018, 06:30 AM   #127
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UPS may have systems in place that provide accurate weight information during the transportation process. Makes sense if someone ships on their account and states a lower total ship weight than is actually shipped. Would be good to get some corroborative info other than the '2.00lbs' approximation provided at the UPS Store.
I know for a fact, USPS does. I can ship something with a prestated weight on the label, check into the USPS counter, and if the weigh it and see it’s underweight, they let it pass through. I don’t know if it’s at the final sorting house or the initial one....but this weight discrepancy is found out (abut 50% of the time) and I’ll get an invoice to my Paypl account days later for the difference in postage. The local postmaster verified he doesn’t process through the info to charge, so the weight is 100% checked somewhere along the way with USPS. UPS being private, I can’t say.
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Old 15 June 2018, 06:34 AM   #128
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The scales are calibrated. See the round green and white sticker on the photo provided by the OP. Unless the weight was calculated on a kitchen scale its gonna be pretty dead on. Certainly not ounces wrong.
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Old 15 June 2018, 06:38 AM   #129
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Did the SELLER check if the watch was inside the Rolex box?
Did someone in the household remove the watch without SELLER's knowledge before shipping it?
Did the SELLER forget to put the watch in before shipping it?
Can the SELLER check the house again?
Maybe SELLER is forgetful and not realizing the watch is sitting on the table right now?
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Old 15 June 2018, 06:41 AM   #130
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OP I’m sorry for your issue. Something seems off for sure. The 2 pound weight doesn’t seem right at all especially with the bulky boxes Rolex uses. I hope you all get this sorted out and whomever is wrong is brought to some sort of justice. With that being said, my biggest lesson learned is a lesson I knew before reading th thread. I will never wire anyone money for a purchase. Never
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Old 15 June 2018, 06:42 AM   #131
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Hello TRF--

Yes, I am the seller in this transaction. I recently listed my Rolex GMT Master II for sale after purchasing it in 2016 from a prominent seller on TRF. Helo008 and I exchanged several correspondences and spoke over the phone. Although he had not been on TRF for very long and had 0 posts previously, I felt comfortable after verifying his employment/educational status and identity. To be honest, I've participated in several transactions (primarily in person and via eBay) and this was my first transaction as seller on TRF.

The transaction moved forward and he processed a direct bank wire very quickly (thus, alleviating some concerns there). I utilized my local UPS Store and had them insure it for the watch's value. The counter staff did not see the watch but confirmed its make/model upon receipt. When I asked the franchisee owner if that was routine, she said that it was and is required to insure that amount. The box was taped, packaged and scanned on the spot. The weight was 1 lbs. 15.5 oz. I sent the tracking number immediately.

Unfortunately, after he mentioned that he would have his apartment building staff sign for it in case he wasn't there, I offered to meet halfway in person (i.e. Modesto). He did not think it was necessary and we agreed to move forward with shipping it. When I was contacted with images and a phone call that the watch was missing, I suggested that he contact local authorities ASAP (which he did). In fact, before I had a chance to speak with him and the Officer on the case, I contacted Emeryville Police Department directly myself, not knowing the Buyer personally and unsure if this could be fraudulent on that end. Shortly after that, I was able to jump on the phone with him and the officer assigned to the case. I subsequently filed a report with my local police department as well a claim with UPS.

I've maintained contact with him and am engaging UPS to investigate this immediately. After receiving advice from his attorney, he requested a full refund. I intend to let the process and investigation play out (both through PD for stolen property as well as UPS). I have also enlisted the services of an attorney as well. I will say, he has offered to be patient as the UPS claims process plays out, so that is greatly appreciated.

I am really hopeful that everything works out and UPS is on the hook. I probably won't engage back and forth beyond this point, but I appreciate the comments, suggestions, and empathy shared by TRF. I also posted a thread in case anyone has had any questionable experiences with the buyer in the past (hate to do it, but you just don't know). It's a very upsetting situation for me as it is for him.
UPS round it up to 2 lbs.

What if SELLER gave the watch to UPS to package it...and SELLER looked away and UPS removed the watch..and continue to package without the watch and weight it as 2lbs.

I would ask for video footage of SELLER at the UPS store. I think the truth lies with the SELLER right now.
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Old 15 June 2018, 06:47 AM   #132
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These locations have a lot of CCTV. The only way I can see of the seller being able to extricate himself from this situation is if there are images of the open Rolex box with the watch nestled inside. Otherwise I don't think there is any other explanation other than the watch was missing when weighed or there was something preventing the scales from giving an accurate weight.
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Old 15 June 2018, 06:54 AM   #133
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Old 15 June 2018, 07:02 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by helo008 View Post
However, upon receiving the package this morning, I opened it up to find everything but the watch and "pillow" it comes on--the box, warranty card, booklets, extra link, and even a handwritten note from the seller thanking me for the transaction were all there. The white box in particular was a little dirtier than in the photos from the original listing, looks like someone's dirty handprints were on it.
Despite the weight discrepancy, I still find it odd that the warranty card and a handwritten note were still there. If the seller were scamming you, he'd want the warranty card for more value and to prevent the serial from going bad. He also wouldn't want to provide his handwriting in case the authorities got involved. The dirty fingerprints on the white box are also curious.

I have no dog in this hunt, either, but I'm not getting an overwhelming feeling that either the buyer or seller are at fault. It sounds like it might have gone missing before or after it was shipped.

Although, this could also be one heck of a complex and well-thought-out scam, which then means the weight discrepancy actually does mean something.
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Old 15 June 2018, 07:08 AM   #135
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Despite the weight discrepancy, I still find it odd that the warranty card and a handwritten note were still there. If the seller were scamming you, he'd want the warranty card for more value and to prevent the serial from going bad. He also wouldn't want to provide his handwriting in case the authorities got involved. The dirty fingerprints on the white box are also curious.

I have no dog in this hunt, either, but I'm not getting an overwhelming feeling that either the buyer or seller are at fault. It sounds like it might have gone missing before or after it was shipped.

Although, this could also be one heck of a complex and well-thought-out scam, which then means the weight discrepancy actually does mean something.
Let's call in the expert
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Old 15 June 2018, 07:08 AM   #136
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Okay, but the other weird thing is that 1lb 15.5oz is still light, even without the watch. The empty rolex box, papers, and shipping box > 1lb 15.5oz. I don't know where this 1lb 15.5oz came from??

If we guesstimate the correct weight should have been 2lb 8oz minus 5.5oz for the missing watch = 2lb 2.5oz or 2.16 pounds.

The weight in the buyers photo is 2lb 2.4oz or 2.15 pounds. So that's right on.

How did the 1lb 15.5oz come about? I am not believing that one of the scales is inaccurate by 3 oz.
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Old 15 June 2018, 07:14 AM   #137
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UPS scales are very accurate.
What was the weight of the package upon receipt by you?
Does that equate to its weight upon receipt by them?
If less when you received it, UPS is screwed.
If same, seller is full of BS.
THIS ^, I shipped a custom knife and the difference in weight was the only thing that saved the day , item was never recovered but the insurance paid out.
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Old 15 June 2018, 07:15 AM   #138
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Let's call in the expert
lol... that's about where we're at.

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Okay, but the other weird thing is that 1lb 15.5oz is still light, even without the watch. The empty rolex box, papers, and shipping box > 1lb 15.5oz. I don't know where this 1lb 15.5oz came from??

If we guesstimate the correct weight should have been 2lb 8oz minus 5.5oz for the missing watch = 2lb 2.5oz or 2.16 pounds.

The weight in the buyers photo is 2lb 2.4oz or 2.15 pounds. So that's right on.

How did the 1lb 15.5oz come about? I am not believing that one of the scales is inaccurate by 3 oz.
The UPS Store worker could have had his or her finger under the scale to reduce the weight, knowing they'd swipe the watch once the patron left.

Hey, it's a mystery novel...
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Old 15 June 2018, 07:21 AM   #139
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The UPS Store worker could have had his or her finger under the scale to reduce the weight, knowing they'd swipe the watch once the patron left.

Hey, it's a mystery novel...
So it was the UPS worker in the back room with the box cutter (Cluedo ref)
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Old 15 June 2018, 07:22 AM   #140
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The UPS Store worker could have had his or her finger under the scale to reduce the weight, knowing they'd swipe the watch once the patron left.

Hey, it's a mystery novel...
That doesn't sound half as crazy as it should lol! UPS had to have accurately weighed this package at least one additional time while in transit. I think that's our smoking gun.
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Old 15 June 2018, 07:26 AM   #141
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Just a question that lingers for me as I re-read this entire thread.
OP, does the seller know of this thread?
He logged on today at 2:40 p.m.
If it were me, I would want to chime in and share more light into what transpired from my end.
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Old 15 June 2018, 07:32 AM   #142
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Just a question that lingers for me as I re-read this entire thread.
OP, does the seller know of this thread?
He logged on today at 2:40 p.m.
If it were me, I would want to chime in and share more light into what transpired from my end.
See post #55
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Old 15 June 2018, 07:33 AM   #143
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That doesn't sound half as crazy as it should lol! UPS had to have accurately weighed this package at least one additional time while in transit. I think that's our smoking gun.
If the scale was lifted and watch was swiped by the desk worker then it would show ~2 lbs at every weigh point. The hard part would be lifting the scale half a pound to compensate for the soon-to-be-missing watch.

But, I can totally see this being done by a pro or in a movie.

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Just a question that lingers for me as I re-read this entire thread.
OP, does the seller know of this thread?
He logged on today at 2:40 p.m.
If it were me, I would want to chime in and share more light into what transpired from my end.
The seller both responded here and started a thread:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...6&postcount=55
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=610349
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Old 15 June 2018, 07:33 AM   #144
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Just a question that lingers for me as I re-read this entire thread.
OP, does the seller know of this thread?
He logged on today at 2:40 p.m.
If it were me, I would want to chime in and share more light into what transpired from my end.
You didn;t read the entire thread. Seller posted one response. Think its page 2.
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Old 15 June 2018, 07:35 AM   #145
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You didn;t read the entire thread. Seller posted one response. Think its page 2.
Oops.
My apologies.
Good.
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Old 15 June 2018, 07:39 AM   #146
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If the scale was lifted and watch was swiped by the desk worker then it would show ~2 lbs at every weigh point. The hard part would be lifting the scale half a pound to compensate for the soon-to-be-missing watch.

But, I can totally see this being done by a pro or in a movie.
The desk worker lifted the scale a little too much. The seller got a receipt showing 1lb 15.5oz but the actual weight of the package without the watch was more like 2lb 2.5oz so the additional weigh points would show 2lb 2.5oz if this theory is correct. 3 oz is a notable amount in the world of overnight shipping.

To further play devils advocate... In the days before Parcel Pro got purchased by UPS, parcel pro customers were not allowed to tender the packages at UPS Stores. Seriously, the parcel pro insurance wasn't valid if you handed over the package at a UPS Store. There had to be a reason for that policy.

Also, someone should screenshot the TRF classified ad if this hasn't been done already. In case the photos disappear.
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Old 15 June 2018, 07:44 AM   #147
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The desk worker lifted the scale a little too much. The seller got a receipt showing 1lb 15.5oz but the actual weight of the package without the watch was more like 2lb 2.5oz so the additional weigh points would show 2lb 2.5oz if this theory is correct. 3 oz is a notable amount in the world of overnight shipping.

Also, someone should screenshot the TRF classified ad if this hasn't been done already. In case the photos disappear.
Good point. Perhaps there's something to this crazy hypothesis after all. Lifting the scale too much would make the final weight higher, which is what we're seeing -- assuming all weights provided have been accurate, of course.

Hmm...
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Old 15 June 2018, 07:48 AM   #148
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Good point. Perhaps there's something to this crazy hypothesis after all. Lifting the scale too much would make the final weight higher, which is what we're seeing -- assuming all weights provided have been accurate, of course.

Hmm...
We’re speculating harder in this thread than we do with Rolex supply/value in the main forum.
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Old 15 June 2018, 07:53 AM   #149
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We’re speculating harder in this thread than we do with Rolex supply/value in the main forum.
So true. Everyone loves a good mystery!
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Old 15 June 2018, 08:01 AM   #150
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I fail to see an innocent explanation - Someone opened it, and made off with the watch.
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