Some ideas of how not to be a victim...

[mrh1797]

Hello TRF...

I am a little concerned at the amount of issues recently with scammers and attempted scams on the forum. I had some free time today so i thought I would share this with everybody here. I apologze for the lenght but it is just a few ideas...feel free to add anything you deem appropriate!! This is far too good of a place with far too many good people to have one of us become another victim!!



I wanted to put up a checklist of things that I try to do to help lower the probability of being scammed. Although nothing is 100% guaranteed I believe that if you ask these questions and request this information you can lower the odds of being a victim.

I think this is appropriate as both a buyer and a seller. As sellers we have to understand that we are asking people to pay us large sums of money without having a clue to our identity, and once we receive the money it is our responsibility to send them what they paid for. It is important on the selling end that we honor these questions and not be annoyed that a potential buyer is performing his due diligence.

This is important information to obtain to have a positive transaction:

Buyers/Sellers previous transactions…are they verifiable and recent…Do some research here, ask for references, check previous feedback, don’t be afraid to contact previous people they have done deals with before finalizing sale.

Also how quick are they in responding to calls and emails, most scammers have every excuse in the book as to why they cant call or why it took two days to answer an e mail.

Will they give you a cell number? Very important question…EVERYBODY has a cell phone and should not hesitate in giving it if asked.

Request a phone call right away. I always ask them to call me at their earliest convenience…this to me is one of the most important aspects of the transaction. Legit sellers realize that communication is the key to selling. Scammers try to avoid this at all costs.

Do they call from a blocked number..this in my opinion is a potential red flag.

Are they willing to give a work number?

Where do they work?

Do they have a business card?

Do not be afraid to ask these questions…a legitimate seller will not hesitate to provide you with this information.

One of the first questions I ask with a seller that has little or no feedback or selling history is to give me a cell number, a work number, scan their business card and Drivers License (personal info other than name and address blacked out.) If I get hesitation here I walk, I don’t care how good of a deal I am walking away from.

If all these things check out, I then go to work on the internet to see if the info I receive is verifiable, we all know how to search names and addresses…DO NOT get lazy here. EVERYBODY has an internet fingerprint, if you cannot locate somebody online…ask them why not?? Remember, you are doing them a favor just as much as they are doing you a favor.

If all of these things check out I then try to get into the specifics of the watch…Recent photos are a must!! Ask for a specific photo of something you want to see…then ASK questions!!

Is watch complete?

Are you original owner?

Where did it come from?

Does it work?

Are there any problems no matter how minor?

Why are you selling?

What if I am not happy once I receive watch?

How is it being shipped?

Are you paying for shipping?

Is it insured?

If so what happens in case the watch is lost in transit?

If you address these things before they occur, you are prepared to handle them…remember an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!!

It has been so often discussed here that you “buy the seller” and that is so true!

I honestly believe that if you implement these steps into your buying/selling experience we can all lower the probability of becoming a victim.

Keep in mind that in most instances a watch scam is NOT charged as a crime, it is considered a civil matter between two parties. It is not as cut and dry as you think!! Do not rely on cops, DA's, FBI Agents, USPS Inspectors, or Atty Generals to come to the rescue!! Do your own homework and research, it is well worth it!!


Matt H.

[whcrowder]

Very thoughtful comments....Thank you!

[mrh1797]

Originally Posted by whcrowder

Very thoughtful comments....Thank you!

Thank you Billy

[tandrup]

Very good post - good checklist. I agree that it applies to both buyers and sellers. I have been wondering how to convince people that I am legit if I want to make my first sale here on TRF - the first one seems to be the hardest since logically you don't have any sales history at that point. This checklist gives a good starting point though to the type of information that I can and should provide potential buyers. Thanks for sharing.

Do any of you have any input on which payment method to use to add an additional layer of security to a transaction? Can you verify the seller/buyer easier if you use wire transfer for instance?

[mrh1797]

I prefer wires for ease of use, but my thoughts are that all the homework should of been done by the point of sale. I try to make it that I have dug so deep that I have no worry about the method of payment.

[rexsub]

Nice list. Everyone should agree to share their driver's license.

[1000ftSub]

[idk01]

Great list Matt, looks like you've covered pretty much all bases

[mrh1797]

Originally Posted by idk01

Great list Matt, looks like you've covered pretty much all bases

Thanks Dave..

[Mosco]

Matt - if your list saves one person from being defrauded, you have done your job!

[idk01]

Originally Posted by mrh1797

Thanks Dave..

Any time

Originally Posted by Mosco

Matt - if your list saves one person from being defrauded, you have done your job!

Absolutely Greg!!!

[DadsWatch72]

You could also ask: Are you taking any prescription medication?

[springer]

Originally Posted by mosco

matt - if your list saves one person from being defrauded, you have done your job!

x2

[Tony2]

Funny enough I am still looking for a Rolex and will probably purchase from a seller here on TRF, after I saw how Mosco handled a situation where a watch was stolen via it's shipping company, that is another question I had added high up on my list........."What happens if lost in transit and me the buyer does not receive".

I don't know how many sellers would handle the same way as Mosco but must say his stance has earned some of my respect and I have never even spoken to the guy!

Tony2

[lavaman]

Can we make this "sticky" ?

[RebreatherDiver]

nice list, Matt!

[mrh1797]

Originally Posted by Tony2

Funny enough I am still looking for a Rolex and will probably purchase from a seller here on TRF, after I saw how Mosco handled a situation where a watch was stolen via it's shipping company, that is another question I had added high up on my list........."What happens if lost in transit and me the buyer does not receive".

I don't know how many sellers would handle the same way as Mosco but must say his stance has earned some of my respect and I have never even spoken to the guy!

Tony2

Trust me you wont find a more honorable man then Greg (Mosco)!! As good as they come!! I definitely agree!!

[swatty]

Great post Matt

[mrh1797]

Originally Posted by swatty

Great post Matt

Thank you Peter!! I appreciate everyone's positive feedback.

Matt

[figbo]

Thank you Matt!

[brkanand]

Very useful info here.

[520Matt]

Great list--- If you had never sold a watch and wanted to sell one think about the questions you would answer-- ALL of THEM-- because you have nothing to hide!

[mrh1797]

Originally Posted by 520Matt

Great list--- If you had never sold a watch and wanted to sell one think about the questions you would answer-- ALL of THEM-- because you have nothing to hide!

Absolutely Matt!!

Good name by the way...

[joeychitwood]

Excellent thread, Matt. Your phone advice the morning I realized I had been scammed propelled me into action which ultimately resulted in the recovery of my watches and cash. Had I done as you suggest in this thread, I would never have done the deal with TheRolex88.

I would add that one should review the posts of a potential seller, looking especially for 30-50 quick, easy "Nice watch!" posts adding up to a limit required for selling.

In my case, I eventually knew the name, address, cell phone number, employer, girlfriend, neighbors, criminal background and previous employment and address histories of the scammer, but had he told the cops to buzz off, he could have potentially kept my cash and watches, forcing me to sue him civilly or pay him a visit personally.

I think it is crucial that we somehow find a way to devise a legally enforceable sales contract between buyer and seller here on TRF, the breaking of which would result in certain criminal charges. As it is now, that lack of a contract is a legal gray area which makes it tough for any prosecutor to level charges against a scammer.

I also think it would be a good idea to post this thread in the General Discussion forum, as your guidelines should be read by everyone.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by Tony2

I don't know how many sellers would handle the same way as Mosco.

I think you'll find that there are people out there as honourable as Greg, but they are few and far between, unfortunately.

[mrh1797]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

Excellent thread, Matt. Your phone advice the morning I realized I had been scammed propelled me into action which ultimately resulted in the recovery of my watches and cash. Had I done as you suggest in this thread, I would never have done the deal with TheRolex88.

I would add that one should review the posts of a potential seller, looking especially for 30-50 quick, easy "Nice watch!" posts adding up to a limit required for selling.

In my case, I eventually knew the name, address, cell phone number, employer, girlfriend, neighbors, criminal background and previous employment and address histories of the scammer, but had he told the cops to buzz off, he could have potentially kept my cash and watches, forcing me to sue him civilly or pay him a visit personally.

I think it is crucial that we somehow find a way to devise a legally enforceable sales contract between buyer and seller here on TRF, the breaking of which would result in certain criminal charges. As it is now, that lack of a contract is a legal gray area which makes it tough for any prosecutor to level charges against a scammer.

I also think it would be a good idea to post this thread in the General Discussion forum, as your guidelines should be read by everyone.

Thanks Mark...I want to make sure it is cool with a moderator to move it...any mods reading this?? Can you let me know if you deem this worthy to be moved over?

Matt

[joeychitwood]

You could just link to it over at the General Discussion forum like I did with the scam thread. A lot of TRF members don't come to the WatchOut! forum, and this information is important to consider.

[mrh1797]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

You could just link to it over at the General Discussion forum like I did with the scam thread. A lot of TRF members don't come to the WatchOut! forum, and this information is important to consider.

It's posted now Mark!!

[spellman21]

excellent information, i will definitely be using it for my first purchase.