Tourbillon for $1499? Looks too good to be true

[Desibaba]

I am sure the machinery and workmanship required to make a tourbillon is not exactly inexpensive? Is this company real or a scam?

https://eratimepieces.com/a/offers/f...sh-hc-checkout

[JR16]

The video looks interesting - would also
Like to know if anyone knows more


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[Collector2019]

https://youtu.be/H9q_3KjMRHQ

[locutus49]

I don't know. Lots of testimonials from unknown people but not much about how the movement is made, at least that I saw.

[Desibaba]

Originally Posted by Collector2019

https://youtu.be/H9q_3KjMRHQ

So it’s the real deal???

[Andad]

A Chinese Hangzhou HZ3360A movement?

The diamonds must push up the price?

[MILGAUSS88]

Oh, it's real.
Watch companies act like making a watch is still an art, but with today's technology it really is not that difficult. What part of a watch is not designed using a CAD program?
Drives me nuts when these watch companies advertise how difficult it is to make these complications. Really? It's all designed and made with computers and machines that are increasingly getting cheaper.

You can get a used Swiss movement Chinese assembled tourbillon for as little as $500.
Budget tourbillons have been around for 15 years.

You can get a Tag Heuer Tourbillon for $12k, a Ulysse Nardin for under $20k.
It use to be that you could not touch them for less than $100k.

[MichaelFlash]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

Oh, it's real.
Watch companies act like making a watch is still an art, but with today's technology it really is not that difficult. What part of a watch is not designed using a CAD program?
Drives me nuts when these watch companies advertise how difficult it is to make these complications. Really? It's all designed and made with computers and machines that are increasingly getting cheaper.

You can get a used Swiss movement Chinese assembled tourbillon for as little as $500.
Budget tourbillons have been around for 15 years.

You can get a Tag Heuer Tourbillon for $12k, a Ulysse Nardin for under $20k.
It use to be that you could not touch them for less than $100k.

Amazing.

[Cozmopak]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

Oh, it's real.
Watch companies act like making a watch is still an art, but with today's technology it really is not that difficult. What part of a watch is not designed using a CAD program?
Drives me nuts when these watch companies advertise how difficult it is to make these complications. Really? It's all designed and made with computers and machines that are increasingly getting cheaper.

You can get a used Swiss movement Chinese assembled tourbillon for as little as $500.
Budget tourbillons have been around for 15 years.

You can get a Tag Heuer Tourbillon for $12k, a Ulysse Nardin for under $20k.
It use to be that you could not touch them for less than $100k.

There’s a little more to it than that. Truly talented hand finishing is something that will always command a price premium because there will always be those who are willing to pay more for a hand finished piece.

[Pantheon]

I'm surprised so many WIS here haven't heard of this . It's basically a $300 Chinese tourbillon. You can get the watches with these for 500-600 bucks off aliexpress. Their accuracy is abysmal though they're typical +/- 45 seconds a day. They're pretty much throwaway watches.

Era timepieces are pretty much like Vincero, and MVMT. They're drop shipped overpriced junk. They all use the same marketing buzzwords such as;

Cutting out the middleman (the most ironic one)
The watch industry doesn't innovate
Affordable luxury (oxymoron)
The big brands control all the watchmakers
Same quality as the big names
We're the mavericks
Redefining the industry
Broke college kids can finally afford watches

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[MILGAUSS88]

Originally Posted by Cozmopak

There’s a little more to it than that. Truly talented hand finishing is something that will always command a price premium because there will always be those who are willing to pay more for a hand finished piece.

I understand that, I am only talking about the premium for "complications". A time only Patek starts at $15k, the cheapest Patek tourbillon (5101) is $325k MSRP. (Not second hand market)

There isn't an extra $300k in hand finishing on the Tourbillon version and, to manufacture the parts themselves is rather simple with the aid of computers.

If the watchmaker was hand lathing the parts I could see the additional cost, (maybe Dufor or Daniels did that, I don't know.) but imo, with today's technology watch companies are charging an excessive premium.

The other bugaboo of mine are dials. I keep hearing how difficult it is to produce enamel dials. Well, USA watch makers made millions of porcelain dials, I have owned thousands, and have yet to come across one that had a manufactures' flaw. But some how I am suppose to believe, after 150 years of advancement they can no longer produce enamel dials with out having to throw out half of them. I just don't believe it.

(I was in that Lange vs Journe discussion with you)

[rex311]

Wow, that is a shocker.


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[Cozmopak]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

I understand that, I am only talking about the premium for "complications". A time only Patek starts at $15k, the cheapest Patek tourbillon (5101) is $325k MSRP. (Not second hand market)

There isn't an extra $300k in hand finishing on the Tourbillon version and, to manufacture the parts themselves is rather simple with the aid of computers.

If the watchmaker was hand lathing the parts I could see the additional cost, (maybe Dufor or Daniels did that, I don't know.) but imo, with today's technology watch companies are charging an excessive premium.

The other bugaboo of mine are dials. I keep hearing how difficult it is to produce enamel dials. Well, USA watch makers made millions of porcelain dials, I have owned thousands, and have yet to come across one that had a manufactures' flaw. But some how I am suppose to believe, after 150 years of advancement they can no longer produce enamel dials with out having to throw out half of them. I just don't believe it.

(I was in that Lange vs Journe discussion with you)

I agree with you on that. A company like Patek with a huge industrial infrastructure charging such an immense premium for a complication that is undoubtedly machine produced is crazy. But some people have money to buy the prestige associated with a brand like Patek.

[Yaz]

Not so sure about what you are saying.
I know, and that's for sure, all watches that have the Geneva Hallmark (Poincon de Geneve) are hand polished. I know that Patek was part of this until they left to a "more higher" custom standard.
We all know that technology is part of the watch making process, we are not stupid, but I think that most of the complications are processed at the end with humans not machines.

You will see the difference in detail between a Patek or a Vacheron Constantin or a Lange & Sohne respect to this cheap tourbillon watch !

[Cozmopak]

Originally Posted by Yaz

Not so sure about what you are saying.
I know, and that's for sure, all watches that have the Geneva Hallmark (Poincon de Geneve) are hand polished. I know that Patek was part of this until they left to a "more higher" custom standard.
We all know that technology is part of the watch making process, we are not stupid, but I think that most of the complications are processed at the end with humans not machines.

You will see the difference in detail between a Patek or a Vacheron Constantin or a Lange & Sohne respect to this cheap tourbillon watch !

I think the conversation has evolved. The question now is what is the demonstrable difference between a 20k Nardin tourbillon and a 300k+ Patek tourbillon. I think all of us understand that these cheap tourbillon watches are a POS.

[Pantheon]

Originally Posted by Cozmopak

I think the conversation has evolved. The question now is what is the demonstrable difference between a 20k Nardin tourbillon and a 300k+ Patek tourbillon. I think all of us understand that these cheap tourbillon watches are a POS.

Jean-Claude Biver has shown us that a flying toubillon can be somewhat affordable thanks to the TAG Heuer O2T. At a price of 15k~ after discount its an all machine non hand finished tourbillon with an additional chronograph. Shows that the a tourbillon can be produced for less than 10k at cost.

The next question is hand finishing worth that extra 290k? probably not, but that's where the Patek tax came in. For the PP CEO to get mad at JCB shows that Patek is definitely overcharging but then again if you had that kind of brand power why wouldn't you.

Jean-Claude Biver I believe is the hero we need in this watch industry because he has no problems flipping the script upside down and challenge the status quo. He was able to revive BlancPain, turn around Hublot, influenced AP and Omega and etc. The man's contribution to the watch industry is legendary and so far the new Tags that have been coming out is a sign of good things to come and another line this man can add to his extraordinary resume.

[MILGAUSS88]

Lets rewind a little bit, I think my mind is a little faster than my mouth (or fingers as the case may be.)
In the past, the tourbillon was only produced, presumably due to difficulty, by the finest watch houses.
To me these lower priced tourbillons, especially the $500 versions, proves that it is no longer that difficult to produce complications. The additional cost for the complications, is imo, incredibly overpriced. I think Patek could crank out thousands if they wished.

My argument was in no way taking into consideration, finish. That is another discussion.

[Pantheon]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

Lets rewind a little bit, I think my mind is a little faster than my mouth (or fingers as the case may be.)
In the past, the tourbillon was only produced, presumably due to difficulty, by the finest watch houses.
To me these lower priced tourbillons, especially the $500 versions, proves that it is no longer that difficult to produce complications. The additional cost for the complications, is imo, incredibly overpriced. I think Patek could crank out thousands if they wished.

My argument was in no way taking into consideration, finish. That is another discussion.

These Chinese produced tourbillons are very easy to mass produce they're just very finicky as they are highly inaccurate and from what I've heard not very serviceable. They're kind of a crapshoot in quality and longevity but as their prices are they're pretty much throwaway watches. If you are just looking for the tourbillon aesthetic and don't care much for the time accuracy or the longevity its not a bad deal.

I'm not saying the highest tier of Maisons are producing the tourbillons worth their prices. I would say the Tag and Ulysses Nardin is a good alternative to the 100k+ tourbillons. The Tag Tourbillon is accurate to +/- 4 seconds per day and the brand isn't going anywhere vs a micro brand that can just go poof anyday.

[El Cascarrabias]

At 00:57 why did he put the instrument in his left nostril!?!

[bigfatpauli]

What's the big deal? Seagull has made a cheap-o toubillion for years. The fact that it is a troubillion shouldn't make it valuable, much like just because a painting is done in oil doesn't mean it's worth anything.

This is all just false hype and heard following. Tourbillions are typically expensive because of the finishing work that high-end companies reserve for their tourbillions.

If you care about pretending to be a millionaire, as the video puts it, I guess this is the watch for you.

[FTX I]

Interesting thread.

[Desibaba]

Originally Posted by FTX I

Interesting thread.

Im more confused now than I was before I even posted this thread

[whiteshields1830]

Looks like a cheaply made, mass produced Chinese Tourbillon - cant complain though for $1.5K - but too blingy for my taste

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by Desibaba

Im more confused now than I was before I even posted this thread

[Pantheon]

Originally Posted by Desibaba

Im more confused now than I was before I even posted this thread

To answer your question.

There are cheap and there are expensive tourbillons

Is it worth $1499? probably not
Is it a real tourbillon? Yes its a Chinese mass produced tourbillon that costs around $300
Is it a scam? No. An item is worth what a buyer is willing to pay.

The company is real and isn't not a scam. They just take money from suckers.
Their original prices were $799 and they're employing the same tactic as other drop shipping watch companies like MVMT who started at $59 then jacked up their prices after gaining traction. By the way their marketing slogan is "millionaire certified watch" which I really can't take seriously

[HogwldFLTR]

No to adding a piece of junk to my collection!!! Color it disposable!!! I really dislike the skelatized movement as well; it really looks cheap.

[Chrislec]

Oh please not this Era-stuff again....

I live in China and see those every day. Some are shit, some are decent. Era is clearly outsourcing these from Seagull, which is a decent flat tourbillon.

This is obviously a Seagull for the following reasons:

- The case is a standard Seagull case,
- The crown is the typical Seagull crown (Era didn't even bother to customize the crown )
- The clasp is the standard Seagull clasp
- The "tourbillon" looks the exact copy/paste of the cheapest "flat tourbillon" from Seagull (actually an open balance wheel). It's a pity because Seagull also makes beautiful 3-axis tourbillons, very decent, but not the same price tag for sure.
- Do we need more?

They retail here for around 1000usd equivalent, but can be found for 500.

In short about ERA: it's a scam.

[Chewbacca]

This is why I hate tourbillon watches.

Confusion and clutter.

[mongrelnomoad]

Wow. That video was so zeitgeist it hurt.

There's a global conspiracy in watch-making too?!? Who'd have thought!

[Topspin14m]

Here's a good video on them from Frederico and John (Delray Watch). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM9oFCpYvIU