Dramatic 3861 Speedmaster price increases

[dchang81]

It's the gold pieces that give me pause, the upcharge is nuts.

[zengineer]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I’m not so sure. The 3861 movement would hold its own against the 4130 at twice the price.



And .. since I’m one mentioned it earlier, you can buy a movement on par with other haute horology in the 321 at the same price.



I agree it’s a difficult comparison, but IMHO the Speedmaster is undervalued next to the Daytona. YMMV

What isn't ?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by Goupax

The movement in the Navitimer is far superior to the Moonwatch, Omega is just squeezing as much as they can from their flagship model to please their shareholders since their limited edition gimmicks are not really working anymore

In what way is the Navitimer movement superior?

[AEC]

Before we criticize Omega for the going price of a Speedmaster Pro (or Rolex for a Daytona) let's consider that rarely do makers set prices, but instead markets set prices.

[Sandpit]

Originally Posted by AEC

Before we criticize Omega for the going price of a Speedmaster Pro (or Rolex for a Daytona) let's consider that rarely do makers set prices, but instead markets set prices.

And, in all fairness, the previous 1861 models always punched way way above their weight in terms of pricing / value.

Like many others, I am just more than happy I picked mine up a few years ago. I don't know I would pay today's prices for the new model.

[Goupax]

Originally Posted by Chester01

In what way is the Navitimer movement superior?

-Better power reserve (70h vs 50h)
-Higher beat frequency (28800 vph vs 21600)
-Date complication on the B01
-Column wheel chronograph with vertical clutch on the B01

[Calatrava r]

It's still a bargain at the current price. A lot of watch for the money.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by Goupax

The movement in the Navitimer is far superior to the Moonwatch, Omega is just squeezing as much as they can from their flagship model to please their shareholders since their limited edition gimmicks are not really working anymore

Maybe, but the Navitimer is about 3K more than the Omega.

[alllexandru]

Originally Posted by Goupax

-Better power reserve (70h vs 50h)
-Higher beat frequency (28800 vph vs 21600)
-Date complication on the B01
-Column wheel chronograph with vertical clutch on the B01

Is that all you got?
Did you read the specs of the 3861? ?
Date is a matter of taste and in 3861 case no date is true to origins
The C.Wheel vs Vertical Clutch again, some finesse but both do the job
There are watches in the 100k with 21600 bph, what we are talking about?

I admire the B01 but to come and say it is far superior is a no go against 3861, even 1861/1863 if we take the test of time

[fooey]

Originally Posted by brandrea

My honest opinion … they haven’t been charging enough for the Speedmaster … at least relative to the other famous chronograph. They are now playing catch up

Lol

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

[Alex_TA]

Originally Posted by Goupax

-Better power reserve (70h vs 50h)
-Higher beat frequency (28800 vph vs 21600)
-Date complication on the B01
-Column wheel chronograph with vertical clutch on the B01

Too much Internet forums


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by zengineer

What isn't ?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by fooey

Lol

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

Relative to the Daytona, why is a Speedmaster so cheap?

What makes the Daytona retail for 2x or 5x on the gray market?

They both started out at about the same price point back in the 60’s.

[gsg]

Originally Posted by Goupax

-Better power reserve (70h vs 50h)
-Higher beat frequency (28800 vph vs 21600)
-Date complication on the B01
-Column wheel chronograph with vertical clutch on the B01

And let's not forget, automatic vs hand wound.

[gsg]

Originally Posted by Alex_TA

Too much Internet forums


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Instead of dishing the prior response, would you care to state the facts as to why you think a 3861 is superior to a B01?

[dk65]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Relative to the Daytona, why is a Speedmaster so cheap?

What makes the Daytona retail for 2x or 5x on the gray market?

They both started out at about the same price point back in the 60’s.

Marketing. Rolex are masters at their craft. Kind of like Red Bull… they’re not a drinks company - they’re a marketing company.

I would not be surprised if Rolex sells five times more Daytonas, compared to Speedmasters sold by Omega.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by brandrea

My honest opinion … they haven’t been charging enough for the Speedmaster … at least relative to the other famous chronograph. They are now playing catch up

Completely agree with this. The 3861 is massively unappreciated by non-watch people

[sambb]

prefer speedy. daytona is small and hard to read - can get a PM speeedy also for less than gray daytona price

[Alex_TA]

Originally Posted by sambb

prefer speedy. daytona is small and hard to read - can get a PM speeedy also for less than gray daytona price

… which in turn is overpriced too. Seems to me wrong when gold Speedmaster costs more than JLC or IWC gold perpetual calendar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by Goupax

-Better power reserve (70h vs 50h)
-Higher beat frequency (28800 vph vs 21600)
-Date complication on the B01
-Column wheel chronograph with vertical clutch on the B01

Now, I prefer a date complication but there are those that argue that it’s not an advantage and clutters the dial. The higher beat frequency translates into what really? More accurate nope. The power reserve is a slight advantage, but only for those with a large collection. Most non WIS have one good watch if that and it’s more advertising than anything.

Now, you mention column wheel w/vertical clutch. But how exactly is that an advantage over the new 3861? The 3861 is a co-axial and to my knowledge more antimagnetic. In todays day and age (my 16610 gets magnetized about 2 times a month when I take the milk out of refrigerator) where everything has magnets that a real advantage. The 3861 is very accurate to METAS standards so the b01 not
More accurate. It’s also not clear that the b01 can stand up to the tests that NASA put the omega movements. Some good movements were tried and failed. So I appreciate your thoughts, but it’s not a convincing argument.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gsg]

Originally Posted by Chester01

The higher beat frequency translates into what really? More accurate nope.

"Accuracy is easier attained with a high-beat watch than it is with a slower-beating timepiece. A higher frequency provides a more stable rate which aids in smoothing out irregularities. A faster beat also brings several advantages: better isochronism and, better shock resistance."

https://deployant.com/ask-deployant-...eat-movements/

[gamingdoctor]

We're all paying absurd amounts of money for inferior technology, I don't care if it's a Daytona or Speedmaster. It's like comparing which horse drawn carriage is technologically superior.

Just enjoy the watch.

As far as the msrp increase, Omega can increase prices all they want but take a look at grey/used market to get a sense of where the price is really at.

[zengineer]

Originally Posted by dk65

Marketing. Rolex are masters at their craft. Kind of like Red Bull… they’re not a drinks company - they’re a marketing company.



I would not be surprised if Rolex sells five times more Daytonas, compared to Speedmasters sold by Omega.

I would wager it's the other way around. The marketing is about getting a higher price, Rolex isn't focused on volume.

Every Omega enthusiasts has a Speedmaster, few Rolex enthusiasts ha e a Daytona.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by gsg

"Accuracy is easier attained with a high-beat watch than it is with a slower-beating timepiece. A higher frequency provides a more stable rate which aids in smoothing out irregularities. A faster beat also brings several advantages: better isochronism and, better shock resistance."

https://deployant.com/ask-deployant-...eat-movements/

That’s nice, but the omega is METAS certified and not aware of any empirical comparisons that the B01 is more accurate in the lab or on the wrist and it’s possible given the nasa tests (robustness) and antimagnetic properties the 3186 more accurate. My 1861 on my speedy that I had a couple years back was like +4 and that’s within COSC spec.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rockmastermike]

thought this thread could use a little break in the drama before it gets too far gone

Except substitute Breitling for Rolex.....

[AEC]

Originally Posted by rockmastermike

thought this thread could use a little break in the drama before it gets too far gone

Except substitute Breitling for Rolex.....

[watchmavan]

Originally Posted by zengineer

I would wager it's the other way around. The marketing is about getting a higher price, Rolex isn't focused on volume.

Every Omega enthusiasts has a Speedmaster, few Rolex enthusiasts ha e a Daytona.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Get surprised then. Omega sells more Speedmaster Professional watches in one year than Rolex can (or choose to) make Daytona's.

[zengineer]

Originally Posted by watchmavan

Get surprised then. Omega sells more Speedmaster Professional watches in one year than Rolex can (or choose to) make Daytona's.

Yes...that's what I said.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[domi1]

speedmaster is new daytona🙉

[Guppydriver]

Originally Posted by Goupax

The actual bargain right now would be the B01 movement in the Navitimer, imo the Speedmaster is no longer the value proposition it once was just a couple of years ago.

Don't want to thread drift, but the ridiculous bargain right now would be the Black Bay Chrono with the (essentially) B01 movement.


Back on track....I don't see how a watch that retails for 20-30% more and lacks the same iconic past can be considered more of a value, even if the movement is proven superior. You should get something extra foe the money.