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Old 17 March 2020, 10:05 PM   #2371
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Originally Posted by mountainjogger View Post
Believe it nor not, we are starting to store our mail, deliveries and purchases for the suggested times before use.

My spouse and I are not alarmists. But we are in at risk groups so are trying to be careful.

Still have to go see some clients at high risk locations (front line medical providers). So we are going to try to strike a balance.

Glove up. And put arm out and say thanks for respecting my space.

This is a hard change.

Stay safe.
I was thinking the same ....i wondered if zapping stuff in the microwave for a few seconds would kill off the virus ....
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Old 17 March 2020, 10:12 PM   #2372
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The numbers of cases in Japan seem artificially low. That is because people are not being tested like say in South Korea. Why?

I've had two Japanese tell me in the last 24 hours that is because there is some misguided belief by those in power that the Tokyo Olympics are still a go. Like the show must go on. 70 % of Japanese want them cancelled or postponed. Lots of testing would mean lots of "cases." Therefore scaring people from coming. I think that is a done deal already.

An influx of people from around the world is the last thing that an island nation should do in a situation like this. Not that many nations would send their athletes to the Olympics or that people would attend in mass at the events and venues. No way.

Stay safe everyone. If I haven't said it lately love you all. Tell those that you do that you do.
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Old 17 March 2020, 10:15 PM   #2373
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Last night i was talking with a friend who is thinking way ahead about food shortages and came up with what would i do since i live alone if people start breaking into homes to steal food and supplies and medicine? I told him yes that is a worst case and maybe several months away. Ive read we dont have that much food in supply and if it was would be disrupted in some way it could get nasty....but im betting on a vaccine before that happens....lets just hope the vaccine come into play the sooner the better.
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Old 17 March 2020, 10:16 PM   #2374
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The numbers of cases in Japan seems artificially low. That is because people are not being tested like say in South Korea. Why?

I've had two Japanese tell me in the last 24 hours that is because there is some misguided belief by those in power that the Tokyo Olympics are still a go. Like the show must go on. 70 % of Japanese want them cancelled or postponed. Lots of testing would mean lots of "cases." Therefore scaring people from coming. I think that is a done deal already.

An influx of people from around the world is the last thing that an island nation should do in a situation like this. Not that many nations would send their athletes to the Olympics or that people would attend in mass at the events and venues.
It seems that the Olympic committee is the last group globally to realize how serious this outbreak is. I cannot understand how they could think that the Games could go on or that anyone would attend.
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Old 17 March 2020, 10:23 PM   #2375
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We are self isolating. With my underlying medical conditions, this virus would probably kill me, that may sound dramatic, but that is the way it is. I will go for walks early morning in the country, so that should be okay. I'm 62, I quite fancy living a little longer, if I have to isolate for a long while, then so be it, the cost of not doing it could be the loss of my life.

Younger members may look at this and think it is an over reaction, if I was younger and in good health, I may think the same. In my life, I have been shot at on a number of occasions, been blown up and had a hand grenade thrown at me, I am no shrinking violet. This scares me though, I am afraid of being unable to catch a breath until death takes me.
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Old 17 March 2020, 10:26 PM   #2376
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Originally Posted by daveathall View Post
We are self isolating. With my underlying medical conditions, this virus would probably kill me, that may sound dramatic, but that is the way it is. I will go for walks early morning in the country, so that should be okay. I'm 62, I quite fancy living a little longer, if I have to isolate for a long while, then so be it, the cost of not doing it could be the loss of my life.

Younger members may look at this and think it is an over reaction, if I was younger and in good health, I may think the same. In my life, I have been shot at on a number of occasions, been blown up and had a hand grenade thrown at me, I am no shrinking violet. This scares me though, I am afraid of being unable to catch a breath until death takes me.
Youíre doing what youíre supposed to be doing Dave. They havenít made the position official yet but the government will very soon be recommending everybody with chronic health problems self-isolate for 12 weeks.
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Old 17 March 2020, 10:31 PM   #2377
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Originally Posted by daveathall View Post
We are self isolating. With my underlying medical conditions, this virus would probably kill me, that may sound dramatic, but that is the way it is. I will go for walks early morning in the country, so that should be okay. I'm 62, I quite fancy living a little longer, if I have to isolate for a long while, then so be it, the cost of not doing it could be the loss of my life.

Younger members may look at this and think it is an over reaction, if I was younger and in good health, I may think the same. In my life, I have been shot at on a number of occasions, been blown up and had a hand grenade thrown at me, I am no shrinking violet. This scares me though, I am afraid of being unable to catch a breath until death takes me.
I'm younger that you by a stretch and I'm doing the same thing... I will eventually need to go out (begrudgingly) and get some items like milk, eggs etc.

I do not think you are over reacting, Dave. Be safe
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Old 17 March 2020, 10:33 PM   #2378
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It seems that the Olympic committee is the last group globally to realize how serious this outbreak is. I cannot understand how they could think that the Games could go on or that anyone would attend.
I'm a firm believer that the Olympics should be cancelled forever. They truly don't do much good for host countries like they are supposed to and it is just way to much money IMO. I think the world needs to get a little smarter as a whole.

If they still want to have them every 4 years maybe build a few permanent locations and rotate. I could be the the only one with this opinion, but so much money wasted and then the Olympic venues just crumble from disuse.
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Old 17 March 2020, 10:36 PM   #2379
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Originally Posted by daveathall View Post
We are self isolating. With my underlying medical conditions, this virus would probably kill me, that may sound dramatic, but that is the way it is. I will go for walks early morning in the country, so that should be okay. I'm 62, I quite fancy living a little longer, if I have to isolate for a long while, then so be it, the cost of not doing it could be the loss of my life.

Younger members may look at this and think it is an over reaction, if I was younger and in good health, I may think the same. In my life, I have been shot at on a number of occasions, been blown up and had a hand grenade thrown at me, I am no shrinking violet. This scares me though, I am afraid of being unable to catch a breath until death takes me.
Dave. Smart but you are going to be fine brother.

You're a stud. Fit to fight. It ain't your time.
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Old 17 March 2020, 10:41 PM   #2380
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the Coronavirus outbreak thread

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Individuals not willing to adjust their own behavior and habits, even drastically, and refusing to put up with what essentially are minor inconveniences is the difference between fighting the spread and it exploding.

Every day now we see where it's spreading like wildfire.

Not doing the necessary, small things and refusing to be inconvenienced until being forced to while awaiting a medical science "silver bullet" (There is still no vaccine against SARS or MERS) is just another way of saying "I'm too lazy", "I can't be bothered", "Someone else will figure something out".

Since late January, 2 months ago, when the first confirmed cases were identified and despite the border with China not being closed for weeks, Hong Kong immediately went into a state of medical awareness "emergency".

Not merely the government, what I'm really referring to is the average person in Hong Kong. They went through a lot during the SARS outbreak and haven't forgotten.

Almost immediately the masks went on, temperatures taken at the entrances of public and office buildings, the disinfecting every couple hours of public transport, handrails, elevator buttons by company and municipal workers, Home-officing, schools closing, activities cancelled..much of this was being done before the government "forced" the people to do it.

HKers have "been there, done that" and its taken seriously by almost everyone and, if numbers are any proof, this mentality and behavior works with this virus.

To reiterate: It works. There is proper response. The doom and gloom "we're all gonna die no matter what" are as annoying and ignorant as the "Sun will keep it away, take vitamin C" types who never paid any attention in a science class but are now "experts".

With 7.5 million, Hong Kong is the most vertical city in the world, more people living on top of one another above the 5th floor than anywhere else, which means congestion and sharing hallways and elevators. Its also the highest in terms of percentage of people using public transportation (98%). Hong Kong also shares a border with China, where at one point 50,000 people were crossing daily.

Looking at these geographics and reality of people living/traveling in close proximity to one another, if using what happened in mainland China or what's happening in Italy or Spain (or what will in the US) as a guide one would think Hong Kong's population would be somewhere between being decimated and totally wiped out after 2 months of active infections.

Yet and however, despite all these disadvantages after 2 months HK has had a grand total of only 157 cases and 4 deaths. Out of the last 57 cases, 50 have been inbound travelers, not people who are living in HK giving it to each other. Most cases in HK that have involved secondary infection have come from family members eating and living together, not someone who's gotten it mysteriously on the street.

Just today a major grocery store closed down immediately when it was found someone who tested positive visited there. It will be disinfected completely today, and will open again only in 3 days after the exposed "shelf life" of the virus on a hard metal surface.

Businesses temporarily closing, people losing money, inconveniences, hassles...if those are the focus then the fight will be lost and the price will be counted in the currency what we're seeing in Italy, Spain, etc etc.

Governments can decree all they want but if the people, and what I mean is individuals, can't be bothered to be hygienic and aware at all times to inhibit the spread to themselves or others, then decrees are useless. Italy even had to formally ban kissing anyone you know, or might know, or meet, or whatever. Behavior like that spreads it.

Stupidity, laziness, and the inability to learn some new habits even temporarily raise the price in terms of infections and lives. False bravado to "carry on as normal" (in order to avoid the personal responsibility of adjusting) as if the answer to a virus that can be transmitted by asymptomatic carriers is relatable to what one does in the face of terrorism is utterly misplaced, ignorant, and can hurt the innocent.

It's really our own choice. Science tells us what we must do as individuals to tame it...it's science but it ain't rocket science. If people can't even do the basics or are so entitled they choose to believe conspiracy theories or whatever else they use as an excuse not to be bothered, then prepare for the worst.

This morning HK just announced a mandatory 14-day quarantine for anyone (foreigner or HKer, signs of infection or not) entering Hong Kong from anywhere. This hurts businesses and it inconveniences people, but the attitude is "To win a war takes billions. To lose a war takes everything you got". In a congested city where it's almost impossible to achieve "social distancing' and hygiene and cleanliness and disinfection, they're still doing it and by any measure relative where they aren't doing them to the same scale, it works. HKers certainly never waited for a silver bullet.


I certainly applaud HKís success and your perspective as one who has traversed both HK & US for a while before the coronavirus appeared.

If you donít mind, letís extrapolate the wise initial HK moves vs. US (before Sunday March 15th) in terms of the long view.

How long can HK keep up with these measures? Probably as long as their infrastructure and resources are intact.

What would be the outcome if the other populations largely ignore similar public health measures? We will get many more infected - resulting in deaths and other bad outcomes.

IMHO it is the difference in the chart being used to depict ďflatten the curveĒ.



That chart has been used here in US to urge compliance with measures to block the spread. Iím sure weíve all seen it more than once.

The idea is to buy time to avoid overwhelming the hospitals and doctors/nurses/etc. Also, to buy time for an effective course of treatment or a vaccine to protect the uninflected.

I think everyone focused on the big red hump - but there is another consequence. Flattening the curve also elongates the blue tail.

Mondayís stock market meltdown was partially fueled by the realization this is a long term problem vs. a quick hit that could end with the Summer. (Yes, I know most here knew that but the general public might not have)

I added my own suggested x-axis timeline (not to scale) below.



Presuming we get an effective vaccine approved, and solve the logistics of inoculation of perhaps 150 million in the US, then this goes into 2021 in my opinion.

Why 150? Because we likely wonít get more than that percentage of US population to line up for hours to get a shot (or multiple shots).

The logistics will be different than the seasonal flu vaccination uptake. Thatís because we have a large pent-up demand coronavirus cohort that will rush for inoculation. The seasonal flu vaccination efforts usually stretch out over months.

My outlook isnít pessimistic, nor is it overly optimistic. But we should plan for long term.

I posted to suggest we will need maximum patience, stay connected and care for others, donít ďcatastrophizeĒ, and be mindful of trusted sources of information.


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Old 17 March 2020, 10:42 PM   #2381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveathall View Post
We are self isolating. With my underlying medical conditions, this virus would probably kill me, that may sound dramatic, but that is the way it is. I will go for walks early morning in the country, so that should be okay. I'm 62, I quite fancy living a little longer, if I have to isolate for a long while, then so be it, the cost of not doing it could be the loss of my life.

Younger members may look at this and think it is an over reaction, if I was younger and in good health, I may think the same. In my life, I have been shot at on a number of occasions, been blown up and had a hand grenade thrown at me, I am no shrinking violet. This scares me though, I am afraid of being unable to catch a breath until death takes me.
I for one do not. And I too fancy you have a long life ahead of you.

Do what you have to do and stay safe. I wish my father were taking the same precautions as you. He is 75 and can't walk across a room, on a good day, without losing his breath. Let alone 5 heart attacks.

It is actually his birthday today.

Stay safe and do what you have to do. Remember though that this is also a mental game. Try and get some exercise in. Eat healthy, and practice taking deep long breaths.
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Old 17 March 2020, 10:43 PM   #2382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveathall View Post
We are self isolating. With my underlying medical conditions, this virus would probably kill me, that may sound dramatic, but that is the way it is. I will go for walks early morning in the country, so that should be okay. I'm 62, I quite fancy living a little longer, if I have to isolate for a long while, then so be it, the cost of not doing it could be the loss of my life.

Younger members may look at this and think it is an over reaction, if I was younger and in good health, I may think the same. In my life, I have been shot at on a number of occasions, been blown up and had a hand grenade thrown at me, I am no shrinking violet. This scares me though, I am afraid of being unable to catch a breath until death takes me.
I donít think itís dramatic one bit. Iím asking my mom (78 with COPD) to do the exact same thing. Stay safe and well. Iíd quite fancy you living longer myself. I like you here. :-)
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Old 17 March 2020, 10:47 PM   #2383
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Brett reached out to me privately, and we came to a mutual understanding and respect.
Thank for making the effort Doc. I am a firm believer that people will not listen with an open mind unless they are treated with respect. And we really need people to listen right now.

And thank you for your contributions to this community as an educated and experienced health care professional.

And to the medical community who are putting themselves at risk to try to help the rest of us. Thank you for your service.

Stay safe Doc.
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Old 17 March 2020, 10:48 PM   #2384
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Dave. Smart but you are going to be fine brother.

You're a stud. Fit to fight. It ain't your time.
Could not have said it better myself.
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Old 17 March 2020, 10:51 PM   #2385
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It seems that the Olympic committee is the last group globally to realize how serious this outbreak is. I cannot understand how they could think that the Games could go on or that anyone would attend.


I noticed that too. They are likely over-optimistic. If they cancel, the financial consequences for organizers is fairly large. Itís not like they can make it up next year as other sports series can.


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Old 17 March 2020, 10:57 PM   #2386
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Last night i was talking with a friend who is thinking way ahead about food shortages and came up with what would i do since i live alone if people start breaking into homes to steal food and supplies and medicine? I told him yes that is a worst case and maybe several months away. Ive read we dont have that much food in supply and if it was would be disrupted in some way it could get nasty....but im betting on a vaccine before that happens....lets just hope the vaccine come into play the sooner the better.
I have read that we have a lot of food on hand. The difficulty is keeping up with people stocking up. Seriously would not spend time worrying about this.

Try to strike a balance. Get a reasonable amount of staples that keep - canned goods, etc and put them aside for a rainy day. And look out for your neighbor, and hopefully they will look out for you. Simple things, but they work.

Stay safe.
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Old 17 March 2020, 11:01 PM   #2387
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Youíre doing what youíre supposed to be doing Dave. They havenít made the position official yet but the government will very soon be recommending everybody with chronic health problems self-isolate for 12 weeks.
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Originally Posted by gnuyork View Post
I'm younger that you by a stretch and I'm doing the same thing... I will eventually need to go out (begrudgingly) and get some items like milk, eggs etc.

I do not think you are over reacting, Dave. Be safe
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Dave. Smart but you are going to be fine brother.

You're a stud. Fit to fight. It ain't your time.
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I for one do not. And I too fancy you have a long life ahead of you.

Do what you have to do and stay safe. I wish my father were taking the same precautions as you. He is 75 and can't walk across a room, on a good day, without losing his breath. Let alone 5 heart attacks.

It is actually his birthday today.

Stay safe and do what you have to do. Remember though that this is also a mental game. Try and get some exercise in. Eat healthy, and practice taking deep long breaths.
Quote:
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I donít think itís dramatic one bit. Iím asking my mom (78 with COPD) to do the exact same thing. Stay safe and well. Iíd quite fancy you living longer myself. I like you here. :-)
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Could not have said it better myself.
Thank you very, very much fellas, honestly, thats really nice. Really appreciate your very kind comments.
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Old 17 March 2020, 11:53 PM   #2388
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I have read that we have a lot of food on hand. The difficulty is keeping up with people stocking up. Seriously would not spend time worrying about this.

Try to strike a balance. Get a reasonable amount of staples that keep - canned goods, etc and put them aside for a rainy day. And look out for your neighbor, and hopefully they will look out for you. Simple things, but they work.

Stay safe.
and when this settles down you can donate all the extra stuff in your pantry to a local food charity/homeless shelter
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Old 18 March 2020, 12:01 AM   #2389
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I'm a firm believer that the Olympics should be cancelled forever. They truly don't do much good for host countries like they are supposed to and it is just way to much money IMO. I think the world needs to get a little smarter as a whole.

If they still want to have them every 4 years maybe build a few permanent locations and rotate. I could be the the only one with this opinion, but so much money wasted and then the Olympic venues just crumble from disuse.
I agree.....lots of wasted money/resources....we can do better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 77T View Post
I certainly applaud HKís success and your perspective as one who has traversed both HK & US for a while before the coronavirus appeared.

If you donít mind, letís extrapolate the wise initial HK moves vs. US (before Sunday March 15th) in terms of the long view.

How long can HK keep up with these measures? Probably as long as their infrastructure and resources are intact.

What would be the outcome if the other populations largely ignore similar public health measures? We will get many more infected - resulting in deaths and other bad outcomes.

IMHO it is the difference in the chart being used to depict ďflatten the curveĒ.



That chart has been used here in US to urge compliance with measures to block the spread. Iím sure weíve all seen it more than once.

The idea is to buy time to avoid overwhelming the hospitals and doctors/nurses/etc. Also, to buy time for an effective course of treatment or a vaccine to protect the uninflected.

I think everyone focused on the big red hump - but there is another consequence. Flattening the curve also elongates the blue tail.

Mondayís stock market meltdown was partially fueled by the realization this is a long term problem vs. a quick hit that could end with the Summer. (Yes, I know most here knew that but the general public might not have)

I added my own suggested x-axis timeline (not to scale) below.



Presuming we get an effective vaccine approved, and solve the logistics of inoculation of perhaps 150 million in the US, then this goes into 2021 in my opinion.

Why 150? Because we likely wonít get more than that percentage of US population to line up for hours to get a shot (or multiple shots).

The logistics will be different than the seasonal flu vaccination uptake. Thatís because we have a large pent-up demand coronavirus cohort that will rush for inoculation. The seasonal flu vaccination efforts usually stretch out over months.

My outlook isnít pessimistic, nor is it overly optimistic. But we should plan for long term.

I posted to suggest we will need maximum patience, stay connected and care for others, donít ďcatastrophizeĒ, and be mindful of trusted sources of information.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Wow...great chart..real perspective on the overall situation....thanks for sharing....
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Old 18 March 2020, 12:04 AM   #2390
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The numbers of cases in Japan seem artificially low. That is because people are not being tested like say in South Korea. Why?

I've had two Japanese tell me in the last 24 hours that is because there is some misguided belief by those in power that the Tokyo Olympics are still a go. Like the show must go on. 70 % of Japanese want them cancelled or postponed. Lots of testing would mean lots of "cases." Therefore scaring people from coming. I think that is a done deal already.

An influx of people from around the world is the last thing that an island nation should do in a situation like this. Not that many nations would send their athletes to the Olympics or that people would attend in mass at the events and venues. No way.
The word I got lately from a Japanese friend who was involved in securing our aircraft parking spot and acquiring tickets and VIP services for our aircraft and people at this summer' Olympics is that what's going on right now with these statements from Japanese leadership has to do with $$$$.

Depending on which principle party, the IOC or the Japanese government, calls it off or for a postponement affects whether funding that's already been in place gets refunded or not.

So right now it's a standoff between the IOC and Japan as to who blinks/announces first, which is why we'll probably only hear "the show must go on" statements up until they day one or the other does. I doubt that either entity at this point believe holding them is a good idea.
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Old 18 March 2020, 12:09 AM   #2391
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I'm a firm believer that the Olympics should be cancelled forever. They truly don't do much good for host countries like they are supposed to and it is just way to much money IMO. I think the world needs to get a little smarter as a whole.

If they still want to have them every 4 years maybe build a few permanent locations and rotate. I could be the the only one with this opinion, but so much money wasted and then the Olympic venues just crumble from disuse.
Forever, as in these Olympics or all Olympics in general? If it's all Olympics in general from here on out, cmon man....
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Old 18 March 2020, 12:21 AM   #2392
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What is it with emotional guys here driving away educated medical professionals from participating?

12Relojes, I and (I assure you) the vast majority of individuals reading this thread welcome your continued participation. Hopes and dreams and feelings are nice, but right now we need your educated context on this situation and it develops, and I would like to request that you reinvolve yourself here and not let a few emotional members chill the flow of information, the moderators have handled this. The rest of us want your input

Thank you.
Perhaps you misunderstand my ďemotionalĒ posts. I welcome Professional inputs, but I didnít appreciate someone belittling me for an opinion (hope prayer) that medical science will find a cure before the predicted hundreds of thousands die. I donít understand and maybe you can explain it to me; what is wrong with that? Is it scientifically improbable (impossible) and perhaps I am praying for a miracle, but I will continue to pray that happens.
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Old 18 March 2020, 12:24 AM   #2393
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It is worth reading this paper from the Imperial College COVID-19 response team. This paper came out early yesterday and drove some of the policy decisions we saw rolled out in the US and UK yesterday.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imp...16-03-2020.pdf

I read this last night, and it is a lot to take in. My takeaway was that unless we literally want to see the next Great Depression at some point we are going to have to accept that there will be some heightened risk of getting sick/dying over the next 12-18 months and go back to our lives. It is simply not sustainable to do what it would require to keep this completely 100% at bay. It would require 18 months of what the US is currently attempting to do for 15 days.

The solution may be to apply these extreme measures on a rolling basis, and regionally on an as-needed basis. We will also need to continue to come up with new and innovative ways to live our lives that reduces the rate of transmission.

Of course there is always the hope that we are able to innovate and come up with better ways to treat the disease. A vaccine is likely impossible until 2021.
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Old 18 March 2020, 12:27 AM   #2394
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Individuals not willing to adjust their own behavior and habits, even drastically, and refusing to put up with what essentially are minor inconveniences is the difference between fighting the spread and it exploding.

Every day now we see where it's spreading like wildfire.

Not doing the necessary, small things and refusing to be inconvenienced until being forced to while awaiting a medical science "silver bullet" (There is still no vaccine against SARS or MERS) is just another way of saying "I'm too lazy", "I can't be bothered", "Someone else will figure something out".

Since late January, 2 months ago, when the first confirmed cases were identified and despite the border with China not being closed for weeks, Hong Kong immediately went into a state of medical awareness "emergency".

Not merely the government, what I'm really referring to is the average person in Hong Kong. They went through a lot during the SARS outbreak and haven't forgotten.

Almost immediately the masks went on, temperatures taken at the entrances of public and office buildings, the disinfecting every couple hours of public transport, handrails, elevator buttons by company and municipal workers, Home-officing, schools closing, activities cancelled..much of this was being done before the government "forced" the people to do it.

HKers have "been there, done that" and its taken seriously by almost everyone and, if numbers are any proof, this mentality and behavior works with this virus.

To reiterate: It works. There is proper response. The doom and gloom "we're all gonna die no matter what" are as annoying and ignorant as the "Sun will keep it away, take vitamin C" types who never paid any attention in a science class but are now "experts".

With 7.5 million, Hong Kong is the most vertical city in the world, more people living on top of one another above the 5th floor than anywhere else, which means congestion and sharing hallways and elevators. Its also the highest in terms of percentage of people using public transportation (98%). Hong Kong also shares a border with China, where at one point 50,000 people were crossing daily.

Looking at these geographics and reality of people living/traveling in close proximity to one another, if using what happened in mainland China or what's happening in Italy or Spain (or what will in the US) as a guide one would think Hong Kong's population would be somewhere between being decimated and totally wiped out after 2 months of active infections.

Yet and however, despite all these disadvantages after 2 months HK has had a grand total of only 157 cases and 4 deaths. Out of the last 57 cases, 50 have been inbound travelers, not people who are living in HK giving it to each other. Most cases in HK that have involved secondary infection have come from family members eating and living together, not someone who's gotten it mysteriously on the street.

Just today a major grocery store closed down immediately when it was found someone who tested positive visited there. It will be disinfected completely today, and will open again only in 3 days after the exposed "shelf life" of the virus on a hard metal surface.

Businesses temporarily closing, people losing money, inconveniences, hassles...if those are the focus then the fight will be lost and the price will be counted in the currency what we're seeing in Italy, Spain, etc etc.

Governments can decree all they want but if the people, and what I mean is individuals, can't be bothered to be hygienic and aware at all times to inhibit the spread to themselves or others, then decrees are useless. Italy even had to formally ban kissing anyone you know, or might know, or meet, or whatever. Behavior like that spreads it.

Stupidity, laziness, and the inability to learn some new habits even temporarily raise the price in terms of infections and lives. False bravado to "carry on as normal" (in order to avoid the personal responsibility of adjusting) as if the answer to a virus that can be transmitted by asymptomatic carriers is relatable to what one does in the face of terrorism is utterly misplaced, ignorant, and can hurt the innocent.

It's really our own choice. Science tells us what we must do as individuals to tame it...it's science but it ain't rocket science. If people can't even do the basics or are so entitled they choose to believe conspiracy theories or whatever else they use as an excuse not to be bothered, then prepare for the worst.

This morning HK just announced a mandatory 14-day quarantine for anyone (foreigner or HKer, signs of infection or not) entering Hong Kong from anywhere. This hurts businesses and it inconveniences people, but the attitude is "To win a war takes billions. To lose a war takes everything you got". In a congested city where it's almost impossible to achieve "social distancing' and hygiene and cleanliness and disinfection, they're still doing it and by any measure relative where they aren't doing them to the same scale, it works. HKers certainly never waited for a silver bullet.
I must say even the optics of the response in HK is so impressive.

There are just swarms of well equipped personnel mitigating the virus with professional disinfecting equipment. It looks like something from a SiFi movie. I'm sure that instills much confidence with the public and energizes their support in stopping the spread of the virus.

I have yet to see that visual in the US. If there has been, forgive me, just haven't seen it.

Mostly just images of people buying up grocery stores because they don't know when the other shoe will drop in terms of stricter quarantines.

Right or wrong, that's why they are doing it. There isn't the optic of security and record of success such as what is happening in HK, so people in the west feel the rug is being pulled out from under them and they will be caught unprepared when the 100% lockdown happens which = panic. Telling people to calm down vs giving them a reason to is a big difference.
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Old 18 March 2020, 12:27 AM   #2395
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Paul, are you even paying attention to news or messaging from the local, state and fed government? It seems like you are late getting the info. Or not even listening.
Yeah, probably. I am taking all the precautions and at the same time trying to live my life as ďnormalĒ as possible. I have the required information I need to do that (take precautions) and try not to obsess over watching news broadcasts; I find it rather depressing. This is causing everyone a lot of anxiety. Iíll do my responsibility by taking the necessary steps, but choose not to be inundated with it 24/7. I donít consider this burying my head in the sand if you will, but we all deal with this in our own way. Iím sure if there was a major announcement I will find out, how can you not!? I will be glad when this is all over. Stay safe everyone.
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Old 18 March 2020, 12:29 AM   #2396
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I agree.....lots of wasted money/resources....we can do better.




Wow...great chart..real perspective on the overall situation....thanks for sharing....
Yeah, this is excellent! Excellent presentation of information I should say, it would be really excellent if we didn’t have anything at all to talk about on this thread!!!
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Old 18 March 2020, 12:39 AM   #2397
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Speaking of anxiety, I just bought a new watch and am trying to buy another. Why this intense need to buy? Now? I really think it is a method of coping. I find it kind of interesting... Anyone else dealing with the situation by purchasing (non-essential) things? Like I said, we all deal with this in our own way. Well, what the heck, if buying a new watch (or two, or three) makes me feel better then why not. Right?
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Old 18 March 2020, 12:43 AM   #2398
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Dave. Smart but you are going to be fine brother.

You're a stud. Fit to fight. It ain't your time.
X 100 Dave, you are a crusty old salt, you are definitely doing the right thing but you are going to be annoying us on here for years to come.
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Old 18 March 2020, 12:47 AM   #2399
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The word I got lately from a Japanese friend who was involved in securing our aircraft parking spot and acquiring tickets and VIP services for our aircraft and people at this summer' Olympics is that what's going on right now with these statements from Japanese leadership has to do with $$$$.

Depending on which principle party, the IOC or the Japanese government, calls it off or for a postponement affects whether funding that's already been in place gets refunded or not.

So right now it's a standoff between the IOC and Japan as to who blinks/announces first, which is why we'll probably only hear "the show must go on" statements up until they day one or the other does. I doubt that either entity at this point believe holding them is a good idea.
Interesting. Thank you. This explains it.
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Old 18 March 2020, 12:53 AM   #2400
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Kind of odd that airports are still running. I'm at one now and it's quiet but far from empty. How long do you guys think they will stay open?
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